OMG, I realize now why Hobart lost. Our TOP wasn't even 20 minutes for the entire game. This can be squarely blamed on the offensive line and EJ Taylor who broke open for a 77 yard TD run and another for 82 yards. If he would have kept to a reasonable 5 yards a carry on each drive, we could have been even on TOP for the game. Scoring too fast is really a problem .  

Not to be condescending, but it's not always a great thing to score at will! Back in like 2015, Cortland was able to score at will but defensively wasn't more than a consistent speed bump. Different scenario but there are some parallels.

Obviously you take your points when you can, but when dictating the tempo is feasible, do so! I'd say those scores were opportunistic.

Hobart has played solid D all year, but when struggling to get stops like Saturday, a long drive gives the stop troops time to recharge. It can also throw the offense out of their rhythm. Was a good year for you guys.

Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on December 01, 2024, 05:35:37 PMNot to be condescending, but it's not always a great thing to score at will! Back in like 2015, Cortland was able to score at will but defensively wasn't more than a consistent speed bump. Different scenario but there are some parallels.

Obviously you take your points when you can, but when dictating the tempo is feasible, do so! I'd say those scores were opportunistic.

Hobart has played solid D all year, but when struggling to get stops like Saturday, a long drive gives the stop troops time to recharge. It can also throw the offense out of their rhythm. Was a good year for you guys.

Thanks Red. I was kinda half serious about the effect of getting quick scores, but we didn't have much time to get back in it. The D didn't get much rest but they certainly stiffened on the run stopping. The Susquehanna passing game was way better than anything we saw all year...kinda reminded me of the Cortland scrimmage. Not sure it was a factor, but I did not agree with the two onside kicks, that were too easy for SU to field and then giving the short field to a skilled offense was not smart in my opinion. Oh well, proud of the Hobart team and the season.Good luck to Cortland the rest of the way, we will be pulling for you.

A bit of a discussion question for the group, would you all consider this a down year for the LL? Ithaca, RPI and Union all having relative down years and Hobart being bounced in the first round. Curious to hear everyone's thoughts!

Quote from: ICAlum16 on December 03, 2024, 08:55:06 AMA bit of a discussion question for the group, would you all consider this a down year for the LL? Ithaca, RPI and Union all having relative down years and Hobart being bounced in the first round. Curious to hear everyone's thoughts!

I think overall it's a slightly 'down' year, but nothing like the year 5-5 St. Lawrence went to the postseason. The LL was a tiny notch below some beasts this year, they just couldn't win the big games. But I don't think the talent level and competitiveness took a major hit.

Ithaca/RPI were as good as Endicott. Endicott narrowly lost to Hardin-Simmons and Cortland. Ithaca narrowly lost to Johns Hopkins and had a shot against Cortland. Hobart lost in OT to Randolph-Macon and just lost by 7 to Susquehanna. I feel like our teams were right there, they just couldn't win the big ones when it mattered. Having Union be down again didn't help. Rochester was a bit of a paper lion where they were actually pretty good most of the year, but 1 injury decimated them and they just weren't super competitive after that.

I think we will look at it as a down year when all the dust settles, but I think there's reason to be optimistic. If Cortland/Endicott etc are considered top tier these days, we aren't far behind and might see 1 or more top 10 teams in the next few years. I feel like the 'gap' in D3 has closed considerably.

Ithaca really doesn't impact my perception of the LL from last year.

Last season against Hopkins, Endicott and Cortland, the Bombers had a 1-2 record and -17 point differential
This year against Hopkins, Endicott and Cortland, the Bombers had an 0-3 record and -21 point differential

Yeah, one coin flip game that went their way last year didn't this year. (They were lucky to get out of Endicott with that W last year) But they were essentially the same program. Their Hobart result was zero sum for the league.

RPI had similar results against their common OOC opponents. They swapped two easier games for two tough ones and took Ls. Which is unfortunate for the league. More concerning for me was that I think their Ithaca result probably shows a bigger gap between our top 2 teams and the rest of the conference than we'd like

Union on the other hand? To go from winning a playoff game to losing to the 5th place teams in the LL and the E8? Not good.

Ultimately, I place a value on winning tough games, and the LL taking what essentially was an 0-for aint it. That's the bigger problem

Overall the talent in the LL seemed as good as any other other year, with the exception of QB.  No team had a dominant QB, like we have had in past years.  I can't name them all, and am too lazy to look them up...but from Herman to Sweeney to Germinierio to Marinopoulis to Nabi, we have had some great QB play.  Defenses were as good as ever and Taylor was as strong an RB as we have seen recently.  I do agree that we came up short in the OOC important games.  Hard to say that Hobart getting "bounced" first (in reality second) round was a surprise.  It wasn't your typical first round game against a more typical East Coast pushover.   

