Quote from: BaboNation on October 02, 2024, 02:47:21 PM

Quote from: Kuiper on October 02, 2024, 12:18:04 PM

Quote from: SKUD on October 02, 2024, 10:14:02 AMThe camera is on a structure where the frame of the structure blocks
The view.

Thanks.  I've seen something similar at a few other schools, although usually just blocking the extreme corners and not as far into the field as Tufts.  The camera could toggle back and forth between the left and right side of the post and still see field, so it actually obscured action on the field rather than just the run up for the corner kick.  It felt a little like the Farmers Insurance "winning view" commercial when the ball was on the left side of one goal and the right side of the other.

I've noticed a couple of schools are using technologically advanced solutions to this problem of not being able to see the angles well.  Pomona-Pitzer and UC Santa Cruz now use a drone to show overhead shots of all corner and free kicks (and P-P didn't even have the kind of extreme blind spots other schools have).  Others use a second camera behind the goal.  It may be that the FloSports contract is helping in some cases (for P-P for instance), which would help to justify the price.

I don't know about other conferences, but as a fan of the NEWMAC the first year of the contract under FloSports has been a net negative.  I swore I wouldn't pay for the service, but my addiction got the best of me so I signed up for the special NEWMAC all-sports package.

My experience:

The "technical difficulties" have increased dramatically - exponentially really.  And you never really know whether you should wait for the "we're working on it" to be resolved or restart the feed, which if you do so you've got a commercial to suffer through.

You really need to use the app, because the browser version is extra fluky and doesn't support IOS from what their CS told me.

Not as easy as it used to be to toggle between games with multiple tabs open.  Now it's one at a time, and again, a commercial before the match.

The Customer Service is slow to respond (best to use the chat).

The ability to save Favorites is clunky.

My understanding (I could be wrong) was that all equipment (and cameramen?) would be supplied by FS, with the announcers (if any) supplied by the team(s).
I haven't seen any improvement in camera coverage/technology.

Other than that, everything is fantastic.  I know this is the trend, but pray your favorite conference doesn't get FS.

My understanding is that Flo simply requires the SCIAC schools to upgrade to a certain level of camera quality if they weren't there already, but otherwise does nothing for the game coverage.  That's why I think a school like Pomona (which has one of the largest endowments per student in the country) may have taken the money and invested it in better tech for the viewing experience, while other schools may have pocketed the money and continue to offer the exact same picture quality and no announcer experience they had before.

I haven't seen any more technical difficulties than past years in the SCIAC (in SoCal, we probably have fewer weather-related disruptions on-site to internet than in the NEWMAC if that is one source of tech difficulties), but I have noticed what you described about the technical issues that do occasionally pop up needing to restart the feed and deal with the start-up commercial.

Quote from: BaboNation on October 02, 2024, 02:47:21 PMI don't know about other conferences, but as a fan of the NEWMAC the first year of the contract under FloSports has been a net negative.  I swore I wouldn't pay for the service, but my addiction got the best of me so I signed up for the special NEWMAC all-sports package.

My experience:

The "technical difficulties" have increased dramatically - exponentially really.  And you never really know whether you should wait for the "we're working on it" to be resolved or restart the feed, which if you do so you've got a commercial to suffer through.

You really need to use the app, because the browser version is extra fluky and doesn't support IOS from what their CS told me.

Not as easy as it used to be to toggle between games with multiple tabs open.  Now it's one at a time, and again, a commercial before the match.

The Customer Service is slow to respond (best to use the chat).

The ability to save Favorites is clunky.

My understanding (I could be wrong) was that all equipment (and cameramen?) would be supplied by FS, with the announcers (if any) supplied by the team(s).
I haven't seen any improvement in camera coverage/technology.

Other than that, everything is fantastic.  I know this is the trend, but pray your favorite conference doesn't get FS.

As the parent of a 2025 committed to a NEWMAC school, this makes me queasy ...

The question of when, if ever, Trinity would score a goal in a NESCAC game this season has been answered: 

In it's fifth NESCAC game against Conn College

HALF:  Conn College 2 - Trinity 1

UPDATE:  Conn College 3 - Trinity 2

With Trinity cutting a two goal gap in half in the 67th minute, is it possible it could even get a NESCAC win or tie, and against its in-state rival to boot?

