When I've gone to Salem, I've flown to DC and dealt with the 3+ hour (if lucky) drive to get into town.  Lots and lots of flights to pick from, unlike the closer regional in Roanoke (or BWI, which is an hour further).

But then again, I'm one of those Texas guys who is used to driving several hours.

Quote from: PaulNewman on December 01, 2024, 09:17:48 AMOn Midd (and yeah, Freddy, no more than a few more posts I promise), much ado about nothing.  Nobody said Midd ever choked.  I think all but the "If you don't have a title in your program history you can never be one of us" folks, even if they're clinging to something from 30 years ago, recognize that a program with multiple Sweet 16s and Elite 8s over the past six to eight years is one of the most elite D3 soccer programs.  And yes, I've heard once or twice about 2007.

The truth of the matter is that among these four remaining outstanding programs, Midd is the only one that had not made a Final Four during a very healthy period for the program, and now they are indeed facing their arch-nemesis.  I'm sure most of us are rooting for Midd in that one at a minimum, so I really don't think there is any ill will being directed at Midd. 

These comparisons are impossible, but Midd has been among the top 2-3 teams all season.  Incredibly impressive year. A strong case can be made for Mary Wash still being the best team of 2024...and for a while there Tufts could legitimately argue about being #1, #2, or #3...and of course Amherst is always lurking outside the shower curtain, BUT...Midd has hardly spent a single day of 2024 being viewed as anything lower than #3 or #4 in the entire country, and I would guess that most here would rate Midd as the second-best squad.  I personally would vote for Midd as the #2 team of the 2024 season.  Lofty assessments and expectations add a good dose of pressure.  Raising the issue of Midd needing a bit more of a "break through" moment compared to the other three all-star programs just doesn't resonate as even mildly unfair.  We'd be saying the exact same thing about Hopkins, Kenyon, Cortland, F&M, Trinity.  Let's look at it from one other perspective.  Out of Tufts, Amherst, Conn, Williams, and Midd, which one of those five hasn't made a national final in the past decade?

Everything you say is fair and reasonable, generous even. I was reacting more to the poster and his history of comments re: Middlebury than anything else. My apologies.

Quote from: Another Mom on December 01, 2024, 07:46:37 AMBack to the decision to hold the Final Four in Las Vegas . . .

It is costing parents $5,000 to go support their team, between lodging and airfare. There are parents and other supporters that just cannot afford that! I know of people that wanted to come but now cannot because of the cost.

I cannot believe the NCAA intentionally wanted to harm non-wealthy families and supporters, but that's exactly what they've done. Is there any official channel through which I can give this feedback?

I totally get this, but it's not like there aren't any teams in the middle and western parts of the country who aren't equally disadvantaged whenever the Final Four is located in the east.  There was a stretch from 2009-2015 where the final four was hosted in the middle of the country (2009-2013 in San Antonio and 2014-2015 in Kansas City) as kind of a nod to this notion that it's a national tournament.  The only time the Final Four has ever been hosted at a site anywhere west of the central time zone was in 1991 at UC San Diego.  So, while I think NCAA logistics and finances are probably a bigger factor, I don't think the NCAA is unaware of the issue, but they probably recognize that it goes both ways and it's both more equitable and good for business (in terms of expanding awareness of DIII soccer) to spread things out every once in awhile.  Cal Lutheran, after all, won the women's national championship last year in Roanoke and many (if not most) of its families couldn't afford to be there.

The bigger complaint is probably the choice of a city and state that is literally devoid of DIII soccer.  UNC Greensboro has hosted the DIII Final Four more than any other site and is no longer in DIII, but it at least used to be in DIII and there are schools in the general vicinity and schools that are currently in or might be considering a move to DIII, so it might draw neutrals to watch.  That's not really true in Vegas.  Nevada State University, a 22 year-old small state school in nearby Henderson, Nevada, has proposed starting an athletics program and the Board of Regents is scheduled to vote on the funding for the athletics program at its meeting on Dec. 4-5, but the proposal is not guaranteed to pass and they intend to start with track and field and women's flag football only, so that would be a particularly long play if the NCAA had foreseen this when it selected Las Vegas unless they have reason to believe that the NAIA schools in Arizona and California might join together with Nevada State to form a new DIII conference.

