Quote from: Etchglow on February 24, 2025, 02:22:53 PMFound this interesting post over on the D2 boards:

Quote from: MooseLodgeThis was discussed a few months ago. I am close to the UMHB situation. They are not interested in the LSC because they would not have the budget to compete. The Great American Conference is attractive to them because that conference has a much lower average budget than the LSC. There is zero chance they will consider FCS - there's nowhere to come up with another $13-15 million per year to swing it.

Their budget current is $7 million, but tuition-paying athletes are contributing heavily to this. Most of those would go away in an athletic scholarship model, and the university would instead be paying out. When that is all netted out, they need to find $3-4 million a year to be competitive in the GAC, and $5-7 million to be competitive in the LSC.

I would take that post with a grain of salt.  That dude has some unhinged posts about a lot of things.

The LSC is not in great shape ATM but he sure spends a lot of time thumbing his nose at the GAC and especially D3 football.

He thinks we're all going broke and we will be insolvent in the near future.  Discussing the Baptist Four in particular. 

And don't even get him started on how inferior D3 academics is to anyone in D2.....namely the LSC.

Quote from: Mavchamp on February 24, 2025, 04:56:30 PM

Quote from: Etchglow on February 24, 2025, 02:22:53 PMFound this interesting post over on the D2 boards:

Quote from: MooseLodgeThis was discussed a few months ago. I am close to the UMHB situation. They are not interested in the LSC because they would not have the budget to compete. The Great American Conference is attractive to them because that conference has a much lower average budget than the LSC. There is zero chance they will consider FCS - there's nowhere to come up with another $13-15 million per year to swing it.

Their budget current is $7 million, but tuition-paying athletes are contributing heavily to this. Most of those would go away in an athletic scholarship model, and the university would instead be paying out. When that is all netted out, they need to find $3-4 million a year to be competitive in the GAC, and $5-7 million to be competitive in the LSC.

I would take that post with a grain of salt.  That dude has some unhinged posts about a lot of things.

The LSC is not in great shape ATM but he sure spends a lot of time thumbing his nose at the GAC and especially D3 football.

He thinks we're all going broke and we will be insolvent in the near future.  Discussing the Baptist Four in particular. 

And don't even get him started on how inferior D3 academics is to anyone in D2.....namely the LSC.

I just thought it was interesting from someone who is supposedly "close" to the situation lol.  I'm indifferent at this point as to what happens.  Just wish they'd crap or get off the pot...

Quote from: Etchglow on February 24, 2025, 06:16:38 PMI just thought it was interesting from someone who is supposedly "close" to the situation lol.  I'm indifferent at this point as to what happens.  Just wish they'd crap or get off the pot...

THIS THIS THIS

I somewhat understand the desire to stick around another year to not waste the AQ....but at what cost in the long run?

The ASC is toast.  Another year of round robin is doing nothing to strengthen any of us.

Let the dominoes fall where they may. 

I would be THRILLED at any announcement at this point.  NAIA, D2, SCAC, SAA, C2C....whatever.  Just something. 

Total silence for a year is completely unacceptable.

Shame on the ASC and shame on the Baptist Four for not being more public with their negotiations.

The lack of transparency by all involved is stark.

Amen!

Pardon my not knowing all the ins and outs of this but what would be wrong with UMHB going independent in football?  I guess it could be finding games at the end of the season as most schools are playing conference games then.  What are some other reasons?

Quote from: justafan12 on February 25, 2025, 12:42:29 PMPardon my not knowing all the ins and outs of this but what would be wrong with UMHB going independent in football?  I guess it could be finding games at the end of the season as most schools are playing conference games then.  What are some other reasons?

No AQ, and scheduling, which is hard enough currently, would be almost impossible for all sports.

On a basketball note, I saw UMHB is letting go of Carroll at the end of the season.

Quote from: UMHB03 on February 25, 2025, 01:04:18 PM

Quote from: justafan12 on February 25, 2025, 12:42:29 PMPardon my not knowing all the ins and outs of this but what would be wrong with UMHB going independent in football?  I guess it could be finding games at the end of the season as most schools are playing conference games then.  What are some other reasons?

No AQ, and scheduling, which is hard enough currently, would be almost impossible for all sports.

Would another conference take UMHB without football?  Football would be an independent.  Just wondering.

Most (maybe all? dunno) conferences say "if we offer a sport you sponsor, you must participate as a member of the conference."  Exceptions are schools that have sports split between D3 and D1 (e.g. ice hockey).

Quote from: Crubacker on February 25, 2025, 01:06:41 PMOn a basketball note, I saw UMHB is letting go of Carroll at the end of the season.

There's something not right about this.  Riley Zayes (True to the Cru) promises an in-depth look at the situation once UMHB is done for the season and the departure is formally announced.

