Quote from: Dustin_Patrón on November 23, 2024, 05:08:48 PM

Quote from: Another Mom on November 23, 2024, 04:26:55 PM

Quote from: Dustin_Patrón on November 23, 2024, 04:18:20 PM

Quote from: Another Mom on November 23, 2024, 04:16:30 PMRe the Williams game. They seemed like they were playing for penalties. As much as people hate on Amherst for the way they play, the same could really be said of Williams. More trash talking and fouling than most other teams. It seems like a NESCAC thing.

part of the game, mom

Not really.  Glad to see it wasn't successful today.

Physicality, fouling, trash talk... characterize NESCAC soccer however you'd like, but today NESCAC soccer was successful, Mom.

NESCAC schools represented 8 of the initial 64 teams (12.5%)
They now account for 3 of the remaining 8 teams (37.5%)

The numbers don't lie, enough whining.

Hahah what a colossally douchey comment, Dustin. What you lack in class you amply make up for in math skills bud!   

Quote from: EnmoreCat on November 23, 2024, 08:00:02 PMI get your points jknezek, but you also have NESCAC's sixth ranked team making the elite eight, which probably speaks to how tight the conference is.  I previously mentioned Conn is easily the best sixth ranked team in the whole of D3 and have easily justified their inclusion.

Conn Col were the 6th team in the NESCAC at the end of the regular season. They were the 5th ranked by NPI in the country after the NESCAC tournament, and the 4th ranked NESCAC squad. 2-0-1 in the tournament makes a big difference when you only play 10 conference games. It's like having another 1/3 of the season, and hard to simply ignore.

I highly doubt you would get anyone who thinks Williams, Conn Col, Amherst, Tufts or Middlebury deserve to be left out. I'd be hard pressed to say Wesleyan didn't deserve to be in. 8-6-4 and 8-6-5 are harder to swallow. A team that goes 2-4-4 in conference is... real hard for me to accept. Conn College may have been 6th entering the NESCAC tournament, but they had only lost twice all season. I don't love this world of 5+ ties, but at least they weren't pairing it with the same number of losses.

Quote from: jknezek on November 23, 2024, 07:43:38 PM

Quote from: Dustin_Patrón on November 23, 2024, 05:08:48 PM

Quote from: Another Mom on November 23, 2024, 04:26:55 PM

Quote from: Dustin_Patrón on November 23, 2024, 04:18:20 PM

Quote from: Another Mom on November 23, 2024, 04:16:30 PMRe the Williams game. They seemed like they were playing for penalties. As much as people hate on Amherst for the way they play, the same could really be said of Williams. More trash talking and fouling than most other teams. It seems like a NESCAC thing.

part of the game, mom

Not really.  Glad to see it wasn't successful today.

Physicality, fouling, trash talk... characterize NESCAC soccer however you'd like, but today NESCAC soccer was successful, Mom.

NESCAC schools represented 8 of the initial 64 teams (12.5%)
They now account for 3 of the remaining 8 teams (37.5%)

The numbers don't lie, enough whining.

Ha. Numbers don't lie, but there's a lot of ways of interpreting them.

The NESCAC were seeds 1,2,4,5,6, 16, 24, and 30. All 8 should have made the second round and did (top half of the seeds). Right on schedule.

6 should have made the Sweet 16, only 5 did.

5 should make the elite 8, only 3 did. Not great.

3 should make the Final Four and both Finals teams should be NESCAC schools.

Anything else is underperformance again.

They could pretty much meet expectations, I'm a little doubtful but it's possible.

But again, no one said the top 4 or 5 NESCAC teams shouldn't be in. Of course they should. It's teams 6, 7, and 8 that some have problems with. Hamilton, Bowdoin and Wesleyan certainly did no better than expected, so I think it's still very much an open case whether the NESCAC should have had 8 in the field.

Pointing out that the chalk is beating the cheese is not exceptional, it's expected, and it's hardly a case closing argument. If anything, having the 2, 6, and 16 seeds underperform is not the best look.

This is a bankrupt argument, on all sides, if you ask me. And tiresome.

Anyone who thinks the NESCAC is underperforming in this tournament, with 3 of the final eight—and one being the team that finished 6th in the conference—is smoking something. Perfectly legal in Vermont, btw, so have at it.

BTW—I was on my regular text string with my W&L best friends (6 in total, 5 PTBAGers, including one in the record books) this afternoon, and one threw this out: "Bucket, you better not be rooting for this purple cow team." Of course not! My allegiances are clear—Panthers/Generals/Red Devils—so I'm not a NESCAC homer.

Further musings, probably only interesting to me:

The Bucket Trinity all advance to the Elite Eight. Alas, sides must now be drawn, and I officially notified Little Bucket, a freshman at Dickinson, that I'll be cheering for W&L tomorrow. I know his Aunt Sarah, a Red Devil alumna, will join him in fandom. His mother is a W&L alumna, as his grandfather, and late-great-grandfather. Have not queried their allegiances, at least his mom and grandad. My grandfather, W&L Class of 1927, would be fiercely cheering for the Generals.


