Quote from: dacac on December 05, 2024, 11:06:21 PMEasy win for the camels

Lmfao this is bait

Congrats to Conn, a well deserved win in a game that could have gone either way. I thought they started out on top, controlling the ball well and asserting their style on the game. Lost the reigns a bit toward the end of the first half and struggled to regain it. Relied on a few moments of brilliance that W&L just did not have on the night -- great free kick from Horvath-Diano, who always puts in a dangerous ball with that left foot -- and a few great saves from Silvester who was absolutely lights out all night. Some of the best saves i've seen at this level. Now for the rematch. Hoping Conn can sustain possession a bit more in a game that Amherst will try to turn into a circus. Always an interesting game when two teams with polar opposite identities go up against each other. Go Camels.

Interesting to note. Conn and Amherst played in the first round of the NESCAC playoffs (Conn 1-1, won in pks). Now they will be playing each other on a much bigger stage. That goes to show just how dominate these NESCAC teams are.

The two teams also will have a rematch of the 2021 national finals (ironically, also 1-1 with Conn winning in pks). In my opinion this is the country's most underrated rivalry, with most people talking about the rivalries of Amherst, tufts, and middlebury in the NESCAC

For the seniors playing in the matchup it will be the 9th time playing each other.

Current record for Conn vs Amherst

3 wins( counting pks as wins)
3 losses
2 ties

Amherst has beat Conn on their run to win 2 nescac championship

And Conn has beat Amherst in there run to win a national championship and a nescac championship.

Feels like the ultimate tie breaker

If the Conn keeper was replaced by someone slightly worse, that game could have easily finished 3-0 to W&L.

Quote from: eaglesoccerdad on December 05, 2024, 06:16:44 PM

Quote from: stlawus on December 05, 2024, 06:10:20 PMThis game is really horrid quality.

definitely not the beautiful game

That is not the Midd game —it was turned into a wrestling match. Midd v Conn was vastly different.

Quote from: Garden12 on December 06, 2024, 02:37:56 AMIf the Conn keeper was replaced by someone slightly worse, that game could have easily finished 3-0 to W&L.

"And if a frog had wings he wouldn't bust his ass hopping."

-Nathan Arizona

Since we talked a lot about the ref in the first game and the VAR calls, I'm going to balance that out a bit. The ref and his assistants in the second game? Outstanding.

The center was consistent, he let shoulder to shoulder challenges and 50/50s go evenly for both teams all night. He gave cards on the appropriate plays. I can't really think of a missed call and I don't think he put a foot wrong the whole game. I can't even really remember too many 50/50 type out of bounds calls that were contested by the teams.

The crew's reward is that we don't really think about it or mention them, which is really what it should be. However, after the first game, I think they deserve some recognition for calling, as far as I could tell on the TV, pretty much a perfect game.

Kudos to the crew, especially the center ref. He did get the easier of the two games, but that doesn't always translate to a better job. Last night that was a very well officiated game.

We all create, maintain, and modify narratives to make and keep ourselves and our symbols (in this case our schools or children's schools) relevant.  Everyone needs to be "seen," and if you're not invested in being seen you're either the most fake-healthy person on the planet or you've just plain given up.

If being relevant means leaning into some huge win that happened 30 years ago along with the secret society handshake, then so be it.

If being relevant means referencing my own kid yet again, just in case anyone missed it the prior dozen times, then so be it.

If leaning into grievance works, then go for it.

In response to a question about one title versus 3 F4 appearances in 4 years, our W&L friend endorsed the title.  And yes, absolutely, you're playing to try and win a title...just like 400 other schools (although in reality probably only 50-60 actually think that could happen).

However, if the question is changed slightly to what is more impressive, a title or 3 F4s in 4 years (or 4 in 5), then I'm choosing the latter.  The number of schools that have accomplished the latter, at least over the past 20 years, is tiny.  Is it fair that I unconsciously credit W&L more than Amherst on this?  Probably...but I also identify more with W&L's story because, rightly or wrongly, I think that could have been/should have been MY team.  And it's not like W&L has been disrespected as a program, but no one, including their most fervent fans (other than the nostradamus Another Mom), ever dreamed W&L would achieve 3 F4s in 4 years.  In fact, I think most would have more likely predicted a single appearance or a single national title. W&L is the team I envy and that (metaphorically) keeps me up at night.  A few plays here and there...and that could have been me!  Any unfairness to Amherst, aside from the typical critiques of the Amherst machine, likely is a result of us expecting Amherst to be here every year or at least every other year.  We are just winding down from having that expectation every year with Messiah and Tufts.  Think about that and what level of achievement that is...and, again, achievement with or without any titles...when a program is so strong most of us would predict Amherst to get here again next year...and the one after that. 

