Quote from: Ice Bear on October 06, 2024, 11:29:19 AMLast thought for Sunday. I still am quite perplexed by Union's last drive yesterday. I almost can't believe it was real. You've got the ball across the 50, there is over a minute left (at least in the area of a minute), you have three timeouts, you have been running the ball well, and what? You go all playground on your play calling and don't use ANY of those time outs to help set up a score?

Let me also say I was frustrated by this but admittedly am no football coach and am looking for some thoughts and clarification here. I'm not looking to bash Coach Drach or anyone else here, as I couldn't do his job for half a second without losing my mind. I just want to learn regarding this situation.  Was this indeed poor planning/coaching? Was this just poor execution on the players end? I'd like to hear some thoughts on this as I know there is some very solid knowledge of the game here.

Ice Bear, I think you know where I stand on this...If anyone wants to see the last drive it starts at the 2:55 mark just before the 2 minute time out...  https://saintsathletics.com/sports/2019/9/3/2019-saints-football-broadcasts

There were a couple of times that Union could have stopped the clock and yes, they had all 3 time outs remaining...Early in the drive they let 19 seconds run off the clock when they could have used a TO after a couple of running plays but that didn't seem critical at the time. The real problem comes with 39 seconds left and the clock stopped by an incomplete pass. at the 3;00 mark of the video. Following a Saint Lawrence TO with the ball at the Saints 37 Flanagan runs for 7 yards on a keeper. A TO here would have stopped the clock at 34 seconds. Instead they snap the ball at 19 seconds (15 seconds lost) and Flanagan scrambles to save the play getting out of bounds with only 12 seconds left. At this point the Saints commentator says "I don't know if the Union coaches are aware he has all three timeouts remaining and he's letting the clock tick,tick,tick. He must have a lot of trust in his kicker". Numerous times in this last drive the St Lawrence announce team mentions the remaining time outs...After a near missed completion the clock is now at 7 seconds and STILL no time out is called. One that should have been used to remind Flanagan he must get rid of the ball quickly and not take a sack. Maybe the coaches had already addressed this but doing it again would have been appropriate. Remember it's only second down but they've squandered chances to run more plays. Kick a FG here or try to get closer? The Union kicker, a freshman, has a strong leg. In practice(and in high school) he's hit from 50+. Got to preserve a chance for him right? That's not how it played out. St Lawrence does a great job smothering all quick pass routes and getting in Flanagan's face. He panics (remember this is only his 6th start, one was 2 years ago) and appears to not be prepared for what to do in such a situation. A desperate throw away results in a intentional grounding flag which ends the drive sending the game to overtime.     

Who's to blame? Better said who should have handled things better. The HC needs refreshers on clock management but we all know we see the same thing at all levels of football, even the NFL. I'm disappointed because this is not coach Drach's first go round. He's been a head coach before. Listen Union is going nowhere this year. Maybe another painful lesson will benefit in the future. I hope so.       

I watched the end of the Union-SLU game and congrats to the Saints. There were some clock management issues by Union which has contributed to the season's frustration, but kudos to the Saints kicker  and the entire team to earn the LL opener. Bartman is concerned that the away games at SLU and UofR offer no "rest" for the Statesmen on the schedule.
Team depth is very important this season as every game looks like the intensity will be dialed up every week for closely contested games. Hobart has already used eight different starters on the Oline(we had 4 of 5 starters returning) ; our stand out wrestler turned DL transfer Billy Brosko has been out the last 2 games, and QB Johnny Colombi looks like he might have a bad shoulder injury(kept him out of second half of IC game).Tru Styles stepped up well.Next man up for the rest of the season for everyone in the LL.

Watched the end of that Union game.  Obviously they were trying to kick a FG with no time left so SLU couldn't get the ball back.  But I agree that they should have called one TO after that run by Flannigan for 7.  Then the last play where Patch got the penalty is also odd  because that play took too long that even if he did complete it there may have been zero time on the clock.

But it was clear that they had faith in that kicker to get them a 45 yarder with no time left.

Quote from: Jonny Utah on October 06, 2024, 08:11:37 PMWatched the end of that Union game.  Obviously they were trying to kick a FG with no time left so SLU couldn't get the ball back.  But I agree that they should have called one TO after that run by Flannigan for 7.  Then the last play where Patch got the penalty is also odd  because that play took too long that even if he did complete it there may have been zero time on the clock.

But it was clear that they had faith in that kicker to get them a 45 yarder with no time left.

