Quote from: IC798891 on November 03, 2024, 01:35:28 PM

Quote from: unionpalooza on November 03, 2024, 12:57:50 PMCoach Twerp is just being a whiny B.

I miss the days when Union would duck Ithaca and we didn't have to hear stupid crap like this.

Just kidding. I mean, Union totally used to duck Ithaca, but it's always fun beating them and reminding them that their program will always be behind IC's. Heck, even when IC wasn't good, beating Union was never a problem. Given that Union's lost 13 of 14 since the series restarted, maybe they should call up some people from the 1980s, dust off that "Reasons why we don't want to play IC" book.

And this is the reason why the rest of us in the LL celebrate every IC loss.......

Alright let's everyone take a collective breath lol. I actually enjoy the banter here between these two rival teams...albeit an admittedly one sided rivalry in IC's favor.

It's very hard to tell what's going on down there and I'm sure there are bits of truth in everyone's observations to an extent. These kids work their assess off. It gets heated out there and it isn't for the faint of heart.
Love the fact that IC joined the LL. They've made the conference better and added a fourth monster head to the LL.

If a coach is constantly bantering with opposing players that will eventually work itself out IMHO. I think you can only get away with it for so long. Same thing goes with a player barking at an opposing coach. Personally I like the fact that Drach sat Desilva if he did in fact get into with the IC coach. It'll all work itself out. Two traditionally excellent programs with solid coaches and some feisty alum. Love this ****.

Hobart beats RPI, wins the Liberty League and gets one less vote in the D3Football poll , RPI fans should be insulted, I thought beating RPI was more impressive than that

Quote from: Bartman on November 03, 2024, 07:58:05 PMHobart beats RPI, wins the Liberty League and gets one less vote in the D3Football poll , RPI fans should be insulted, I thought beating RPI was more impressive than that

Congrats to the Statesmen! And to think had it not been for that Hobart punt taking a cursed bounce and touching a Saxon...AU might be a (very respectable) 6-2. And, had the Saxons gotten off the bus at Pep's alma mater, perhaps at 7-1 (but still way behind dem Dragons). Coulda, shoulda, woulda...but Pep is happy the band is becoming quite proficient playing the fight song this year!

RPI played a pretty terrible and uninspired first half of football Saturday. The offense was bad. The defense was worse. It was disappointing, but they came back with a vengeance in the second half of the game and it really looked like they might pull off a huge comeback getting stopped inside Hobart territory down 6 with just a few minutes to go. The comeback and heart shown was commendable and hopefully they can finish the season strong and with some momentum heading into 2025.

Congrats to Hobart on a well-played game the the LL crown. After week 1, I think I had Hobart at 3, but they certainly proved me wrong and have had a hell of season. I hope they can finish strong and make a few waves in the postseason. Though I struggled watching the throwing mechanics of their QB. Just...eeeek.

I listened to Union/Ithaca. Sounded like Ithaca just manhandled them. It also sounded very chippy and, atleast from the Ithaca broadcast, sounded like the Union players were just doing what Union players traditionally do when things aren't going there way, though from comments here, it sounds a little more 2-sided.

Rochester though...What in the actual...Good lawddddd.

Quote from: AUPepBand on November 04, 2024, 11:24:32 AM

Quote from: Bartman on November 03, 2024, 07:58:05 PMHobart beats RPI, wins the Liberty League and gets one less vote in the D3Football poll , RPI fans should be insulted, I thought beating RPI was more impressive than that


[/quote

Congrats to the Statesmen! And to think had it not been for that Hobart punt taking a cursed bounce and touching a Saxon...AU might be a (very respectable) 6-2. And, had the Saxons gotten off the bus at Pep's alma mater, perhaps at 7-1 (but still way behind dem Dragons). Coulda, shoulda, woulda...but Pep is happy the band is becoming quite proficient playing the fight song this year!

Hey Pep, that muffed punt was pure luck and started us on a successful season. I was impressed with Alfred that Saturday , they had some very strong lineman on both sides of the ball and that trio on offense is very talented. Congrats on beating Utica, Hobart lost to them in a bowl game at the end of last season. Good luck the rest of the way, the Saxon Warriors are my second favorite D3 football team

Quote from: Machiavelli on November 04, 2024, 12:28:56 PMRPI played a pretty terrible and uninspired first half of football Saturday. The offense was bad. The defense was worse. It was disappointing, but they came back with a vengeance in the second half of the game and it really looked like they might pull off a huge comeback getting stopped inside Hobart territory down 6 with just a few minutes to go. The comeback and heart shown was commendable and hopefully they can finish the season strong and with some momentum heading into 2025.

Congrats to Hobart on a well-played game the the LL crown. After week 1, I think I had Hobart at 3, but they certainly proved me wrong and have had a hell of season. I hope they can finish strong and make a few waves in the postseason. Though I struggled watching the throwing mechanics of their QB. Just...eeeek.

I listened to Union/Ithaca. Sounded like Ithaca just manhandled them. It also sounded very chippy and, atleast from the Ithaca broadcast, sounded like the Union players were just doing what Union players traditionally do when things aren't going there way, though from comments here, it sounds a little more 2-sided.