This is not imo anything close to a "Buffalo Bills" story (and I'm not entirely convinced that the Buffalo Bills story is the "Buffalo Bills story").  There was no choking, by W&L or Midd, or Amherst in past years.  It is easy to fall into the "it's a pattern" trap when actually individual games can turn on one or two plays or you advance or don't in PKs or you catch a bad break and concede an OT goal.  If you looked inside each Tufts title, you could underscore multiple plays that could have gone either way or involved some good fortune.  At the start of each Tufts season, other than maybe one, a title would have seemed unlikely.  Even this year there were discussions about one team versus the field.  Mary Wash was about as good a candidate for take the team versus the field, and look what happened.  This year's best team is sitting at home.

Checking in from Vegas here.  Managed to land and get to the stadium in plenty of time to catch both games.

The field - definitely not the best.  I did not think it was awful, but it was not conducive to great passing.  A bit choppy and uneven.

I missed EnmoreKitten's well executed goal.  You see, I had read the amazing review of the bathrooms from EnmoreCat and decided I need to take a personal tour myself and while I was perusing the double toilet stall men's room, Amherst took the lead.  Midd equalized a few minutes later on a really well taken side volley.

I will have difficult time putting into words the emotions surrounding the penalty.  I think most officials do not want to be part of (or THE) story and in this case, the referee failed.  I also believe that context is key.  A 1-1 game in the second half of the national semifinal, imo, should not be decided by a questionable VAR reviewed penalty decision.  I know people will say "a foul is a foul", but we all know that the standard for a foul in the box is WAY different than one for a foul in midfield and in this case, unless the Amherst player loses a leg, or an obvious handball (think Martin Odegaard, which wasn't actually called a penalty in that Liverpool-Arsenal game).  But to have a game essentially decided on an iffy call like that is awfully disappointing. 

Hats off to Nuhu who executed it, but the end result has left a poor feeling.  I feel Midd and Amherst should have allowed their play on the field for the last 25 min or so (and maybe OT) be the deciding factor in that contest.  Not a ref spending 5 minutes at a small video monitor.  It wasn't called on the field.  The ref had good proximity to the play.  Just doesn't sit well with this D3 athletics individual.

Game two.  W&L was awesome.  Struggled a bit early, but after Rye Jaran picked up a knock mid first half and had to come off, the Generals really controlled the midfield.  Really strong game plan and execution by the Generals players and staff.

I do feel the ref allowed some players looking for contact to secure some fouls and free kicks, but beyond that, it did not play a significant role in the outcome.  Horvath-Diano's free kick and Silverster's incredible game were the difference.  I feel for the W&L players, coaches, parents, and families b/c I am sure they look at that game and feel they deserved a different result.

I also spent all night looking for a tall guy saying "mate" getting worked over by the UNLV campus police with a taser, but failed in my mission to provide video evidence for the group of readers here.

MunnyTim, I think I was being protected by the Amherst Faithful all adopting Australian accents to conceal me from the UNLV authorities.  I will say that I am confident a fair few of the Midd supporters may have been able to pick me out in a line up. 

I appreciate everyone's take on the W&L Conn game, and agree with most of the posters. I will say the Conn goal was gorgeous, and at least from my angle, unsaveable. The statistics tell the tale of the rest of the game -- W&L dominated on shots, corners, possession.  Conn on number of fouls, and saves.

I don't know why Paul Newman thinks I predicted this -- I guess I didn't post my thoughts, but I was extremely doubtful they would even make the tournament for most of the season! However, over the season they have really come into their own, and just got better and better. Coach Shabazz is one to watch -- he is really, really talented, and the boys love him (so do the parents!)

While it wasn't the Cinderella story I was hoping for, the boys played well, and with heart, and in the end that's all you can ask of a team.

AM...maybe not a prediction but early on after the slow start and after W&L won a game or two against iirc some fairly mundane competition you posted that the team was starting to give you the same vibe as last year's team. And at the time, that seemed like a pretty wild stretch...and then you're in Vegas after emerging through a gauntlet to get there.

Congrats to your son on a fabulous W&L career.