FINAL:  Conn College 3 - Trinity 2

Trinity was not able to get a result, but Trinity did score 2, which is more than any opponent has against the Camels this year.

As we come to some exciting fixtures in the league this weekend, eyes are on two players, perhaps the two most electrifying in the league. Amherst's Nuhu and Hamilton's Hawthorn are both exceptional competitors, driven to the fullest. While we have to wait yet for their direct matchup, we can witness them each in action this weekend in what are sure to be encapsulating affairs. I've seen a lot of comparisons on these boards between the two. Some favor Nuhu, some favor Hawthorn. The question on so many fans' minds this season: which one is better. All I have to say: just enjoy them while they're here.

Quote from: smoova on October 02, 2024, 04:14:23 PM

Quote from: BaboNation on October 02, 2024, 02:47:21 PMI don't know about other conferences, but as a fan of the NEWMAC the first year of the contract under FloSports has been a net negative.  I swore I wouldn't pay for the service, but my addiction got the best of me so I signed up for the special NEWMAC all-sports package.

My experience:

The "technical difficulties" have increased dramatically - exponentially really.  And you never really know whether you should wait for the "we're working on it" to be resolved or restart the feed, which if you do so you've got a commercial to suffer through.

You really need to use the app, because the browser version is extra fluky and doesn't support IOS from what their CS told me.

Not as easy as it used to be to toggle between games with multiple tabs open.  Now it's one at a time, and again, a commercial before the match.

The Customer Service is slow to respond (best to use the chat).

The ability to save Favorites is clunky.

My understanding (I could be wrong) was that all equipment (and cameramen?) would be supplied by FS, with the announcers (if any) supplied by the team(s).
I haven't seen any improvement in camera coverage/technology.

Other than that, everything is fantastic.  I know this is the trend, but pray your favorite conference doesn't get FS.

As the parent of a 2025 committed to a NEWMAC school, this makes me queasy ...

I don't want to be unduly critical.  It sounds like things are running better in other Flo conferences, so maybe it's mostly Year 1 transition pains. 

Good luck to your son or daughter!

Quote from: nuhusuperfan26 on October 02, 2024, 06:19:14 PMAs we come to some exciting fixtures in the league this weekend, eyes are on two players, perhaps the two most electrifying in the league. Amherst's Nuhu and Hamilton's Hawthorn are both exceptional competitors, driven to the fullest. While we have to wait yet for their direct matchup, we can witness them each in action this weekend in what are sure to be encapsulating affairs. I've seen a lot of comparisons on these boards between the two. Some favor Nuhu, some favor Hawthorn. The question on so many fans' minds this season: which one is better. All I have to say: just enjoy them while they're here.

Nuhu led the NESCAC in crotch grabs directed at opposing fans last season.  Let's see if he can continue that electrifying form this season

Quote from: paclassic89 on October 02, 2024, 09:10:51 PMNuhu led the NESCAC in crotch grabs directed at opposing fans last season.  Let's see if he can continue that electrifying form this season

Yup, remember that class move along with the asst. coach after that game. Plus the sub off the bench.

Quote from: paclassic89 on October 02, 2024, 09:10:51 PM

Quote from: nuhusuperfan26 on October 02, 2024, 06:19:14 PMAs we come to some exciting fixtures in the league this weekend, eyes are on two players, perhaps the two most electrifying in the league. Amherst's Nuhu and Hamilton's Hawthorn are both exceptional competitors, driven to the fullest. While we have to wait yet for their direct matchup, we can witness them each in action this weekend in what are sure to be encapsulating affairs. I've seen a lot of comparisons on these boards between the two. Some favor Nuhu, some favor Hawthorn. The question on so many fans' minds this season: which one is better. All I have to say: just enjoy them while they're here.

Nuhu led the NESCAC in crotch grabs directed at opposing fans last season.  Let's see if he can continue that electrifying form this season

As soon as you show greatness, the vultures start to circle, waiting for your downfall. Messi, LeBron, now Nuhu. Slander like this just adds to the legacy. Keep being great 21.