• The Middlebury pod: I mean, folks who didn't watch the game, and if they did watched on a screen, can say differently, but weather was definitely a factor this afternoon. (I've just now regained feeling in my extremities.) Cold, wet, very windy, with windchill in the low 30s. What Babson did at half and what Trinity did was eye-opening, and much commented upon. And the play the second half bore this out. (Also a factor, Trinity could easily have been up 2-nil at the half. This psychological dig, combined with conditions, could have been a brutal combo.)
• Another geographical factor: the game is played differently—and, more crucially and to the point—called differently in the northeast. Very physical and officials allow it to be so. I can say for a fact, this bothered CMS to a great degree. Not making a value judgement, not saying one way is right, the other wrong, but it's a discernible factor.
• In the midwest: Watched the end of UWS and Amherst. Very impressed with the home team (Wisconsin-Eue Claire) announcers, though one curiously had a British accent that faded in and out with flat Wisconsin sound. Anyway, The game ended appropriately, on the pitch and not PKs, especially with UWS playing a man down. They desperately wanted to get to pens. Congrats to the Lord Mammoths for not letting it happen.
  
• Down south, in my home state of Virginia: We've already talked about the head-scratching results from the Kenyon PKs. The Camels have the pk mojo, for sure. Was not surprised in the least, though still greatly disappointed, to hear the announcer relay that a bench warning had been given to the Camels when one Conn player ran halfway onto the field to taunt a Kenyon player who had just missed a pk. 

More tomorrow. Can't wait.

"Very impressed with the home team (Wisconsin-Eue Claire) announcers, though one curiously had a British accent that faded in and out with flat Wisconsin sound."

I am with you on this Bucket, for those of us watching in the antipodes (me and Sister of Enmore Kitten, it was a little unnerving to hear that not so subtle change.  I will say I am not sure they consulted the name pronunciation guide before they called the game, but I've heard worse. 

For the record, I don't actually think the NESCAC is underperforming. I've said many times it's the best conference in the country, by a fairly long shot, and that they deserved 5 or 6 bids. Having 3 in the Elite Eight, given the vagaries of soccer, is proof that, for the most part, their teams were right where they should be.

However, saying that having 3 in the Elite Eight proves the 6th, 7th, and 8th admitted team from the NESCAC deserved to be there, and that it's an open and shut case, is pretty ridiculous. None of those teams progressed past where the ranking they were assigned showed they should have gotten.

To me that means they were viable options for those seeds. I think there were other viable options for those seeds that could have done just as well. The fact that none underperformed means that making an argument they didn't deserve to be there is equally dicey. There simply isn't much to hang your hat on either way.

Again, the NESCAC is the top conference in the country. Their dominance over the last decade is astonishing. That doesn't mean a team that went 2-4-4 in conference and 8-6-5 overall was necessarily the right choice for the tournament field over a lot of other teams that had outstanding seasons. It does mean that the NESCAC deserves more bids than anyone else right now. 5 or 6? No problem. 8 of 11 teams? I'm still less than convinced.

Quote from: EnmoreCat on November 23, 2024, 08:25:25 PM"Very impressed with the home team (Wisconsin-Eue Claire) announcers, though one curiously had a British accent that faded in and out with flat Wisconsin sound."

I am with you on this Bucket, for those of us watching in the antipodes (me and Sister of Enmore Kitten, it was a little unnerving to hear that not so subtle change.  I will say I am not sure they consulted the name pronunciation guide before they called the game, but I've heard worse. 

Yeah, definitely heard them mispronounce Enmore Kitten's name. But as a PA announcer who has inadvertently butchered names on occasion, I didn't want to call them out on that one!

Quote from: jknezek on November 23, 2024, 08:27:34 PMFor the record, I don't actually think the NESCAC is underperforming. I've said many times it's the best conference in the country, by a fairly long shot, and that they deserved 5 or 6 bids. Having 3 in the Elite Eight, given the vagaries of soccer, is proof that, for the most part, their teams were right where they should be.

However, saying that having 3 in the Elite Eight proves the 6th, 7th, and 8th admitted team from the NESCAC deserved to be there, and that it's an open and shut case, is pretty ridiculous. None of those teams progressed past where the ranking they were assigned showed they should have gotten.

To me that means they were viable options for those seeds. I think there were other viable options for those seeds that could have done just as well. The fact that none underperformed means that making an argument they didn't deserve to be there is equally dicey. There simply isn't much to hang your hat on either way.

Again, the NESCAC is the top conference in the country. Their dominance over the last decade is astonishing. That doesn't mean a team that went 2-4-4 in conference and 8-6-5 overall was necessarily the right choice for the tournament field over a lot of other teams that had outstanding seasons. It does mean that the NESCAC deserves more bids than anyone else right now. 5 or 6? No problem. 8 of 11 teams? I'm still less than convinced.

