The record crowds at Wabash on the all-time list were at a time when security issues were not as big a concern as it is now. Wabash and DePauw have come close to cancelling the game and the series in the last 30 years due to incidents, inside and outside the stadiums, that would embarrass the institutions since televised games became the norm. It is my opinion that now because both institutions try very hard to control the crowds by setting limits on attendance and requiring the necessary security, only a larger venue would accommodate the needs for larger crowds and security needs.

Many younger Wabash fans might want to know that both Wabash and DePauw have experienced that half-empty look years ago when the former Indiana Collegiate Athletic Conference staged a "Day at the Dome" where 4 conference games were played in one day at the Hoosier Dome in 1984. Followed by another appearance in 1986 where Wabash played Anderson but did not include all ICAC schools but did include other colleges from Indiana in the Hoosier Dome.  There was also an invitation, which was also turned down, in the 80's by either Purdue or I.U. to hold the Monon Bell game at either Ross-Ade Stadium in Lafayette or Memorial Stadium in Bloomington. It has just been too long ago and didn't cause much of a stir of my memory to remember the exact year.

This never gets old

Barstool Sports Monon Bell

Quote from: Whitecarrera on October 29, 2024, 06:07:33 PMLet's keep a little perspective about where those fans might come from.  When you consider that Whitewater's current enrollment is larger than Wabash's entire living alumni base, then packing Hollett and Blackstock is probably about right.

And how about St. John's and St. Thomas? Or Ithaca, which brought way more of the 40,000 fans to Yankee Stadium and Met Life Stadium than Cortland did?

And I will reiterate that I wasn't talking about a neutral site, just allowing a few thousand more fans to view the game on campus.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 29, 2024, 08:18:49 PMAnd how about St. John's and St. Thomas? Or Ithaca, which brought way more of the 40,000 fans to Yankee Stadium and Met Life Stadium than Cortland did?

I think there is probably a critical mass of students and alumni that would attend a Monon Bell game no matter where it's held. At which point there has to be a more "general interest area" to have a crowd closer to 20K fans. If I remember correctly, St. Johns and St. Benedict had around 3,000 students, and St. Thomas had closer to 9,000 or so. Which are pretty good sized. I was thinking Ithaca is around 5,000 if I remember, and I'm pretty sure Cortland is around there as well.

Looking at that list of big games, there are clearly certain schools/rivalries that can pull a large number of fans (UWW with most other WIAC schools, St. Johns, Cortland and Ithaca, RMC and HSC, and Wabash and Depauw). But some things limit those. Clemens Stadium seats 7,500 with no extra seating, and the Perk seats 13,500 giving a little extra room for those big games. Little Giant stadium seats 3,500 and Blackstock is 3,000. So those Monon stadiums at absolute max capacity with extra bleachers etc. is still going to top around 10,000. Plus, at least on campus, I have no idea where you'd put that many cars at Wabash.

I think you'd need a strong presence of interested folks outside the core alumni/student base to justify a neutral site game. Indiana splits several d3 conferences, and only DPU and Wabco are in Indiana from the NCAC. We also could have IU, Purdue, Notre Dame, Ball St., Indiana St., Butler, and Valpo potentially playing games in state at the same time (from d1 only, not including other d3 rivalry weekend games from the HCAC), which really draws down the number of potentially neutral fans who might attend. The other thing is that for a while at least, the Monon Bell game was getting televised nationally, which would limit the number of in-person fans who just didn't want to deal with everything.

FWIW, I too would really love to see the Monon Bell game compete with some of the other big attendance games, but I also think realistically there are lots of reasons it's just not feasible at this point to be 10,000+. With that in mind, for two schools, whose total combined enrollment is less than 3,000, both located in the middle of nowhere Indiana, we put up a pretty good showing. I'd love it if everyone interested in seeing it in person could, but I can see why it is how it is.

Quote from: Whitecarrera on October 29, 2024, 06:07:33 PMLet's keep a little perspective about where those fans might come from.  When you consider that Whitewater's current enrollment is larger than Wabash's entire living alumni base, then packing Hollett and Blackstock is probably about right.

The Hoosier Dome would've been cool when it was brand new, but I can't even think of a suitable place to play a game like that today.  A half empty Lucas Oil is about as exciting as Cheez Whiz nachos and $15 beers -- Have you been to the Indiana HS championships in the last 20 years?

The only other place that would be reasonable (seating and distance) would be Memorial Stadium in Terre Haute (seats 12,000 without special accommodations).  But all the seats are on one side, so probably not a great solution!

Quote from: maripp2002 on October 29, 2024, 09:12:08 PM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 29, 2024, 08:18:49 PMAnd how about St. John's and St. Thomas? Or Ithaca, which brought way more of the 40,000 fans to Yankee Stadium and Met Life Stadium than Cortland did?

I think there is probably a critical mass of students and alumni that would attend a Monon Bell game no matter where it's held. At which point there has to be a more "general interest area" to have a crowd closer to 20K fans. If I remember correctly, St. Johns and St. Benedict had around 3,000 students, and St. Thomas had closer to 9,000 or so. Which are pretty good sized. I was thinking Ithaca is around 5,000 if I remember, and I'm pretty sure Cortland is around there as well.