Quote from: PaulNewman on December 06, 2024, 09:20:37 AMIn response to a question about one title versus 3 F4 appearances in 4 years, our W&L friend endorsed the title.  And yes, absolutely, you're playing to try and win a title...just like 400 other schools (although in reality probably only 50-60 actually think that could happen).

However, if the question is changed slightly to what is more impressive, a title or 3 F4s in 4 years (or 4 in 5), then I'm choosing the latter.  The number of schools that have accomplished the latter, at least over the past 20 years, is tiny.  Is it fair that I unconsciously credit W&L more than Amherst on this?  Probably...but I also identify more with W&L's story because, rightly or wrongly, I think that could have been/should have been MY team.  And it's not like W&L has been disrespected as a program, but no one, including their most fervent fans (other than the nostradamus Another Mom), ever dreamed W&L would achieve 3 F4s in 4 years.  In fact, I think most would have more likely predicted a single appearance or a single national title. W&L is the team I envy and that (metaphorically) keeps me up at night.  A few plays here and there...and that could have been me!  Any unfairness to Amherst, aside from the typical critiques of the Amherst machine, likely is a result of us expecting Amherst to be here every year or at least every other year.  We are just winding down from having that expectation every year with Messiah and Tufts.  Think about that and what level of achievement that is...and, again, achievement with or without any titles...when a program is so strong most of us would predict Amherst to get here again next year...and the one after that. 

So if I'm reading this right, the question is would you rather be W&L or St. Olaf, and which is more impressive? I have 2 different answers. I'd rather be St. Olaf as I said. The goal is a national title. While all the players should be rightly proud of their seasons, they will look back on the Final Four and Championship games they lost as regrets. The season? Sure, super proud. The last game will forever be a regret though. How much less proud are you of an Elite 8 than a Final Four? I suspect not much. But an Elite Eight vs a Conference Title? I think most teams will take the Conference Title. Winning the title is the memory you strive for.

Now, what is more impressive? A single great run resulting in a title or a consistent run of Final Fours? I think the consistency is more impressive. Lets face it, there is a bit of luck in every tournament run. Last night, if Conn's goalkeeper gets his hand 1/100th or maybe even less of a second later to that ball, it goes off the crossbar and in, physics. If the free kick is spotted one yard deeper to the end line, the angle he scored from is 100x harder. That's the randomness, and that doesn't even count winning in PKs, which every team in the Final Four did at least once to get there. PKs are almost random in outcomes. A team like Hopkins can score all of them in one game and almost none the next. Same with W&L last year knocking out CC and then completely flubbing against Amherst.

But the consistency to get to the Final Four over a period of 4 or 6 or 8 years implies a program level of talent, from the coach as a tactician and recruiter, to multiple classes of players, to resources and commitment from the school to the team. A single great class can make a run, but a great program does it over and over. Even if the vagaries are against it in the final step or two, appearing year after year that deep. overcoming those vagaries in the earlier rounds and even throughout the season, depth to cover injuries that can happen any given year, player leadership to be passed down year after year... these are just things that a team on a single run doesn't deal with and programs on a multi-year run do.

So I'm more impressed by Amherst and W&L than I am by St. Olaf, but I'd still rather have the title.

Quote from: Another Mom on December 06, 2024, 10:27:18 AMI appreciate everyone's take on the W&L Conn game, and agree with most of the posters. I will say the Conn goal was gorgeous, and at least from my angle, unsaveable. The statistics tell the tale of the rest of the game -- W&L dominated on shots, corners, possession.  Conn on number of fouls, and saves.

I don't know why Paul Newman thinks I predicted this -- I guess I didn't post my thoughts, but I was extremely doubtful they would even make the tournament for most of the season! However, over the season they have really come into their own, and just got better and better. Coach Shabazz is one to watch -- he is really, really talented, and the boys love him (so do the parents!)

While it wasn't the Cinderella story I was hoping for, the boys played well, and with heart, and in the end that's all you can ask of a team.

It didn't seem possible sitting at Sewanee and Covenant that this team would look so good by the end of the season. We certainly discussed some doubts. Really a dream progression for the boys and it shows so much character how they grew as a team and with the coach. Congratulations to your son, all the seniors who have been so instrumental over the years, and the rest of the team. A high bar has been set.

As an alum I've loved being able to share these seasons with my sons, get to a few games, and watch these young men play. For me, athletics has always been a big part of my connection to W&L, and I appreciate all of the student athletes who help keep that connection alive.