I think it was a good year with some solid talent and some increased parity in the league. We just didn't have those two, or three solid OOC wins. One thing that was odd for me was the already mentioned sub par QB play in the league. I'm hoping that improves next season.

I don't know all that much about Hobart from this season outside of the scrimmage report, IC game, and Playoff game. But...

Based on what I've heard and saw, I don't know how much more a team could realistically progress in one season! Cortland scored at will in the August scrimmage. R-M was  played to the wire at a time when Bart was still a LL underdog. They beat a good Ithaca team who played a tough schedule, and then went toe to toe with a team that had offensive weapons oozing all over the field!

Hobart advanced through a steep learning curve and succeeded. Personally, I believe the optics of a weaker Liberty League were rooted in a dark horse taking the reins. Swap UofR's record with Unions, and the appearance may change a bit. The final result in playoff performance was probably the same, but it came from somewhere unexpected this year.

Was 2024 a down year for the LL? On balance, the answer is yes , but some of that is the best teams just did not get it done against a more difficult OOC schedule.  LL was 24-10 last year against a lighter OOC schedule, but having a 14-15 result in 2024 was not good. Last year we had 2 teams in the playoffs but only had our automatic this year. Ithaca and Union were rewarded with top 25 rankings by both going 1-1 in the NCAA playoffs last year.  Unfortunately, Hobart will unlikely crack the Top 25 in the D3.com poll. Perhaps the NPI rankings were more accurate where Hobart was #20. Quick team review:

Hobart(+), improved over 2023 but couldn't beat 2 strong OOC teams
Ithaca(NC), looked about the same as last year except for the loss to a stronger Hobart team
Union(--), dropped from an NCAA playoff team to a losing record
RPI(-), was slightly down compared to a bowl win last year , lost to Rochester
Rochester(+), improved considerably but lacked the depth to finish well
St Lawrence(NC) , St.Lawrence, beating a down Union team not enough to show improvement
Buffalo State(+), slight improvement over last years performance, beating Uof R

So 3 teams improved( Hobart, UofR and Buffalo), 2 teams were unchanged(Ithaca and SLU) and two of the traditionally "top 4 " had down years, with Union having the biggest drop off.This is , my opinion only, but based on performance in the post season, I think Hobart rallying in a 42-35 loss to #6 SU was a better look for the league than Ithaca getting crushed 42-0 by #7 Randolph Macon in the 2023 playoff. Bottom line, yes it was a down year for the LL overall and will be reflected in the D3.com league rankings when the dust settles.

Quote from: Bartman on December 05, 2024, 12:23:48 PMWas 2024 a down year for the LL? On balance, the answer is yes , but some of that is the best teams just did not get it done against a more difficult OOC schedule.  LL was 24-10 last year against a lighter OOC schedule, but having a 14-15 result in 2024 was not good. Last year we had 2 teams in the playoffs but only had our automatic this year. Ithaca and Union were rewarded with top 25 rankings by both going 1-1 in the NCAA playoffs last year.  Unfortunately, Hobart will unlikely crack the Top 25 in the D3.com poll. Perhaps the NPI rankings were more accurate where Hobart was #20. Quick team review:

Hobart(+), improved over 2023 but couldn't beat 2 strong OOC teams
Ithaca(NC), looked about the same as last year except for the loss to a stronger Hobart team
Union(--), dropped from an NCAA playoff team to a losing record
RPI(-), was slightly down compared to a bowl win last year , lost to Rochester
Rochester(+), improved considerably but lacked the depth to finish well
St Lawrence(NC) , St.Lawrence, beating a down Union team not enough to show improvement
Buffalo State(+), slight improvement over last years performance, beating Uof R

So 3 teams improved( Hobart, UofR and Buffalo), 2 teams were unchanged(Ithaca and SLU) and two of the traditionally "top 4 " had down years, with Union having the biggest drop off.This is , my opinion only, but based on performance in the post season, I think Hobart rallying in a 42-35 loss to #6 SU was a better look for the league than Ithaca getting crushed 42-0 by #7 Randolph Macon in the 2023 playoff. Bottom line, yes it was a down year for the LL overall and will be reflected in the D3.com league rankings when the dust settles.

I think as Oline89 has pointed out the QB situation is the biggest issue this year.  I also don't think Ithaca is the same as they were last year although they did figure out their QB situation as the season progressed.  But Wingfield made IC a different team than IC was after they got hurt.  Not sure what happened to the RPI QB but he dropped a notch as did the RPI QB.  I only saw the Hobart QB once and he was not impressive (compared to a Boyes type player).  But that is how football generally goes.  You need that QB to separate yourself from the rest of the pack.