Looking at that list of big games, there are clearly certain schools/rivalries that can pull a large number of fans (UWW with most other WIAC schools, St. Johns, Cortland and Ithaca, RMC and HSC, and Wabash and Depauw). But some things limit those. Clemens Stadium seats 7,500 with no extra seating, and the Perk seats 13,500 giving a little extra room for those big games. Little Giant stadium seats 3,500 and Blackstock is 3,000. So those Monon stadiums at absolute max capacity with extra bleachers etc. is still going to top around 10,000. Plus, at least on campus, I have no idea where you'd put that many cars at Wabash.

I think you'd need a strong presence of interested folks outside the core alumni/student base to justify a neutral site game. Indiana splits several d3 conferences, and only DPU and Wabco are in Indiana from the NCAC. We also could have IU, Purdue, Notre Dame, Ball St., Indiana St., Butler, and Valpo potentially playing games in state at the same time (from d1 only, not including other d3 rivalry weekend games from the HCAC), which really draws down the number of potentially neutral fans who might attend. The other thing is that for a while at least, the Monon Bell game was getting televised nationally, which would limit the number of in-person fans who just didn't want to deal with everything.

FWIW, I too would really love to see the Monon Bell game compete with some of the other big attendance games, but I also think realistically there are lots of reasons it's just not feasible at this point to be 10,000+. With that in mind, for two schools, whose total combined enrollment is less than 3,000, both located in the middle of nowhere Indiana, we put up a pretty good showing. I'd love it if everyone interested in seeing it in person could, but I can see why it is how it is.

It was done in 2004 (11,504), 2006 (11,669) and 2008 (11,423). I guess I'm just surprised to hear it isn't feasible.

Psst -- most logistical barriers are solvable. Parking, for example, St. John's runs shuttle buses from satellite parking lots. Yes, your home grandstand is 3,550, but it's not like Monon Bell only has 3,550 fans when it's on your campus.

Quote from: wabashcpa on October 29, 2024, 09:14:37 PM

Quote from: Whitecarrera on October 29, 2024, 06:07:33 PMLet's keep a little perspective about where those fans might come from.  When you consider that Whitewater's current enrollment is larger than Wabash's entire living alumni base, then packing Hollett and Blackstock is probably about right.

The Hoosier Dome would've been cool when it was brand new, but I can't even think of a suitable place to play a game like that today.  A half empty Lucas Oil is about as exciting as Cheez Whiz nachos and $15 beers -- Have you been to the Indiana HS championships in the last 20 years?

The only other place that would be reasonable (seating and distance) would be Memorial Stadium in Terre Haute (seats 12,000 without special accommodations).  But all the seats are on one side, so probably not a great solution!

Butler Bowl!  Both Bash and DPU have played games there in the last few years, and it was an awesome atmosphere for both.  Additional seating would still need to be added on the visitor's side, but how cool would it be to see those endzone hillsides packed?  Won't happen, but it would be pretty cool to see!

Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 29, 2024, 09:52:23 PMt was done in 2004 (11,504), 2006 (11,669) and 2008 (11,423). I guess I'm just surprised to hear it isn't feasible.

According to a 2016 article from the DePauw: https://thedepauw.com/monon-bell-attendance-figures-recent-years/

"Attendance figures for the games played at Blackstock Stadium have remained steady, in large part because the capacity at DePauw is usually capped out at around 8,000, preventing any more people from attending.

DePauw's Athletic Director, Stevie Baker-Watson, mentioned that one reason for this decline has been the reconfiguration of Wabash's Hollett Little Giant Stadium, which she said drove the maximum number of people allowed into the game down."

I found a picture of LG stadium with all the extra grandstands and bells and whistles setup and it definitely looks about 3-4K people smaller than when I was there.



So, my guess is that it truly is a feasibility problem, at least if they want to host the game on campus. Now, Butler bowl or at Indiana State you've got some new possibilities. It would be interesting to know how open the two schools would be to that, because one of the things that will  get alumni (who donate) back to campus is the Bell game, and if they're hosting that somewhere else you may lose some opportunities that way.

The 11,000+ attendance was during the old configuration of Little Giant Stadium PLUS standing room on the track was allowed to its fullest extent.  Standing room is no longer encouraged or allowed at all. Ticketholders are expected to find a seat.  That is another change in security measures in the past few years.

Quote from: WLG Old Historian on October 30, 2024, 03:58:54 PMStanding room is no longer encouraged or allowed at all

Even if I wear my sphinx pot and overalls?! At 40+ I still look just like I did when I was 22, plus a few gray hairs here and there. 

Wabash 24
Denison 23

FINAL

Hell of a game.  LG's still alive in the conference hunt.

Quote from: wabashcpa on November 02, 2024, 03:34:20 PMWabash 24
Denison 23

FINAL

Hell of a game.  LG's still alive in the conference hunt.

Offense is just not up to snuff this year I'm afraid. Good win though today! Win and move on.

Nice win.  Glad Morel got a win for his last regular season home game.

Great game today at Wabash.
One of the big reasons (perhaps the biggest) is the cost of putting on the Bell Game. Expenses
for security and erecting grandstands have risen at an incredible rate since the pandemic.  DPU has never had the ability to add to Blackstock Stadium  the numbers that will fit into Little Giant Stadium.  With rising expenses both schools decided to shrink the ticket numbers available. Because of the stadium sizes, Wabash by more than DePauw.
    The price of tickets has risen recently.  This year the cost is $35. 
    I may be wrong, but I think at Wabash the decision to shrink the number of seats has little to do with the new stadium's footprint, which is not too different from that of the old stadium.
     Long ago, when there was the question of moving the game to a neutral site, neither school was interested.  Whether this is the case today, I don't know.  But I'd say both like the game on campus.