Manhattanville 1 Amherst 7

The EnmoreCat entourage was running late, but there in time to see the first goal in what was a 17 minute hat-trick for one of the sophomores, now with his own fan club on the boards (and of course the requisite Amhaters, but that's par for the course).  That effectively closed off the game as a spectacle and Coach proceeded to rotate in a number of players who hadn't seen much game time thus far.  The pressure didn't ease off however and it ended up being 4-1 at half-time and then it was more of the same in the second half.

The Manhattanville goal was arguably the best of the night, a superb hit from around the edge of the penalty area.  Whilst the result didn't go their way, they are an attractive team to watch and if allowed to, can move the ball sweetly.  They did however find it challenging to deal with the Amherst heat, but it's not hard to see why they won the Skyline last year.  The configuration of the field makes it easily the best viewing ground I have attended.

For the 🦣, a game like this been a while coming and hopefully boosts confidence ahead of the Seniors Day game against Wesleyan on Saturday.  It was great to see the freshmen get opportunities and take them.  I'd say there will be more than a few who are going to become household NESCAC names over the next few years.  There is now a sizeable NY flavour to the roster and there was a good attendance from not just those families, but also some 2025 commits.  They would have to like the look of what they saw this evening.

Foul Count: Manhattanville 12 Amherst 17

Well since you asked...but please don't be offended.  The facts are what they are--two goals were scored.  I think it's more about the characterization with what is seemingly some confirmation bias.  Some fans see goals scored as marvels and goals allowed as mistakes from a better team.  Human nature as we all have bias.  Sometimes if you look deeper you see things differently.  Let me try to show by example: 

Quote from: D3Reporter on October 02, 2024, 01:28:25 PMRewatched the goals on video to see how they compared to what I saw last night. Pretty unbelievable how much of the Babson goal was obscured by the post on the structure the camera is on. Seeing as that is...I can totally understand how my explanation about the miscommunication can seem like it came out of nowhere.

On the video you can see the beginning of the lead-up: Missed pass is cleared by Feinberg, which is blocked by Yablonovskiy.  A Tufts throw in deep in their defensive end is immediately won by Babson players with 2 skilled one touches leading to a poor cross from the corner but followed by a poorer clearance effort straight into a Babson attacker. Then after that, the post completely blocks the rest of the play until the shot. On the field, I saw Feinberg shielding for a few seconds and visibly/audibly yelling at Antic, expecting that he would pick it up. Antic stayed on his line, though, and Yablonovskiy capitalized as the Babson attacker was applying tremendous pressure behind the ball and eventually won it and quickly maneuvered into open space for the finish. Don't mean to take anything away from the Babson striker as his ability to get around Feinberg was impressive and strong, but to me, there's no doubt that goal doesn't happen if Feinberg and Antic are on the same page there Babson doesn't regain possession deep in the Tufts end and apply pressure.

In terms of the second goal, I think that one goes rather unobstructed. But, I view it at as a nicely placed ball to get it over the keeper onto Canfin's head, who finished at back post late in the game with almost everyone in the box the last of a series of corner kicks while Tufts was desperately sending attackers forward searching for the equalizer and found an unmarked man on the back post.  Had the Babson defender on the back post elected to come off his line sooner or another defender marked the scorer, Babson would have taken 3 points.

I totally understand, though, that it's the nature of the game that several of us watching the same play can have entirely different interpretations. Would love to hear what others took away from the goals to get a different perspective.

Again I'm not trying to be a PITA or take away any enjoyment. I watched the game as an objective party and enjoyed it myself--two really good teams.  Just pointing out bias happens.  All you need to do is look around here.  From player mistakes made to poor refereeing to questionable coaching and many others, sometimes it is difficult to just give the other team credit.  Even when it is due.

Good luck to the Jumbos.

Quote from: Freddyfud on October 03, 2024, 04:52:06 PMWell since you asked...but please don't be offended.  The facts are what they are--two goals were scored.  I think it's more about the characterization with what is seemingly some confirmation bias.  Some fans see goals scored as marvels and goals allowed as mistakes from a better team.  Human nature as we all have bias.  Sometimes if you look deeper you see things differently.  Let me try to show by example: 

Quote from: D3Reporter on October 02, 2024, 01:28:25 PMRewatched the goals on video to see how they compared to what I saw last night. Pretty unbelievable how much of the Babson goal was obscured by the post on the structure the camera is on. Seeing as that is...I can totally understand how my explanation about the miscommunication can seem like it came out of nowhere.