Rochester though...What in the actual...Good lawddddd.

Mach, those Slide rulers were totally pumped and almost pulled the comeback off in the second half. I didn't watch the game live , but saw the game on Youtube. By the Way, I think it was mentioned here, but the RPI TV is very professionally done and the announcer is professional as well. Hobart was impressive in the first three drives that put the game just out of reach . But, the  drives that RPI put together was impressive and should bode extremely well for next year. I've always felt Isernia recruited and coached well , and he showed his skills getting the boys ready to play the second half. I think Hobart burst the RPI bubble last year, but I thought payback was coming in the fourth quarter. Just glad to get out with a win in that stadium , the Bengals game was a gift to the LL title.
    As far as the extra curriculars at the Union-Ithaca game , I find it rich that the two LL bad boys( just ask ex-players from Hobart, RPI, SLU and UofR) are complaining about each other.

2 votes last week and 1 this week.  WTF?  Justice for Hobart!!

Quote from: JacketsPride on November 04, 2024, 08:18:33 PM2 votes last week and 1 this week.  WTF?  Justice for Hobart!!

I think if Hobart had rolled over RPI in the second half, it might have helped get a few more votes, but it's clear to me that the LL is not held in high esteem this year. In the past if Hobart beat Ithaca, Union and RPI and won the LL, they would definitely be in the top 25. The fact that both Ithaca and RPI lost to Endicott seems to have set a certain perception of the LL strength . Although Hobart lost to Randolph Macon in OT, it is still a loss. If those 3 games were LL team wins, th perception would be very different IMO.
 

Quote from: Bartman on November 05, 2024, 10:52:38 AM

Quote from: JacketsPride on November 04, 2024, 08:18:33 PM2 votes last week and 1 this week.  WTF?  Justice for Hobart!!

I think if Hobart had rolled over RPI in the second half, it might have helped get a few more votes, but it's clear to me that the LL is not held in high esteem this year. In the past if Hobart beat Ithaca, Union and RPI and won the LL, they would definitely be in the top 25. The fact that both Ithaca and RPI lost to Endicott seems to have set a certain perception of the LL strength . Although Hobart lost to Randolph Macon in OT, it is still a loss. If those 3 games were LL team wins, th perception would be very different IMO.
 

I think that's part of it, but I also think it's because (i) Hobart has not been blowing teams out and (ii) Hobart wasn't ranked last year.  I've just come to the conclusion that there is no reasonable basis to make the cross-country comparison that a Top 25 requires; it's astrology, not science.  There is no reliable data point that tells you how Hobart compares to Marietta compares to Aurora compares to Grove City; it's a game of choose your confirmation bias.  (I think the best that can be said for D3's poll - and I mean this as a legit compliment given the inherit challenge of ranking without meaningful data - is that it reflects a diverse range of confirmation biases.)

Best for Hobart to appreciate the pollster snub as the bulletin board material fodder it is, and make their case on the field in November.  Assuming they win out, they should be around a 5 seed, meaning a first round buy and a winnable first game, maybe at home.  If you followed today's NPI religiously, they'd be playing at UMass-Dartmouth in the first round, then probably a Cortland or Salisbury in round 2. Obviously, that will change, and geographic seeding will introduce some irregularity, but that gives you a sense.

As an aside, I got curious the other day about update NY football in the larger D3 context.  Over the past 24 years, there are now fewer than 7 programs in upstate that have Cortland, Brockport, SFJ, Ithaca, Union, Hobart, and RPI that have significant success.  All seven had at least 3 10-win seasons over that period and advanced to the second round of the NCAAs at least three times.  Union, Ithaca, RPI, Hobart and Brockport all have three 10-win seasons; Cortland has four and SJF has six.  In terms of the NCAAs, Cortland obviously went the farthest, but RPI, Brockport and SJF have all played in national semifinal games.

Not bad for an upstate NY region with six million people and a crowded mix of 15 D3 programs.  Ohio has double the population but only 18 schools, and only three programs with similar success (Mt. Union, JCU and Wittenberg.). Illinois has double the population but 17 programs and only two programs with similar success (NCU and Wheaton).  Minnesota has a similar population and number of D3 schools but only two with similar success (St. John's and Bethel), plus St. Thomas once upon a time.  Michigan has ten D3 schools and no program with similar success.  Wisconsin, on the other hand, is a beast.  I didn't bother to check PA, but suspect it looks more like upstate NY.

At any rate, this is all very nerdy, but I've always wondered whether one reason that upstate NY consistently produced good but not national-champion caliber programs was the extent to which there are a bunch of strong competing programs that cannibalize one another, and that does seem to be true to some extent.

Quote from: unionpalooza on November 05, 2024, 12:16:20 PMI've just come to the conclusion that there is no reasonable basis to make the cross-country comparison that a Top 25 requires; it's astrology, not science.  There is no reliable data point that tells you how Hobart compares to Marietta compares to Aurora compares to Grove City; it's a game of choose your confirmation bias.  (I think the best that can be said for D3's poll - and I mean this as a legit compliment given the inherit challenge of ranking without meaningful data - is that it reflects a diverse range of confirmation biases.)