I guess it is not only the location that's an issue, it is the surprising lack of accomodations available at short notice. At this point the hotel rooms available in Las Vegas are between $500 - $1000/night, or, you have to go pretty far outside the city. Admittedly I have not investigated every single option, but broadly this is accurate. All the usual chains (Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt etc) are fully booked.

Short notice? I don't understand 3 weeks ago (when every team selected for tourney was known) there were plenty of rooms all over Vegas for reasonable prices. There are still
Rooms available for $261 a night.

Why didn't you book everything early, as it all can be cancelled?  What am I missing?

Quote from: Bucket on December 01, 2024, 11:48:42 AM

Quote from: PaulNewman on December 01, 2024, 09:17:48 AMOn Midd (and yeah, Freddy, no more than a few more posts I promise), much ado about nothing.  Nobody said Midd ever choked.  I think all but the "If you don't have a title in your program history you can never be one of us" folks, even if they're clinging to something from 30 years ago, recognize that a program with multiple Sweet 16s and Elite 8s over the past six to eight years is one of the most elite D3 soccer programs.  And yes, I've heard once or twice about 2007.

The truth of the matter is that among these four remaining outstanding programs, Midd is the only one that had not made a Final Four during a very healthy period for the program, and now they are indeed facing their arch-nemesis.  I'm sure most of us are rooting for Midd in that one at a minimum, so I really don't think there is any ill will being directed at Midd. 

These comparisons are impossible, but Midd has been among the top 2-3 teams all season.  Incredibly impressive year. A strong case can be made for Mary Wash still being the best team of 2024...and for a while there Tufts could legitimately argue about being #1, #2, or #3...and of course Amherst is always lurking outside the shower curtain, BUT...Midd has hardly spent a single day of 2024 being viewed as anything lower than #3 or #4 in the entire country, and I would guess that most here would rate Midd as the second-best squad.  I personally would vote for Midd as the #2 team of the 2024 season.  Lofty assessments and expectations add a good dose of pressure.  Raising the issue of Midd needing a bit more of a "break through" moment compared to the other three all-star programs just doesn't resonate as even mildly unfair.  We'd be saying the exact same thing about Hopkins, Kenyon, Cortland, F&M, Trinity.  Let's look at it from one other perspective.  Out of Tufts, Amherst, Conn, Williams, and Midd, which one of those five hasn't made a national final in the past decade?

Everything you say is fair and reasonable, generous even. I was reacting more to the poster and his history of comments re: Middlebury than anything else. My apologies.

Please, no apologies needed.  You're doing what you do.  I'm doing what I do.  SC does what he does.
Entertainment....if we were launching a sitcom, we already know exactly what roles all of the more active posters would play.  At this point, it's not that difficult to predict who will jump in where and with what response on most any topic.  Pretty much like clockwork.

Quote from: SKUD on December 01, 2024, 12:25:53 PMShort notice? I don't understand 3 weeks ago (when every team selected for tourney was known) there were plenty of rooms all over Vegas for reasonable prices. There are still
Rooms available for $261 a night.

Why didn't you book everything early, as it all can be cancelled?  What am I missing?

I guess I am an idiot for not booking as soon as W&L made the Tournament.  Should every one of the 64 teams that made the Tournament also have booked rooms then? In any case, I guess there are a lot of us idiots out there, as I've heard from recent alums who decided they wanted to come, along with current families.

Quote from: SKUD on December 01, 2024, 12:25:53 PMShort notice? I don't understand 3 weeks ago (when every team selected for tourney was known) there were plenty of rooms all over Vegas for reasonable prices. There are still
Rooms available for $261 a night.

Why didn't you book everything early, as it all can be cancelled?  What am I missing?

A bit unrealistic. 64 teams x 20 players is 1280 hotel rooms for one room per parent reserved. Both men's and women's teams makes for 2560 hotel rooms.

The game is actually in Paradise Nevada, about 15 minutes in no traffic from downtown. Not much listed in Paradise itself, but certainly not 2560 rooms. The Strip would suck that up no problem if there weren't a huge convention going on.

But I guarantee if 2500 more hotel rooms, spiralling out from Paradise were reserved a few weeks ago, they would have gotten very expensive, very fast. As they were cancelled it probably would have come down some, but the Strip is abnormally expensive right now for reasons unrelated to a soccer tournament.

In other words, staying on the far side of Paradise from the strip you can probably find those Holiday Inns for $150-200 a night, but the other side, toward the Strip, wouldn't have mattered one little bit 3 weeks ago vs today.