On the video you can see the beginning of the lead-up: Missed pass is cleared by Feinberg, which is blocked by Yablonovskiy.  A Tufts throw in deep in their defensive end is immediately won by Babson players with 2 skilled one touches leading to a poor cross from the corner but followed by a poorer clearance effort straight into a Babson attacker. Then after that, the post completely blocks the rest of the play until the shot. On the field, I saw Feinberg shielding for a few seconds and visibly/audibly yelling at Antic, expecting that he would pick it up. Antic stayed on his line, though, and Yablonovskiy capitalized as the Babson attacker was applying tremendous pressure behind the ball and eventually won it and quickly maneuvered into open space for the finish. Don't mean to take anything away from the Babson striker as his ability to get around Feinberg was impressive and strong, but to me, there's no doubt that goal doesn't happen if Feinberg and Antic are on the same page there Babson doesn't regain possession deep in the Tufts end and apply pressure.

In terms of the second goal, I think that one goes rather unobstructed. But, I view it at as a nicely placed ball to get it over the keeper onto Canfin's head, who finished at back post late in the game with almost everyone in the box the last of a series of corner kicks while Tufts was desperately sending attackers forward searching for the equalizer and found an unmarked man on the back post.  Had the Babson defender on the back post elected to come off his line sooner or another defender marked the scorer, Babson would have taken 3 points.

I totally understand, though, that it's the nature of the game that several of us watching the same play can have entirely different interpretations. Would love to hear what others took away from the goals to get a different perspective.

Again I'm not trying to be a PITA or take away any enjoyment. I watched the game as an objective party and enjoyed it myself--two really good teams.  Just pointing out bias happens.  All you need to do is look around here.  From player mistakes made to poor refereeing to questionable coaching and many others, sometimes it is difficult to just give the other team credit.  Even when it is due.

Good luck to the Jumbos.

"From player mistakes made to poor refereeing to questionable coaching and many others, sometimes it is difficult to just give the other team credit.  Even when it is due."

So very true. I'd even amend it to saying "any team credit" for most folks on here, especially on this specific thread..

I am failing so, so badly...

I would love a thorough, nuanced discussion around bias and the various filters through which we perceive what we perceive, and even unconsciously how we simultaneously maximize and minimize certain elements of what we perceive (often in the service of a larger, conclusory take that tends to fall on the side of supporting one's team).  Earlier today I had the thought that this site is "social media for old/older folks."

I take @Freddyfud at his word that his response was well-intentioned, and I agree that his edits supported his points.  That said, by picking that post to use as an example, I hope most observers don't view the original post as highly partisan or a "poor post."  Freddy in the end only did the strike through on one sentence and three partial sentences of a lengthy post.  Both the content and tone were imo more accurate and generous than 90% of the posts on this site.  We've lost some folks over the years who could do a sustained, nuanced analysis and I would hate to see that discouraged.  And if we're gonna call out the detailed, thoughtful posts, can we also call out posts that are almost entirely antagonistic and lacking in any real content.  I'm also mindful that the person seems to be a new poster, and his (or her) initial posts have been a far cry from the young dudes who burst through the door like a bull in a china shop, seem to primarily just be trolling, and then a week later are nowhere to be found.