You'd get no argument from me.

And, hopefully, you wouldn't find anyone who would say this outside of Clinton, Brunswick, or Middletown. (As much as I love the coaches at Bowdoin.)

Quote from: EnmoreCat on November 23, 2024, 08:25:25 PM"Very impressed with the home team (Wisconsin-Eue Claire) announcers, though one curiously had a British accent that faded in and out with flat Wisconsin sound."

I am with you on this Bucket, for those of us watching in the antipodes (me and Sister of Enmore Kitten, it was a little unnerving to hear that not so subtle change.  I will say I am not sure they consulted the name pronunciation guide before they called the game, but I've heard worse. 

Don't people know that an announcer with a British accent is heads and tails better, just like coaching at the youth level!! So much more qualified.

Middlebury's play by play must have started on radio and thinks we are all blind.

Quote from: SierraFD3soccer on November 23, 2024, 09:28:36 PMDon't people know that an announcer with a British accent is heads and tails better, just like coaching at the youth level!! So much more qualified.

Hilarious and so true!

Quote from: SierraFD3soccer on November 23, 2024, 09:28:36 PM

Quote from: EnmoreCat on November 23, 2024, 08:25:25 PM"Very impressed with the home team (Wisconsin-Eue Claire) announcers, though one curiously had a British accent that faded in and out with flat Wisconsin sound."

I am with you on this Bucket, for those of us watching in the antipodes (me and Sister of Enmore Kitten, it was a little unnerving to hear that not so subtle change.  I will say I am not sure they consulted the name pronunciation guide before they called the game, but I've heard worse. 

Don't people know that an announcer with a British accent is heads and tails better, just like coaching at the youth level!! So much more qualified.

Middlebury's play by play must have started on radio and thinks we are all blind.

Come on, my friend. The Bruce Bosley-Dave Saward combo is as good as it gets.

And yes, everything sounds more erudite in a British accent. To wit: During Midd-CMS, CMS assistant coach, expressing displeasure with a call, exclaims: "You sir, are a clown." In the Queen's English. Brought a smile to my face.

Quote from: Bucket on November 23, 2024, 08:18:44 PMThis is a bankrupt argument, on all sides, if you ask me. And tiresome.

This whole NESCAC stand off on these boards is tiresome.  Some of us are actually trying to enjoy the games.  As long as the competition is worthy as it has been no one else seems to care about the conferences at this point.

Quote from: Bucket on November 23, 2024, 08:18:44 PM

The Bucket Trinity all advance to the Elite Eight. Alas, sides must now be drawn, and I officially notified Little Bucket, a freshman at Dickinson, that I'll be cheering for W&L tomorrow. I know his Aunt Sarah, a Red Devil alumna, will join him in fandom. His mother is a W&L alumna, as his grandfather, and late-great-grandfather. Have not queried their allegiances, at least his mom and grandad. My grandfather, W&L Class of 1927, would be fiercely cheering for the Generals.

Will you have security at your Thanksgiving dinner?

Interesting that every thread gets sucked into a NESCAC argument, instead of discussing all the remarkable soccer.

Good luck to the final 8.

Took in the pair of games in Fredericksburg yesterday.  Both were worth the time and effort.

I really feel for the kids at UMW, who played a heck of a game, but just could not find the back of the net.  Controlled the midfield for much of the contest and forced the Denison keeper into at least one very good save.  The winning goal came on a set piece from the left wing - the UMW defender committed an unnecessary foul 40 yards from the goal.  Keeper came off his line for a punch, did not get enough of it and a flicked header at the back post won it.  Tough for those seniors at UMW to lose like that.

Game two.  PN, your Owls played well.  As I saw it, the stats do not tell the story of the game (they show that the Camels outshot the Owls 21-8).  I saw it as a much closer affair.  The Owls first was a deflection off a Conn defender that wrong footed Silvester and dribbled into the net.  Conn equalized on a nice sequence up the left wing.

In the end, the two most important goals of the day (the Denison winner and Conn equalizer) came from virtually the same place on the left wing, both off set pieces.  On the Conn equalizer, an in-swinger from Jaran was attacked at about the penalty spot by a Conn attacker, who did not make contact with the ball (just over his head).  My suspicion is the Kenyon keeper misread that the Conn player was going to get it and therefore, was wrong footed as it found the net at the back post.

No need to comment on the penalties.  They were what they were.  I feel for the Kenyon kids b/c they played a heck of a game and for multiple segments of the game, they were superior.

With apologies to those who are looking for less NESCAC discourse, NESCAC teams are 13-2-5 (77.5%) here at the halfway mark of the tournament (the champion in waiting has just earned its third of six results).  We'll see how the remaining three fare today (and potentially beyond) but only two of the eight teams have gone out by loss to date.

No one has commented on the Dickinson Buffalo State game yesterday. I watched some of the 1st half -- Dickinson is a really strong team. From what I saw they dominated the game. W&L will have their work cut out for them!