Listened to the podcast and watched a highlight reel which did not show the holding call. From what I heard on the podcast, it sounded like this was the first holding call for the entire game. However, it sounded like it was pretty egregious and nobody that has watched the video is saying it was not a penalty. What exacerbated the whole situation is the officials not maintaining decorum and control of the game. Still a heartbreak way to end a season and/or your college career for all the seniors on the team.

So, when the final D3 Football Top 25 rankings come out, should BU be ahead of St. John's because they went one week further in the playoffs, or should Bethel be behind the Johnnies because of the in season head to head contest results? Both teams lost to Susquehanna in back to back weeks by similar margins at the end of the games, so that seems pretty even in my mind, putting them lower than the River Hawks, whatever the final results end up being.

Our voters are generally good at remembering what happened during the regular season and have never really equated "final eight" with "top eight."

In a three-minute segment of the podcast which I ended up cutting for time had discussion of this very topic and I threw out there, St. John's at No. 6, Bethel at No. 8, depending on what Susquehanna goes on to do the rest of the season.

The key there might be resultS. Tough to throw out one H2H, much less two, especially given similar results vs. SU.

So in this case, the regular season and conference championship game do matter. Usually hear it the other way.

Quote from: OzJohnnie on December 16, 2024, 01:34:22 AM@sfury; I asked Grok "In the history of American football--pro, all divisions of college and high school--how many times has a pass on the last play of the game involved a call for offensive holding?"

And it replied:

QuoteBased on the available data, here is the information I can provide:

Professional Football (NFL):
There is one well-documented instance where a pass on the last play of the game involved a call for offensive holding:
2016 NFL - Baltimore Ravens vs. Cincinnati Bengals:
Date: November 27, 2016
Details: On the last play, which was intended to be a punt, the Ravens committed multiple offensive holding penalties to run out the clock, ensuring their victory.

College and High School Football:
I am not aware of any specific, well-documented cases from college or high school football where a pass on the last play resulted in an offensive holding penalty. These levels of play do not typically have the same level of detailed record-keeping as the NFL, and such specific instances would be hard to track without extensive research into game logs or media reports from particular games.

Therefore, from the information available, there's only one confirmed example from the NFL where a pass play (or in this case, an attempt to punt) on the last play of the game resulted in an offensive holding call. This does not mean it hasn't happened in college or high school football; it's just that no widely recognized or reported instances are known.

(Sports statisticians are going to be a challenged breed, it seems)

Just to be a dill hole, I'll point out that the holding was the second to last play of the game. 

Jung enters the portal. Figure big bucks are coming his way at a bigger school.

Adding salt to the wound for Bethel, Matt Jung enters the transfer portal.

I could see him filling his older brother's position at NDSU.

One thing I have been surprised by is that SJU has not gotten anybody poached(knock on wood).

Would SJU be open to getting a QB transfer that could step in and play right away? I believe that Zander Dittberner has two seasons left and IMO has been a consummate example of a team player and deserves a chance to lead the offense next season. That being said the SJU offense, for the past 3-6 seasons, has been predicated on having a quarterback that can distribute the ball through the passing game. Once again it seems like SJU loses a lot of talent at a number of positions.   

Quote from: sfury on December 17, 2024, 02:59:25 PMJung enters the portal. Figure big bucks are coming his way at a bigger school.

Or even more NLI money at Bethel.

Dang.  Guess that's to be expected with a guy who is clearly as out of place in D3 as him.  I see he has a couple of smaller D1 offers already, according to his twitter.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 17, 2024, 03:55:11 PMOr even more NLI money at Bethel.

Did you forget to use your sarcasm font?

Quote from: DuffMan on December 17, 2024, 04:21:14 PM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 17, 2024, 03:55:11 PMOr even more NLI money at Bethel.

Did you forget to use your sarcasm font?

Someone close to the situation suggested that last week -- not tongue-in-cheek either, as far as I could tell.

Interesting.  I assumed NLI dollars would be sparse at the majority of D3 schools.  I would be moderately surprised if Bethel could provide anything substantial in the way of NLI opportunities.

Quote from: sfury on December 17, 2024, 02:59:25 PMJung enters the portal. Figure big bucks are coming his way at a bigger school.

****!!!!!!!

Good for him, but man this stinks. I continue to absolutely detest the portal...detest it.