I'll gladly call them out with my 14k+ followers on TikTok while my videos often get tens of thousands of views.

Quote from: Mavchamp on April 27, 2024, 05:10:03 PMI've tried to register to join the chat on D2 and I can't get a confirmation email to allow me to post.

They are certainly full of themselves on the LSC board.

I think that you will quickly appreciate the quality of the discussions and the virtuous attributes of the posters on D3boards.com. These boards have been the "glue" for the D3 community for more than a quarter century.

Thank you Pat Coleman.

I don't have a ton of interest in going D2 tbh & last time I talked with administration/athletic department folks they didn't either. As of now our recruiting and scholarship advantages in D3 are huge. Going D2 would mean leveling the playing field somewhat since every D2 program has the same number of scholarships. Obviously we'd still likely have the best facilities in the nation at that level and still in a good spot to recruit good talent but the point that was made to me was essentially either D3 or D1 would be the best fit for our program, and staying in D3 was the preferred route.

This was 4 or 5 years ago so obviously the conference shenanigans have changed some things, but D2 still doesn't feel all that appetizing. D2 has shrunk over the years and feels like a technical "jump up" in classifications without the prestige of D3 or D1 institutions (this is my two cents).

Obviously we need a conference and maybe we use the LSC as a temporary spring board to get to the FCS level, but unless admin/athletic dept views have changed drastically a permanent move to D2 doesn't feel likely. Hopefully we can find a way to stay in Division 3.

Curious what you mean by "scholarship advantages" given that the NCAA doesn't allow them for Division 3 athletes - they can receive academic or other non-athletic specific awards, but only in proportion to that of the general (non-athlete) student body.  Recruiting, facility advantages, sure. 

When my son's team played at UMHB in the 2021 playoffs, the players had gotten to know each other a bit through social media.  It was pretty much common knowledge that UMHB had players on "scholarship" for football. 

I agree DII is the middle ground between cost effective, no scholarship sports, and big name first class of DI.  DII has the cost of DI with the revenue of DIII. 

Quote from: BSCpanthers on April 28, 2024, 10:38:24 PMWhen my son's team played at UMHB in the 2021 playoffs, the players had gotten to know each other a bit through social media.  It was pretty much common knowledge that UMHB had players on "scholarship" for football. 

I agree DII is the middle ground between cost effective, no scholarship sports, and big name first class of DI.  DII has the cost of DI with the revenue of DIII. 

Not me over here tapping my nose after reading that sentence, and why no one wants to be in a D3 conference with UMHB and HSU. (Do I know for sure if it's true? No, of course not. But that's the prevailing thought from literally everyone I've talked to among D3 schools in Texas.)

Those are some pretty serious allegations to throw out against a school that has been under investigation by the NCAA recently about improper benefits. Are we also going to suggest that the NCAA knew that and loves us so much that they didn't say anything?

How hard did the NCAA look into it???  They seem to have a lot more worries than what is going on at a DIII school. 

It's all about accounting, if done correctly there is no way the NCAA would ever be able to find anything. 

There really is no point to this type of statement. If you are a D3 school, and you want an athlete, you can find a way to give him/her tuition and aid money if the school is willing. It's ridiculously easy to find reasons to give scholarship/aid money, you just can't say it's for athletics outright. And overall, your school has to balance athletes receiving scholarship/aid money with general population students receiving scholarship/aid money.

But on a case by case basis, if you want 10 or 15 football players, 5 soccer players, 2 basketball players, how hard is it to give them money? It's not. Especially when, in the case of football, you have 100-150 freshman coming to campus every year. If you have 150, you give 10 of them that you really want a really good deal on admission as completely allowable financial aid for one reason or another, and then 120 more get what the general student population gets, and 20 more get less than what the general population gets. You probably weren't recruiting those 20 anyway. On average, it all looks fine. It's easy peasy and the only way anyone would even bat an eye is if you audit every single incoming student's package for every possible reason and you turn up one that looks really, really funny. The NCAA is NOT in a position to do that.

These allegations are as likely true as they are likely common at many institutions. 15 or 20 years ago it was the "leadership scholarship" that the NCAA cracked down on. Now it's likely uncategorized student aid. It doesn't have to be full-rides, and it will never be categorized as athletic, and students who receive nice packages can say whatever they want, but it's unprovable. There isn't a tie to athletics, everything looks fine "on average", and it's completely within the rules, even if it's not what the rules were meant for.

I'm no expert, but I've seen enough things, especially lately as I'm of an age where my peer group's kids are being recruited, that it seems common to me. It's part of an institution's commitment to athletics. The more committed the institution, the better the packages for those key students and possibly the more key students allowed. But it's never "athletic scholarships" by definition, even if it is by action.

