Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 25, 2024, 10:23:47 AMUMHB and HSU were never in the SCAC so ... they were not kicked out, no.

That's true...but it's just semantics really.   End of the day......a bulk of former ASC members have taken their marbles elsewhere and left them out in the cold.

I wonder if those leaving the ASC contacted the SCAC or it was the reverse. There is a difference if the SCAC was the raider of the ASC vs the former ASC schools fleeing an unhappy ship. The result might be the same, but the bridge burning and bad feelings issue should be different.

If the SCAC raided the ASC I could see those 4 left behind being angry at the SCAC for leaving them high and dry. But if those former ASC schools came to the SCAC saying we don't like our situation and want out, that's different. That's not the SCAC's problem and indicative of unsolvable differences in the ASC.

Hard to be mad at the SCAC for being the recipient of teams that want to get away for whatever reason. And hard to be mad you got left behind when basically half the conference (or more) says we want out and we don't want you coming with us.

I don't know which it was, and I suspect it's not that binary regardless, but organizations like these are cooperative. And if you are not cooperating with a good chunk of the members, you have to face the consequences.

It wasn't a big deal when there wasn't another option in the area, it was the ASC or bust, but it is pretty telling to me that as soon as the SCAC presented a viable option, some of those ASC schools couldn't wait to jump ship.

Letourneau to SCAC in '25-26 announced:  https://x.com/scac_sports/status/1783557591408193800

Quote from: jknezek on April 25, 2024, 12:51:57 PMI wonder if those leaving the ASC contacted the SCAC or it was the reverse. There is a difference if the SCAC was the raider of the ASC vs the former ASC schools fleeing an unhappy ship. The result might be the same, but the bridge burning and bad feelings issue should be different.

If the SCAC raided the ASC I could see those 4 left behind being angry at the SCAC for leaving them high and dry. But if those former ASC schools came to the SCAC saying we don't like our situation and want out, that's different. That's not the SCAC's problem and indicative of unsolvable differences in the ASC.

Hard to be mad at the SCAC for being the recipient of teams that want to get away for whatever reason. And hard to be mad you got left behind when basically half the conference (or more) says we want out and we don't want you coming with us.

I don't know which it was, and I suspect it's not that binary regardless, but organizations like these are cooperative. And if you are not cooperating with a good chunk of the members, you have to face the consequences.

It wasn't a big deal when there wasn't another option in the area, it was the ASC or bust, but it is pretty telling to me that as soon as the SCAC presented a viable option, some of those ASC schools couldn't wait to jump ship.

This is when I do wish there was more media coverage of our schools so that we could if nothing else get some more educated guesses as to how this played out.

One thing I will say though, those left out (in this case the ASC) can always find a way to be mad no matter if the SCAC called or not. The departing members might very well have valid reason to dislike the remaining members but they also have to realize what they are doing to those remaining members by leaving them the way they are.

There's a lot of blame being passed around here, but little mention of the conference leadership that has basically sat on its hands while all this has been going on.

Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 25, 2024, 06:36:37 PMThere's a lot of blame being passed around here, but little mention of the conference leadership that has basically sat on its hands while all this has been going on.

100% this.

There is NO way the ACS commissioner was unaware of whatever greivances more than half the conference had.

Their inability to either fix the issue or prepare for life after mass defection  is astonishing.

Shame on the Baptist Four for not being willing to negotiate whatever the issues were.

My guess is that MANY knew this was coming. The ASC, the Baptist Four, and those that have departed.

And a year after the defections and not a single peep from the conference.

It's mind boggling.

Sounds like it's every man for himself at this point. 

This is multifaceted.

Sul Ross and UT-Dallas are bound by different dynamics. UTD has grown to an impressive stature in just 50 years. SRSU  has always been an outlier. They were in the TIAA with McMurry, AC, HPU and Tarleton State (now D1 FCS) back with its founding in 1976. Midwestern State (now D2) was in the TIAA in the late 1980's and 1990's.