Quote from: Jonny Utah on December 05, 2024, 12:35:19 PM

Quote from: Bartman on December 05, 2024, 12:23:48 PMWas 2024 a down year for the LL? On balance, the answer is yes , but some of that is the best teams just did not get it done against a more difficult OOC schedule.  LL was 24-10 last year against a lighter OOC schedule, but having a 14-15 result in 2024 was not good. Last year we had 2 teams in the playoffs but only had our automatic this year. Ithaca and Union were rewarded with top 25 rankings by both going 1-1 in the NCAA playoffs last year.  Unfortunately, Hobart will unlikely crack the Top 25 in the D3.com poll. Perhaps the NPI rankings were more accurate where Hobart was #20. Quick team review:

Hobart(+), improved over 2023 but couldn't beat 2 strong OOC teams
Ithaca(NC), looked about the same as last year except for the loss to a stronger Hobart team
Union(--), dropped from an NCAA playoff team to a losing record
RPI(-), was slightly down compared to a bowl win last year , lost to Rochester
Rochester(+), improved considerably but lacked the depth to finish well
St Lawrence(NC) , St.Lawrence, beating a down Union team not enough to show improvement
Buffalo State(+), slight improvement over last years performance, beating Uof R

So 3 teams improved( Hobart, UofR and Buffalo), 2 teams were unchanged(Ithaca and SLU) and two of the traditionally "top 4 " had down years, with Union having the biggest drop off.This is , my opinion only, but based on performance in the post season, I think Hobart rallying in a 42-35 loss to #6 SU was a better look for the league than Ithaca getting crushed 42-0 by #7 Randolph Macon in the 2023 playoff. Bottom line, yes it was a down year for the LL overall and will be reflected in the D3.com league rankings when the dust settles.

I think as Oline89 has pointed out the QB situation is the biggest issue this year.  I also don't think Ithaca is the same as they were last year although they did figure out their QB situation as the season progressed.  But Wingfield made IC a different team than IC was after they got hurt.  Not sure what happened to the RPI QB but he dropped a notch as did the RPI QB.  I only saw the Hobart QB once and he was not impressive (compared to a Boyes type player).  But that is how football generally goes.  You need that QB to separate yourself from the rest of the pack.

Jonny Utah's posts have dropped a notch, as did Jonny Utah's posts.

Jonny U,
   "I only saw the Hobart QB once and he was not impressive (compared to a Boyes type player). " . Well yea, Boyes is the top D3 QB , IMO. Colombi was the LL coaches choice as best in 2024. He got better as the season matured( see last drive against SU where he threw 3 straight completions and went 75 yards , not too shabby). But, I agree with everyone that QB play wasn't great this year.

Time will tell, but all the haters may owe the NPI an apology.  So far this year, the NPI has accurately predicted the winner of 21 of the 24 play-in and first round playoff games.  That compares favorably to last year, where the old system was only "right" (i.e., the home team only won) in 12 of the 16 first round games.

Also interesting is that the NPI has outperformed the end-of-regular-season D3F Top 25, which accurately predicted only 17 of the first 24 games.  Logan Hansen's model has fared a smidge better than the Top 25, but still worst than NPI - it accurately predicted 18 of the 24 first round games.

The number of blowouts are about the same this year v. last year - six of the round-of-32 games were decided by 21+ points both this year and last year.  (There were also two 21+ point blowouts among the eight play-in games this year.)

Quote from: unionpalooza on December 06, 2024, 04:24:32 PMTime will tell, but all the haters may owe the NPI an apology.  So far this year, the NPI has accurately predicted the winner of 21 of the 24 play-in and first round playoff games.  That compares favorably to last year, where the old system was only "right" (i.e., the home team only won) in 12 of the 16 first round games.

Also interesting is that the NPI has outperformed the end-of-regular-season D3F Top 25, which accurately predicted only 17 of the first 24 games.  Logan Hansen's model has fared a smidge better than the Top 25, but still worst than NPI - it accurately predicted 18 of the 24 first round games.

The number of blowouts are about the same this year v. last year - six of the round-of-32 games were decided by 21+ points both this year and last year.  (There were also two 21+ point blowouts among the eight play-in games this year.)

Palooza,
     I noticed this as well, you are spot on. The NPI has definitely performed better than the D3 Football and Hansen . I think the D3 Football voters "judgement" and it looks like Hansen(quant assumptions) are definitely favoring some conferences like the WIAC and the PAC , both leagues have no teams left in the Championship. With so many closed conferences like the PAC and the OAC, how do you rank these teams? The LL took it on the chin this year because we stepped out and scheduled some tough OOC games and some of those teams are still playing( Randolph-Macon, Cortland, Johns Hopkins,Endicott and WISCO Lax was no slouch).I love the LL, and I pretty much just care about winning the league , but I do like Hobart's #20 in the NPI versus #40 in Hansen or just getting votes in the D3 Football top 25.
   I'm hoping Cortland can catch some breaks to another title and I really hope Susquehanna can score enough points to beat the Johnies tomorrow so the East looks good.