Quote from: wally_wabash on December 05, 2024, 11:34:09 AM"Some pizza bar" is absolutely no way to talk about Mac & Bob's.  Let's have a little decorum, please. 

Respect!

May I add... The Lantern is not just "some bar".  Lehnen is not just some QB.  And D3football.com is not "just some website!"


We fans of DIII football are so appreciative of all of the work that goes into D3football.com.  We absolutely love the platform you've cultivated and nurtured throughout the years.  I mean, where else can you have this kind of conversation!?  Can't wait to see how this all plays out over the next month!

Quote from: Cardinal773 on December 05, 2024, 11:59:39 AM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 05, 2024, 11:37:13 AM

Quote from: Cardinal773 on December 05, 2024, 11:25:18 AMImmediately afterwards, we had guys like Pat Coleman immediately proclaiming (in that Salem pizza bar) that their early pick for preseason AA QB was Boyes, not Lehnen.  Is not winning the previous year's championship game disqualifying, Pat?

Huh?

Podcast 350,  1:01:30.  Specifically 1:01:46.

I 100% remember what I said and why. Why are you saying it as such a black and white thing, that losing the game was somehow the only factor?

Check the box score. Look at their performance on that day. It's way more than who got the W.

Almost done with lunch.  One hot take before I go.

Lehnen is NOT a good WR.  He has fewer receiving yards than any of the AA candidates recently discussed on this forum.  A pitiful -3 yards!

Discuss.

There's got to be some space between "Luke Lehnen is not the 2024 preseason first team AA quarterback" and "Wow, I guess everyone thinks Luke Lehnen is a garbage football player".  People can say a good a thing about one player or one team and also not concurrently imply something negative about everybody else.  This stuff isn't zero-sum.

Luke Lehnen - great, generational quarterback
Zac Boyes - also great, also a generational talent
Aaron Syverson - also great, also having a singularly awesome season

There's room here to appreciate all of these tremendous student-athletes (and so many more that I didn't mention just now!). The tribalism is kind of toxic. 

Quote from: Cardinal773 on December 05, 2024, 01:03:21 PMAlmost done with lunch.  One hot take before I go.

Lehnen is NOT a good WR.  He has fewer receiving yards than any of the AA candidates recently discussed on this forum.  A pitiful -3 yards!

Discuss.

Not everybody can be Josh Allen.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 05, 2024, 01:00:27 PM

Quote from: Cardinal773 on December 05, 2024, 11:59:39 AM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 05, 2024, 11:37:13 AM

Quote from: Cardinal773 on December 05, 2024, 11:25:18 AMImmediately afterwards, we had guys like Pat Coleman immediately proclaiming (in that Salem pizza bar) that their early pick for preseason AA QB was Boyes, not Lehnen.  Is not winning the previous year's championship game disqualifying, Pat?

Huh?

Podcast 350,  1:01:30.  Specifically 1:01:46.

I 100% remember what I said and why. Why are you saying it as such a black and white thing, that losing the game was somehow the only factor?

Check the box score. Look at their performance on that day. It's way more than who got the W.

I do have to push back on the check the box score argument.  Keyser Helterbrand put up an identical box score against the NCC defense 2 weeks prior. 

Helterbrand 21/32 301 yds 2TD 2INT (1 pick was the end of half first Hail Mary, the other was a 4th and 7 fumbled snap that the UWL WR still could've caught and was tipped by 3 players at least)
Rushing: 26 att 135 yards 3TDs

Boyes 26/34 349 yds 5TDs
Rushing: 16 att 123 yds 0TDs

One could also argue Helterbrand should have lead his team to 49 points scored instead of 42, as they fumbled out of the endzone on the 1 inch line.

That was my point yesterday bringing up how each Lehnen and Boyes played against a common opponent in 2022. The NCC defense was not good by the time they played UWL/Wartburg/Cortland last year. I strongly believe had Lehnen played against that NCC defense in the Stagg he would've put up similar #s

All that data was considered in our All-America team. Only one game was new.

I have a feeling any of those QB's would take a national title over AA honors.

Stats have a lot to do with the role each of those QB's play for their team.