Thanks for looking at it and commenting Bartman and Utah but IMO they shouldn't be settling for a 45 yarder. With 3 time outs and a tiring Saints defense there was no reason why they shouldn't have gotten closer. Poor clock management cost them at least 3-4 plays. FG try should have come from well inside the 30. 

I watched the last 2 minutes, plus OT live.  Agree with you Ufan, terrible clock management and play calling.  I had no idea they still had 2 timeouts.  QB also has to me made more aware of the clock.

I was away all weekend so didn't get to see or listen to any games. Checked in on the RPI/Rochester game via Live Stats and it seemed like a slog. Not sure if it was an 'exciting' game in person, but the stat line is kind of gross for both teams. Big win for Rochester though and congrats to them.

Ithaca/Hobart looks rough as well. And I'm sure the SLU/Union game was exciting, but almost feels like 2 teams not really knowing how to win a game. Hobart is looking the strongest in my opinion followed by Rochester(for now).

I agree with Utah, it's anyone's Pool A bid this year. I have a hard time believing the league champ will not have 2 league losses at this point. Kind of a throwback season. I'd widdle it down to Roch, Bart, Ithaca, and RPI at this point. But RPI has been pretty disappointing. Realistically should probably be 4-1 and they are 2-3. Frustrating stuff.

I was away all weekend so didn't get to see or listen to any games. Checked in on the RPI/Rochester game via Live Stats and it seemed like a slog. Not sure if it was an 'exciting' game in person, but the stat line is kind of gross for both teams. Big win for Rochester though and congrats to them.

Ithaca/Hobart looks rough as well. And I'm sure the SLU/Union game was exciting, but almost feels like 2 teams not really knowing how to win a game. Hobart is looking the strongest in my opinion followed by Rochester(for now).

I agree with Utah, it's anyone's Pool A bid this year. I have a hard time believing the league champ will not have 2 league losses at this point. Kind of a throwback season. I'd widdle it down to Roch, Bart, Ithaca, and RPI at this point. But RPI has been pretty disappointing. Realistically should probably be 4-1 and they are 2-3. Frustrating stuff.

On the SLU/Union game, I want to thank SLU for leaving the game film up , I wish Hobart did that. It gave a few of us a chance to see the end of game and opine on some bad clock management.

I got to watch most of the Rochester-RPI game via pay per view.  Rochester proved they belonged in the hunt for the LL NCAA bid.  They did just enough on offense and stuffed the RPI running game to start the season at 5-0.  While I think Rochester has a chance to win all of their remaining games, they get Ithaca, Hobart and Union on the road so it will be tough.

Penalties once again killed RPI.  They had 9 for 100 yards including one offsetting penalty.  Critical ones included:

• Facemask on Rochester's opening play. Rochester then marched 59 yards down the field to go up 7-0.  Best drive of the day for Rochester.
• Three 15 yard penalties which lead to Rochester's second touchdown.
• False start on 3rd and 7 from the Rochester 15 in the fourth quarter.  RPI turned the ball over on downs.

RPI couldn't run the ball.  They had less than 25 yards net rushing and most of that was in the second half.  RPI did not dress their top two RBs.  That did not help, but even with White or Buckley, it still would have been a struggle.

Also, Kazanowsky had two interceptions. I did not see the first one that was deep in Rochester territory in Q1.  The second one was on RPI's final drive with about 30 seconds in the game after he had completed six passes in a row.

Like with the Endicott game, RPI had their opportunities, but they just couldn't finish. Ithaca and Hobart should be prepared for a dog fight when they play Rochester.

The LL QB play is absolutely atrocious this season. Just one team is passing for 200 yards a game, and just two are completing 60% of their passes. Not good stuff

Quote from: IC798891 on October 07, 2024, 01:49:53 PMThe LL QB play is absolutely atrocious this season. Just one team is passing for 200 yards a game, and just two are completing 60% of their passes. Not good stuff

Indeed. The big four have quarterbacks that are ranked number 99, 104, 167, and 192 nationally in qb efficiency. 