Quote from: BSCpanthers on April 28, 2024, 10:38:24 PMWhen my son's team played at UMHB in the 2021 playoffs, the players had gotten to know each other a bit through social media.  It was pretty much common knowledge that UMHB had players on "scholarship" for football. 

I agree DII is the middle ground between cost effective, no scholarship sports, and big name first class of DI.  DII has the cost of DI with the revenue of DIII. 

"Pretty much common knowledge" is not substantiated fact at all.

All schools, every year, have to submit their financial aid info to the NCAA.

Quote from: BSCpanthers on April 29, 2024, 11:56:43 AMHow hard did the NCAA look into it???  They seem to have a lot more worries than what is going on at a DIII school. 

It's all about accounting, if done correctly there is no way the NCAA would ever be able to find anything. 

Hard enough to be one of the only schools in history to have an NCAA championship vacated.

Quote from: jknezek on April 29, 2024, 12:06:06 PMThere really is no point to this type of statement. If you are a D3 school, and you want an athlete, you can find a way to give him/her tuition and aid money if the school is willing. It's ridiculously easy to find reasons to give scholarship/aid money, you just can't say it's for athletics outright. And overall, your school has to balance athletes receiving scholarship/aid money with general population students receiving scholarship/aid money.

But on a case by case basis, if you want 10 or 15 football players, 5 soccer players, 2 basketball players, how hard is it to give them money? It's not. Especially when, in the case of football, you have 100-150 freshman coming to campus every year. If you have 150, you give 10 of them that you really want a really good deal on admission as completely allowable financial aid for one reason or another, and then 120 more get what the general student population gets, and 20 more get less than what the general population gets. You probably weren't recruiting those 20 anyway. On average, it all looks fine. It's easy peasy and the only way anyone would even bat an eye is if you audit every single incoming student's package for every possible reason and you turn up one that looks really, really funny. The NCAA is NOT in a position to do that.

These allegations are as likely true as they are likely common at many institutions. 15 or 20 years ago it was the "leadership scholarship" that the NCAA cracked down on. Now it's likely uncategorized student aid. It doesn't have to be full-rides, and it will never be categorized as athletic, and students who receive nice packages can say whatever they want, but it's unprovable. There isn't a tie to athletics, everything looks fine "on average", and it's completely within the rules, even if it's not what the rules were meant for.

I'm no expert, but I've seen enough things, especially lately as I'm of an age where my peer group's kids are being recruited, that it seems common to me. It's part of an institution's commitment to athletics. The more committed the institution, the better the packages for those key students and possibly the more key students allowed. But it's never "athletic scholarships" by definition, even if it is by action.

I completely agree with this but the implication seemed to be that UMHB and HSU were doing something that others weren't and therefore creating an unfair advantage.

I know of plenty of kids being recruited by DIII programs who tell the coaches they need X more dollars and they end up getting those dollars and going to the school.  So, the kid may think it is an "athletic scholarship," and it may be that the coach is advocating for them to get the extra "aid" because they want them for their sports.  Nevertheless, in a world where 50%+ of the students are playing varsity sports, the line between general and athletics "recruiting" is pretty blurry.  If the kid called up an admissions officer and said I'm considering two different schools and I need X more dollars of aid to accept your school's offer, they probably wouldn't need the coach to make that happen if the ask was reasonable with all the discounting going on at enrollment-dependent schools. 

 I highly doubt UMHB is doing something others aren't. Now I know there are schools that care very little about athletics and won't do this, and I know there are schools that put a premium on athletics and, I suspect, do it regularly.

I'd definitely put UMHB in the cares a lot category. If the other ASC members were less interested, that's a mission and values mismatch and absolutely a valid reason to not be in the same conference.

Maybe I'm naive...but I have a hard time believing UMHB and HSU are doing what's being eluded to.

1.  The NCAA would have heard about it by now of so many of the former ASC schools were disgruntled about it.

2.  I can't imagine ETBU and HPU being "OK" with it considering they have been 2nd/3rd tier in the ASC behind both

3.  If you're going to go through all the trouble and expense of basically operating as a D2 or lower-level FCS school...then why not just move up and gain that prestige?  Most fans outside of the D3 world couldn't name who the D3 champion was in any sport.... most probably don't know who's D3 and who's NAIA.  They lilterally see little to no difference in the two.

I'm still hoping HPU and ETBU get late invitations to the SCAC.  Even if it's a long shot.

But it sounds like the other 2 are being left out in the cold under no uncertain terms.