Quote from: wally_wabash on December 05, 2024, 01:26:15 PMThere's got to be some space between "Luke Lehnen is not the 2024 preseason first team AA quarterback" and "Wow, I guess everyone thinks Luke Lehnen is a garbage football player".  People can say a good a thing about one player or one team and also not concurrently imply something negative about everybody else.  This stuff isn't zero-sum.

Luke Lehnen - great, generational quarterback
Zac Boyes - also great, also a generational talent
Aaron Syverson - also great, also having a singularly awesome season

There's room here to appreciate all of these tremendous student-athletes (and so many more that I didn't mention just now!). The tribalism is kind of toxic. 

I'll quibble since we're splitting hairs and getting all feisty with each other. If SJU hadn't just come off of a generational talent in Jackson Eerdmann I think everyone (including those in collegeville) would view Syverson through this lens. He's not just having a single great season, he's had several in a row and just broke Eerdmann's career yds record. Dude has thrown for 12,422 yds, 142 TD's, 310 ypg and 3500yds/season over the last 3 years (he'll break 4k Saturday for this year). Now I need to go get cleaned up since I just vommitted all over myself hyping a Johnnie like this. 

Yeah. I'm pretty sure that most of the arguments on this forum have been extremely complementary of Cortland and St. John's QBs.  And if ever there were a place for a little bit of tribalism, I suppose the CCIW sub-board in Post-Patterns in December would be that place.

can we please get North Central and their QB some more publicity? please!

Quote from: Cardinal773 on December 05, 2024, 11:25:18 AMNo real point to make, really, USee.  Just found it interesting. 

By the way, the Total Plays stat is just pass attempts and rushing attempts. No handoffs or quick kick punts and stuff.

As far as the "Lehnen for AA" campaign is concerned, the NC coaches are doing what they can to protect him and if that means he's not out there putting up crazy numbers all the time, then I guess he doesn't get the crazy totals that will look sexy on an AA resume.

There are two other things going on that I'm quite sure are working against him.  One is definitely NCC fatigue. I recall Kieth, in the post championship game podcast in some pizza bar talking about how refreshing it was to have a new team on top.  Apparently there are people out there that aren't enjoying all this as much as I am.  The other thing is the loss.  The kid has the most accurate, dominating season a QB has ever had and he and his team lose the final by one point.  Immediately afterwards, we had guys like Pat Coleman immediately proclaiming (in that Salem pizza bar) that their early pick for preseason AA QB was Boyes, not Lehnen.  Is not winning the previous year's championship game disqualifying, Pat?

Along with Trinity as an appetizer, Lehnen and company beat (and took a royal pounding) from two championship caliber teams before meeting and losing to Cortland by 1.  So yeah, perhaps he would have kept the luster on his Gagliardi trophy if he would have stepped in at corner.

I'm going on way too much about all this.  In an ideal world I'd like the following to happen:

Syverson and Boyes get AA, Luke outperforms and defeats them both in the playoffs and takes home a title against the next big thing to come out of Alliance.

Being a Wheaton fan, I wish the NCC line would get alot of credit for much of their players stats. Having a son who is a running back, the line matters. And I was watching some games where Luke had all day in the pocket because of the wealth of riches on the NCC line, and if he wanted, he had some massive holes to run 20 yards without getting touched. Maybe a quarterback from a team like NPU should get more credit because he has to make split second decisions. Just my two cents.

Quote from: CuriousCCIWfan on December 06, 2024, 03:00:49 PMBeing a Wheaton fan, I wish the NCC line would get alot of credit for much of their players stats. Having a son who is a running back, the line matters. And I was watching some games where Luke had all day in the pocket because of the wealth of riches on the NCC line, and if he wanted, he had some massive holes to run 20 yards without getting touched. Maybe a quarterback from a team like NPU should get more credit because he has to make split second decisions. Just my two cents.

North Central has been in the last four championships precisely because they became the premiere outfit in the division on the lines, especially the offensive line. 

Final

John Hopkins 14. DePauw 9

DePauw with about 28 seconds left got to the John Hopkins 1 yd line and couldn't get it in.

Springfield 40 Cortland 28 Final

No rematch for NCC but I'm assuming get to stay home.
Springfield rushed for 351 yards on 71 attempts.