Quote from: SKUD on December 01, 2024, 12:25:53 PMShort notice? I don't understand 3 weeks ago (when every team selected for tourney was known) there were plenty of rooms all over Vegas for reasonable prices. There are still
Rooms available for $261 a night.

Why didn't you book everything early, as it all can be cancelled?  What am I missing?

First, it's not accurate. Yes, the Motel 6 was available, but most the more mid-range chains were pretty outrageous when I was looking at hotels before the Elite Eight games were played. Flights from DC, ATL, CLT were also well in excess of $800 for red-eyes.

Second, it's the recent alums and wider communities that really miss out from this. At the Final Four in Greensboro, there were two W&L alums in their 80s who had played for a national championship in their day and made the trek, in addition to scores of young alums who made it work. (Most) parents will find a way, but the atmosphere will be more like an ECNL tourney than a college championship.

Third, the NCAA could have acted like any other convention and blocked rooms and made them available to travelers from the schools. They will do that for the revenue sports. I do recognize this would not be expected, but with the convention calendar very public and overbooked, it would have been appropriate foresight. There's also a large NCAA wrestling tourney the same weekend, and they blocked off hotels.

Finally, the idea that supporters are to be faulted for not booking in advance and cancelling is kind of absurd. As it is, my reservation is non-cancellable, but even if it were...

As far as giving feedback, don't hold your breath.

Quote from: PaulNewman on December 01, 2024, 09:17:48 AMOn Midd (and yeah, Freddy, no more than a few more posts I promise), much ado about nothing.  Nobody said Midd ever choked.  I think all but the "If you don't have a title in your program history you can never be one of us" folks, even if they're clinging to something from 30 years ago, recognize that a program with multiple Sweet 16s and Elite 8s over the past six to eight years is one of the most elite D3 soccer programs.  And yes, I've heard once or twice about 2007.

The truth of the matter is that among these four remaining outstanding programs, Midd is the only one that had not made a Final Four during a very healthy period for the program, and now they are indeed facing their arch-nemesis.  I'm sure most of us are rooting for Midd in that one at a minimum, so I really don't think there is any ill will being directed at Midd. 

These comparisons are impossible, but Midd has been among the top 2-3 teams all season.  Incredibly impressive year. A strong case can be made for Mary Wash still being the best team of 2024...and for a while there Tufts could legitimately argue about being #1, #2, or #3...and of course Amherst is always lurking outside the shower curtain, BUT...Midd has hardly spent a single day of 2024 being viewed as anything lower than #3 or #4 in the entire country, and I would guess that most here would rate Midd as the second-best squad.  I personally would vote for Midd as the #2 team of the 2024 season.  Lofty assessments and expectations add a good dose of pressure.  Raising the issue of Midd needing a bit more of a "break through" moment compared to the other three all-star programs just doesn't resonate as even mildly unfair.  We'd be saying the exact same thing about Hopkins, Kenyon, Cortland, F&M, Trinity.  Let's look at it from one other perspective.  Out of Tufts, Amherst, Conn, Williams, and Midd, which one of those five hasn't made a national final in the past decade?

Thanks @PaulNewman.  For the record, in the last ranking of the regular season, I have Middlebury 2nd in the country.

SC.

Airbnb has several affordable options.

Looks like there is no great solution on a host site for the championship.

I think any field not made
of grass should be ruled out as a site for NCAAs.

IMO Fields like Hopkins/ Wis EC (lined for 4-6) are an embarrassment to the sport and should never be be permitted to host unless they can find a nearby proper grass field.

It's really the worst weekend for them to have the tournament there.  Not only is there wrestling and conventions, but George Strait is also playing at Allegiant that weekend which is bringing in a ton of people.  There really isn't anything you can say to defend the decision to have it there.

I'm hearing whispers that the SimpleCoach Media Empire is using its enormous wealth and influence to negotiate the development of a soccer-only tournament venue right outside of Raleigh-Durham. Sure it'll require flights, but the facility will include hotels, restaurants, and 8 grass fields using a cross of Bluegrass, Kentucky Bluegrass, Featherbed Bent, and Northern California Sinsemilla. The amazing thing about this stuff is that you can play 4 back-to-back games on it in the afternoon, take it home and just get stoned to the bejeezus-belt that night on this stuff.

Caddyshack reference FTW.