This is extremely well put

Quote from: unionpalooza on November 05, 2024, 12:16:20 PM

Quote from: Bartman on November 05, 2024, 10:52:38 AM

Quote from: JacketsPride on November 04, 2024, 08:18:33 PM2 votes last week and 1 this week.  WTF?  Justice for Hobart!!

I think if Hobart had rolled over RPI in the second half, it might have helped get a few more votes, but it's clear to me that the LL is not held in high esteem this year. In the past if Hobart beat Ithaca, Union and RPI and won the LL, they would definitely be in the top 25. The fact that both Ithaca and RPI lost to Endicott seems to have set a certain perception of the LL strength . Although Hobart lost to Randolph Macon in OT, it is still a loss. If those 3 games were LL team wins, th perception would be very different IMO.
 

I think that's part of it, but I also think it's because (i) Hobart has not been blowing teams out and (ii) Hobart wasn't ranked last year.  I've just come to the conclusion that there is no reasonable basis to make the cross-country comparison that a Top 25 requires; it's astrology, not science.  There is no reliable data point that tells you how Hobart compares to Marietta compares to Aurora compares to Grove City; it's a game of choose your confirmation bias.  (I think the best that can be said for D3's poll - and I mean this as a legit compliment given the inherit challenge of ranking without meaningful data - is that it reflects a diverse range of confirmation biases.)

Best for Hobart to appreciate the pollster snub as the bulletin board material fodder it is, and make their case on the field in November.  Assuming they win out, they should be around a 5 seed, meaning a first round buy and a winnable first game, maybe at home.  If you followed today's NPI religiously, they'd be playing at UMass-Dartmouth in the first round, then probably a Cortland or Salisbury in round 2. Obviously, that will change, and geographic seeding will introduce some irregularity, but that gives you a sense.

Yea a few things also need to be looked at though.  If you move Hobart up any further, what do you do with all those other teams.  Hell Those Wisconsin schools are impacting a lot here too.  Wisconsin Lacrosse lost by a TD to the #4 ranked d2 team in the country.  A lot of rankings are impacted by that game alone. 

Lake Forest?  Sure you could put Hobart over them, even though they haven't lost in a generally weaker league. 

UW Stoudt?  3 losses but one to Lacrosse by 2 points. 

Ursinus?  one loss to Hopkins and they have blown out some teams in the east.

John Carrol?  a close loss to Mt. Union and blown out by UWW.  OAC isn't great after that though even though they have rolled.

Berry/Randolph Macon:  RM beat Hobart and Berry beat RM.  Berry has 2 losses, one to an 8-0 #10 ranked Depaw and the other to a 6-2 Trinity Texas.

Alma/River Falls:  Now Alma has have 2 losses and have blown out everone else. They also have good history from last year.  Their losses are to 8-0 #17 Hope and one to receiving votes URiver falls.

Brockport:  so Brockport only has one loss to #6 Susquehanna and their wins aren't really super impressive within the E8

Coe?  one loss to #12 ranked Warthog by a TD.

Springfield?  8-0 and rolling New England teams and beat Union the same way Hobart did (I think to be fair I didn't watch either of those games)

Anyway a few of the above teams will lose again and Hobart probably wont. Expect them to move up and crack the top 25 before the playoffs. 

Here is my take.  The LL has proven without a doubt that it is at least in the top 15 leagues in D3 football.  Therefore, in almost every instance (I know some of you all-timers will mention an SLU team from decade ago), the champion of the LL deseres to be in the top 25.  As does the champ of the E8, NJAC, Centennial, etc....

Quote from: unionpalooza on November 05, 2024, 01:20:18 PMAs an aside, I got curious the other day about update NY football in the larger D3 context.  Over the past 24 years, there are now fewer than 7 programs in upstate that have Cortland, Brockport, SFJ, Ithaca, Union, Hobart, and RPI that have significant success.  All seven had at least 3 10-win seasons over that period and advanced to the second round of the NCAAs at least three times.  Union, Ithaca, RPI, Hobart and Brockport all have three 10-win seasons; Cortland has four and SJF has six.  In terms of the NCAAs, Cortland obviously went the farthest, but RPI, Brockport and SJF have all played in national semifinal games.

Not bad for an upstate NY region with six million people and a crowded mix of 15 D3 programs.  Ohio has double the population but only 18 schools, and only three programs with similar success (Mt. Union, JCU and Wittenberg.). Illinois has double the population but 17 programs and only two programs with similar success (NCU and Wheaton).  Minnesota has a similar population and number of D3 schools but only two with similar success (St. John's and Bethel), plus St. Thomas once upon a time.  Michigan has ten D3 schools and no program with similar success.  Wisconsin, on the other hand, is a beast.  I didn't bother to check PA, but suspect it looks more like upstate NY.

At any rate, this is all very nerdy, but I've always wondered whether one reason that upstate NY consistently produced good but not national-champion caliber programs was the extent to which there are a bunch of strong competing programs that cannibalize one another, and that does seem to be true to some extent.

Unionpalooza, you deserve a graduate degree in D3 football analysis. This post is one reason I really enjoy this board .