McMurry has had a different administrative focus on athletics since its return from D2. Before the D2 years, McMurry was a "have" in most sports (except football)  and is a "have-not" (except cross country and track) since.

How many conference championships and post-season tourney appearances have U Ozarks, LeTU and Concordia had, relative to ETBU, UMHB and HSU? Since the death of Coach Tommy Boggs, Concordia Baseball has not been the same.

This is as much a mission and vision thing as most are not willing to acknowledge. The ASC was always a geographical necessity for D-3 intercollegiate athletics.

I certainly believe the "2026 and onward" SCAC champion will rarely see "the round of 16" in most sports, with the possible exception of baseball and softball, but there will be much parity among the programs.

If none of Baptist Four get invites to the SCAC...... my predictions are this:

HPU joins the Sooner Conference and the NAIA. Geographical rival with Wayland Baptist. Tex Wesleyan and SAGU aren't TOO far.

ETBU joins HPU in the NAIA's Sooner Conference. Close rivals will be La Christian and Texas college. SAGU and Tex Wesleyan aren't too far either. OR they make the jump to D2. Likely the LSC, but hopefully the Great American (which makes TONS more sense geographically).  LSC likely takes them with open arms.  GAC is a long shot. But worth the try.

Hardin Simmons heads to D2 and the LSC.

Mary Hardin Baylor goes FCS and either joins the Southland or the WAC.

Quote from: Mavchamp on April 25, 2024, 10:51:01 PMIf none of Baptist Four get invites to the SCAC...... my predictions are this:

HPU joins the Sooner Conference and the NAIA. Geographical rival with Wayland Baptist. Tex Wesleyan and SAGU aren't TOO far.

ETBU joins HPU in the NAIA's Sooner Conference. Close rivals will be La Christian and Texas college. SAGU and Tex Wesleyan aren't too far either. OR they make the jump to D2. Likely the LSC, but hopefully the Great American (which makes TONS more sense geographically).  LSC likely takes them with open arms.  GAC is a long shot. But worth the try.

Hardin Simmons heads to D2 and the LSC.

Mary Hardin Baylor goes FCS and either joins the Southland or the WAC.

Honestly, I think the LSC might take at least two of the four.  It would allow them to save a ton of travel by dropping Central Washington and Western Oregon.  The discussion of the ASC over on the D2 message boards is kind of interesting...

Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 25, 2024, 06:36:37 PMThere's a lot of blame being passed around here, but little mention of the conference leadership that has basically sat on its hands while all this has been going on.

Yes.  This 100%!!!!!!

Quote from: Etchglow on April 26, 2024, 09:00:00 AMHonestly, I think the LSC might take at least two of the four.  It would allow them to save a ton of travel by dropping Central Washington and Western Oregon.  The discussion of the ASC over on the D2 message boards is kind of interesting...

Can someone provide the link to the D2 message boards?  I am having trouble locating it.

There's a lot of the typical punching down on D3 on it, but it's on D2Football.com's forum:
https://www.d2football.com/forum/

Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 26, 2024, 10:02:40 AMThere's a lot of the typical punching down on D3 on it, but it's on D2Football.com's forum:
https://www.d2football.com/forum/

WOW! And I thought an occasional post on the D3Boards is insensitive. If you relied on that board, you would think that D3 Sports consists of a collection of dim non-athletic students who are suckers for allowing their college to scam them. Certainly not the people I recall populating the D3 ranks.

Quote from: TLU02SA on April 26, 2024, 10:46:07 AM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 26, 2024, 10:02:40 AMThere's a lot of the typical punching down on D3 on it, but it's on D2Football.com's forum:
https://www.d2football.com/forum/

WOW! And I thought an occasional post on the D3Boards is insensitive. If you relied on that board, you would think that D3 Sports consists of a collection of dim non-athletic students who are suckers for allowing their college to scam them. Certainly not the people I recall populating the D3 ranks.

It is interesting entertaining

I've tried to register to join the chat on D2 and I can't get a confirmation email to allow me to post.

They are certainly full of themselves on the LSC board.