Quote from: justafan12 on February 25, 2025, 01:22:05 PM

Quote from: UMHB03 on February 25, 2025, 01:04:18 PM

Quote from: justafan12 on February 25, 2025, 12:42:29 PMPardon my not knowing all the ins and outs of this but what would be wrong with UMHB going independent in football?  I guess it could be finding games at the end of the season as most schools are playing conference games then.  What are some other reasons?

No AQ, and scheduling, which is hard enough currently, would be almost impossible for all sports.

Would another conference take UMHB without football?  Football would be an independent.  Just wondering.

As far as another conference accepting UMHB for non-football sports, who knows? We are not as dominant in other sports as we are in football, so I guess it would be possible IF the motivation for the non-Baptist schools avoiding UMHB is fear of competition rather than philosophical/political intolerance. However, it's a moot point because football independence couldn't work, as UMHB has a hard time finding four D3 non-conference opponents, much less a filling a full, 10 game schedule.

The funny thing about UMHB being concerned about having a smaller budget than the other Lone Star Conference schools is I get the impression that most of those schools administrations barely tolerate athletics while UMHB's administration has been rather supportive. I feel like that could go a long way in closing the financial gap as those schools struggle to keep good coaches.

https://www.texasfootball.com/article/2025/02/20/reviving-the-lsc-a-roadmap-to-reclaim-dii-football-dominance?ref=article_preview_title

Interesting article.  Talks about how the LSC could gain some stability and how to realign thanks to the the collapse of the ASC.

He basically suggests kicking the two Pacific Northwest schools out of the conference.  He also says to kick out the two Oklahoma schools (both are non football).

Then says to add UMHB, HSU, and ETBU.

Absolutely no clue why he would leave HPU out unless he knows something we don't.  But it seems like HPU would be included if he included ETBU in the discussion.

It would give them 11 football schools by adding the ASC schools.  12 if he would add HPU.

19 members for all sports (20 if you include HPU)

He suggests East/West for non football

East: 
Dallas Baptist (Men only),
ETBU
UT Tyler
UMHB
St Mary's
St Edwards
A&M International
A&M Kingsville
TWU (women only)
UT Dallas

West
Angelo State
East New Mexico
Hardin Simmons
Lubbock Christian
Midwestern State
Sul Ross
UTPB
West Texas
Western New Mexico
HPU ?

IMHO......ETBU has absolutely NO BUSINESS playing in D2 against schools that are 4-6 times their size.  A school of barely 2,000 enrolled has no business playing in a conference that has schools with enrollments like this:

TWU (15,000+)
San Angelo (10,000+)
UT Tyler (9000+)
WT A&M (9,000+)
A&M International (8,000+)
A&M Kingsville (6,000+)
UT Permian (5000+)

ETBU would be the third smallest school in the LSC.....only bigger than Lubbock Christian and MAYBE slightly ahead of Sul Ross State.

It would likely be the death knell of competitiveness in most ETBU sports.  Are we really going to sacrifice the entire athletic program for softball and baseball?

Most of those much larger schools have exponentially deeper pockets with their endowments to spend.  They have much larger alum bases to rainse money through foundations and booster clubs.  Most schools in the LSC are state funded...... instead of private like ETBU.  Not to mention most of LSC schools are located in much larger metro areas giving them  significant recruiting advantages.  11 of the schools are located in cities over 100,000.  12 of them are in cities of 90,000 or more.

Compare that to Marshall 25,000.  Belton is about 25,000 too. Alpine?  Jeeez.

IF....ETBU were to make the move to D2..... the Great American confernce would make a LOT more sense.  Not only is most of the GAC geogrphically a lot closer to ETBU with a bulk of the colleges in Arkansas.... but ALSO.....most of them are located in towns about the same size as Marshall.

Most of the GAC schools have much smaller sports budgets than the Lone Star Conference.  ETBU would STILL be at a disadvantage in the GAC...but the disadvantes would be lesser than in the Lone Star.

It's probably in the best interest of ETBU (and HPU...even though they weren't mentioned in the article...they are in the same boat as ETBU) that they somehow find a way to remain D3 or they need to look at moving to the Sooner Conference in the NAIA until another chance to return to D3 arises.

By somehow staying in D3 and landing in the SCAC or the SAA or any other conference.... or ending up in the Sooner Conf (NAIA) they would be surrounded by schools of similar size in similar sized towns...... instead of facing behemoths week after week getting their brains bashed in.

JMHO

Dallas was an independent for about 10 years.  Difficult, but doable.  Didn't have football though which would be a horse of a different color.

2001-2011, to be exact.  It was a different world in D3 back in the early 2000s - pool Bs for independents and conferences with fewer than seven schools in a sport. 

The C2C schools are effectively independents granted a pool A thanks to their conference championships, but with all of them located on the east coast (except UC Santa Cruz, and Mount Mary, a women's college departing the NCAA for the NAIA next season) they can schedule each other in the regular season as well any of the plethora of D3s in the region.