For me, the goals in that game were not the point nor was the outcome.  Imo that game could have ended as a draw or with either team winning 1-0 and I would have had no complaints.  There WAS a defensive miscue on the Tufts side and the Babson player made a fantastic play.  Both can be true.  I'd guess most goals can be traced back to errors...like a giveaway in the other team's final third that leads to a breakout, 12 Maradonas and Cruyffs, 5 sharp combo passes, and ends with a brilliant finish for a goal.  I did not give Tufts "more credit" for their goal (and I'm not sure the poster did either).  That was imo an extremely fortunate goal, but mostly because of the timing and one more clear probably secures the game for Babson.  But can we also compare chances during the game?  Can we say that Tufts had more very good chances and was unfortunate not to score during the precedibg 89 minutes?  And yes, Babson could have scored earlier as well.  Whether I'm a neutral (I was in this case) or a rabid Tufts supporter (I don't know if the poster is or not), is it bad form to have a take like Tufts looks like a F4 candidate and Babson looks like a very good team that could have a very good chance to get to the second weekend of the tourney?  Is it OK to think one team is better or marginally better than another team?  Don't we do that every day, whether we post about it or not?  Isn't that why we talk about rankings and (for reasons beyond me) give rankings such high importance?  If I'm wrong or way off, isn't it possible that I reached the wrong conclusion with relative honesty?  And if there are objections and legit counters, can't those who found something too biased or out and out wrong lay out their argument and share his or her detailed take in contrast?

Full disclosure...I wasn't as neutral as I claimed.  While not a regular Babson fan, I was rooting heavily for the Beavers.  I have an intense dislike for Tufts (on par with Amherst dislike), but I will never disrespect them.  I learned my lesson exactly 10 years ago.  The Jumbos have caused me so much personal pain that I will always err on the side of overestimating them, same as I have historically regarding the programs in Grantham, PA, Delaware, OH, and Grand Rapids, MI.

Of course we also could see how the programs described it...

From Babson recap...

The Green and White opened the scoring in the 80th minute following a giveaway in the box. First-year Phillip Finch (La Jolla, Calif.) lost possession of the ball after carrying it into the box but the Tufts clearance deflected off Yablonovskiy, who then won a battle for the loose ball and took a touch around Antic before hitting the opening net.

Facing its first deficit of the season, the Jumbos finally broke through a stout Babson defense to score the equalizer in the 89th minute when Canfin got a head on Gerken's corner kick with a mass of bodies in the goal mouth for his fourth marker of the year.


More from Babson...

White made three of his four saves in the first half, which includes sliding into position to deny graduate student Mikey Brady (Washington, D.C.) in the 22nd minute before diving to his left to snare Brady's one-touch bid to open the scoring off a service from the left wing less than a minute later. Classmate Max Clivio (Kingston, Jamaica) also flicked a header just over the crossbar in the 14th minute and junior Daniel Yanez (Short Hills, N.J.) hit a 23-yard free kick just over the bar in the 70th minute.

Antic saved Beavers' graduate student James Donaldson's (Kirkland, Quebec) in the 30th minute and senior Liam Rhatigan (Holderness, N.H.) saw his back post header off a corner kick sail just off target in the 44th minute. The Tufts defense did well to block sophomore McKenzy Pierre's (West Orange, N.J.) shot out of play after a strong run into the box by Yablonovskiy in the 49th minute, while graduate student Marco Cerezo (Malaga, Spain) missed just wide of the right post in the 60th minute.

From Tufts...

The game would remain in a state of stalemate for most of the second half, until senior defender Taylor Feinberg had his clearance attempt blocked by Babson sophomore forward Alexander Yablonovskiy. Feinberg initially collected his own rebound, but the persistent Yablonovskiy pried the ball away from him on the Jumbos own goal line, dribbling towards the goal and slipping the ball by a sprawling Antic. The Beavers led 1-0 with 10 minutes to play.

The Jumbos were enraged by the Babson goal, immediately cranking up the tempo and intensity, pinning the Beavers in their own end. The Jumbos had three corner kicks in the final 10 minutes, and it would take them until their third try to score. Sophomore Xavier Canfin proved that the third time really is a charm, as he grappled with and leapt above the Beavers defense to flick a header into the top right corner of the goal. The Jumbos had their equalizer, and it could not have come at a better time, as they scored with a mere 80 seconds remaining in the match.

Every single one of those 80 seconds were played out with a frenzy, as each side scrambled to secure a winning goal, but neither would have the time to develop any meaningful chances. The match concluded with a final score of 1-1.

So the only discrepancy I see in the team recaps is the last line of tufts.  If I recall there were 10-15 seconds in the end where a tufts player held the ball on the sideline allowing the clock to expire vs throwing it in.

So every single second was certainly not played out.

I hate when PN says something intelligent, that makes sense and that I can learn from!