Liberty League awards from Saturday-
Offensive Performer of the Week: Oskar Baldwin, St. Lawrence
Defensive Performer of the Week: Anthony Romano, Hobart
Co-Special Teams Player of the Week: Clayton Fogler, St. Lawrence
Co-Special Teams Player of the Week: Vicente Lyon, Hobart
Rookie of the Week: Sam Arbaugh, St. Lawrence
Honor Roll: Oskar Baldwin, St. Lawrence; Jake Connolly, Ithaca; Patch Flanagan, Union; Cassius Johnson, RPI; Jalen Leonard-Osbourne, Ithaca; E.J. Taylor, Hobart; Ryan Surhoff, St. Lawrence; Simon Weeren, Rochester

Would have hoped for more recognition for the Jackets but I understand that the individual stats were not there.  Regardless, QB Ryan Rose, LB Luke Herter, DB Jack Yensel, TE Nick Wamp and LB Joe DeBonis were very important in the win.  Huge day for the U of R as they have not beat the Engineers in 10 years.  Life does not get easier as they head to Ithaca this Saturday.  Another team they haven't beat for some time.

Quote from: JacketsPride on October 07, 2024, 03:41:43 PMLiberty League awards from Saturday-
Offensive Performer of the Week: Oskar Baldwin, St. Lawrence
Defensive Performer of the Week: Anthony Romano, Hobart
Co-Special Teams Player of the Week: Clayton Fogler, St. Lawrence
Co-Special Teams Player of the Week: Vicente Lyon, Hobart
Rookie of the Week: Sam Arbaugh, St. Lawrence
Honor Roll: Oskar Baldwin, St. Lawrence; Jake Connolly, Ithaca; Patch Flanagan, Union; Cassius Johnson, RPI; Jalen Leonard-Osbourne, Ithaca; E.J. Taylor, Hobart; Ryan Surhoff, St. Lawrence; Simon Weeren, Rochester

Would have hoped for more recognition for the Jackets but I understand that the individual stats were not there.  Regardless, QB Ryan Rose, LB Luke Herter, DB Jack Yensel, TE Nick Wamp and LB Joe DeBonis were very important in the win.  Huge day for the U of R as they have not beat the Engineers in 10 years.  Life does not get easier as they head to Ithaca this Saturday.  Another team they haven't beat for some time.

JacketsPride,
     Congrats on the big win. Don't worry about the awards, beating RPI is way better. Now , as far as Ithaca, I think you are walking in to a really mad bunch of players that protect their house better than anyone in the Liberty League. Ithaca has a massive Oline,and two great backs, so I think you will be tested  by some pissed off players. I know the Bomber faithful are very disappointed now, but I expect the Bombers to come out swinging on Saturday. If you can win at Butterfield, you will get top 25 votes, no doubt, and uber respect. Good luck, you have a great coach in Chad Martinovich(Hobart "94) and I think he has finally assembled some talent that will change the balance in the LL just like he did at MIT. For what it's worth , if it comes down to game management, Chad has the advantage on Saturday from my perspective.

Quote from: IC798891 on October 07, 2024, 01:49:53 PMThe LL QB play is absolutely atrocious this season. Just one team is passing for 200 yards a game, and just two are completing 60% of their passes. Not good stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJRT7WqDAHg

Well as I was looking to possibly watch some of last weeks Hobart/Ithaca game, I stumbled upon this gem from 1986.  Man it seems like a more physical game back then.  Lots of cut blocks and chop blocks and head hunting....both teams very tough this year.  Also noticed the big crowd for this game.  Makes me wonder if maybe Hobart and Ithaca should play at the end of the LL season each year in case it comes down to the LL championship. 

Also just noticed that Boswell has no visiting stands?  I know they had them way back when. Did they move the new field back towards the field house or just not have enough room when they redid the stadium?

Fun fact:  LL OPOW Oskar Baldwin from SLU grew up right behind me and went to the same HS.  I also played TE.....small world.

Fun Fact2:  My cousins kid plays for Hobart and had a huge play to seal off the win for the Statesmen. 

While I'm rambling, as we talk about how down the LL is (or offense is) it's interesting to point out that Endicott and Cortland both seem to be holding their own on the national stage.  At least comparative score wise anyway.  Possibly tells us that the LL has the best defensive conference in the country.  I'll go with that.

Johnny U, Great old film of some big shoulder pads on the Statesmen.Hobart was 5-4 that season and the 28-3 loss to Ithaca on the film was our worst of the season. We also played Canisius and LIU back then, but Ithaca has always been tough to beat, that's why Saturday was a big deal.
 As far as the visitor stands we had a full side at the old Boswell Bowl which was in the middle of the campus. Back in the early 1970's the old Boswell Bowl was the scene of some pretty famous lacrosse contests including the 15 pound lake trout game, gutted and hurled at the Cornell bench as a suggested sushi meal for the Big Red.  The new stadium was put up about 1974 with stands on one side as far as I remember.