Quote from: TLU05SA on March 18, 2025, 09:54:18 AM

Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 18, 2025, 09:46:57 AMReports (unconfirmed by either the ASC or the schools, but mentioned by DCTF and a well-known blogger in his space, d3vbwest, as well as independently to me by people with contacts whom I trust) are that the two schools were offered in excess of a million dollars each to join the ASC.  The source of the funds is unknown.

Well, I think the source of the funds can be reliably implied. I have no doubt that the bulk of the funds (if not all) are coming from UMHB and HSU (or backers of those programs).

I cannot recall another incident where a school moved DIII conferences because the conference (or its schools) was paying them to move conferences. Just seems gross and against the ethos of DIII to me. I fully expect that in DI but not DIII.

If true (financial benefits/payments), it's not happening in a vacuum. It's just as gross for a small number of schools to fight among themselves in a region with limited D3 members, especially limited football members.

Right or wrong....even if I don't agree with it.....I can understand why some wanted to get away from HSU and UMHB.

IMHO.....the SCAC's refusal to even consider HPU and ETBU to solidify their numbers played a crucial role in what went down.

It's not like HPU or ETBU are football powerhouses.  Not even close.  Nor in basketball.  Nor in soccer. 

Had the SCAC extended an invitation to HPU and ETBU..... they would have likely been sitting at 9 football schools.  An AQ would be incoming and there would be no sight of either of the purple schools.

HSU and UMHB would have been forced to go elsewhere.

Lumping all the Baptist schools together might have been a mistake.

I think there are mission and vision issues that are being discussed.

The SCAC regularly plays games on Sunday. The ASC infrequently, for one.

My next observation of McM will be concerning the administrative philosophy of McM's new President, Lynne Murray in numerous areas.

There may be more to this than is immediately seen.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 18, 2025, 05:58:06 PMI think there are mission and vision issues that are being discussed.

The SCAC regularly plays games on Sunday. The ASC infrequently, for one.

My next observation of McM will be concerning the administrative philosophy of McM's new President, Lynne Murray in numerous areas.

There may be more to this than is immediately seen.

One thing I noticed about yesterday's announcement was that the ASC used the term "faith-based"*, which is certainly understandable given the conference's go-forward membership.  That said, I can't remember the conference ever using that designation, which given the number of state schools formerly associated with the conference again would be understandable.  See the current "About the ASC" page** which doesn't mention faith.  That would tie into the rarity of Sunday events in the ASC as compared to other conferences that don't have a significant religious focus - even if there was no stated focus, the conference likely scheduled Sundays off to respect the religious beliefs of many key stakeholders.

At the same time, any school coming to the SCAC had to be aware of its scheduling policy which has remained constant for decades at least.  While many of us have speculated that the ASC core 4 had applied for SCAC membership, this might be one reason that they did not. 

* - the exact quote:  "This agreement underscores the commitment of all member institutions to providing a faith-based collegiate environment that values a challenging academic and spiritual experience enriched by robust athletic competition, offering exceptional opportunities for student-athletes to grow, compete, and excel."

** - if the page has been updated since I posted this (it's already a year out of date, at least) you can find a snapshot of the former page, courtesy the Internet Archive, here.  The link to this page on the ASC site is Inside the ASC > History.

Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 19, 2025, 07:24:13 AMOne thing I noticed about yesterday's announcement was that the ASC used the term "faith-based"*, which is certainly understandable given the conference's go-forward membership. 

That is spin. This is about money, not faith.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 18, 2025, 05:58:06 PMI think there are mission and vision issues that are being discussed.

The SCAC regularly plays games on Sunday. The ASC infrequently, for one.

My next observation of McM will be concerning the administrative philosophy of McM's new President, Lynne Murray in numerous areas.

There may be more to this than is immediately seen.

Interesting observation on the Sunday games. Just a small sample check shows that McMurray softball has 6 Sunday games scheduled this year (3 double header dates). Schreiner has 4 this year (on 3 dates) and 8 last year (5 dates). UMHB had 1 Sunday game date the past two years (2 games each) in out-of-state tournaments. HSU plays one away doubleheader as well. The defending national champs ETBU has 1 Sunday out-of-state Sunday doubleheader this year and had 2 dates last year (not counting the NCAA playoffs).

It would not surprise me for LeTU to remain in the ASC for similar faith-based reasons.

Most people point to the issues of the Purple schools dominating in football as the impetus to the mass exodus from the ASC.  Not saying I agree with it... but I DO understand it.

It was stated by some that the exodus was more socio-political than anything. Which makes me wonder what issues they were so concerned about.  Worthy of dismantling a conference?

IMHO both the ASC and the SCAC could both coexist as football conferences if they would stop trying to one-up each other.

Purple schools aside..... I stand by the idea that if the SCAC had taken HPU and ETBU into the fold.... The SCAC would be in perfect shape and the Purple schools would be in the rearview mirror for those looking to escape. 

Like others have predicted....I don't think 6 will be the ASC's final number.  I'm guessing 7. Maybe 8. And hopefully the SCAC can get their six too.

Quote from: TLU05SA on March 19, 2025, 09:40:55 AM

Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 19, 2025, 07:24:13 AMOne thing I noticed about yesterday's announcement was that the ASC used the term "faith-based"*, which is certainly understandable given the conference's go-forward membership. 

That is spin. This is about money, not faith.

It's about money, especially for the returnees, but for the schools at the heart of the conference, make no mistake that faith is a big part of their game plan.  The conference doesn't make that change if it isn't. 

Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 19, 2025, 02:21:56 PM

Quote from: TLU05SA on March 19, 2025, 09:40:55 AM

Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 19, 2025, 07:24:13 AMOne thing I noticed about yesterday's announcement was that the ASC used the term "faith-based"*, which is certainly understandable given the conference's go-forward membership. 

That is spin. This is about money, not faith.

It's about money, especially for the returnees, but for the schools at the heart of the conference, make no mistake that faith is a big part of their game plan.  The conference doesn't make that change if it isn't. 

I respectfully disagree. This is about money, even for the heart of the conference. UMHB and HSU (and probably ETBU) have determined it is cheaper to pay Schreiner and McMurry than the costs and expenses to operate an athletic scholarship program in DII, DI or NAIA.

It will be interesting to see how this continues to play out.

Quote from: TLU05SA on March 19, 2025, 03:04:41 PM

Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 19, 2025, 02:21:56 PM

Quote from: TLU05SA on March 19, 2025, 09:40:55 AM

Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 19, 2025, 07:24:13 AMOne thing I noticed about yesterday's announcement was that the ASC used the term "faith-based"*, which is certainly understandable given the conference's go-forward membership. 

That is spin. This is about money, not faith.

It's about money, especially for the returnees, but for the schools at the heart of the conference, make no mistake that faith is a big part of their game plan.  The conference doesn't make that change if it isn't. 

I respectfully disagree. This is about money, even for the heart of the conference. UMHB and HSU (and probably ETBU) have determined it is cheaper to pay Schreiner and McMurry than the costs and expenses to operate an athletic scholarship program in DII, DI or NAIA.

It will be interesting to see how this continues to play out.

It's fine to disagree... but how many other options were available?  Especially for HPU and ETBU.

UMHB and HSU may not have WANTED to move up to D2.... But they had the resources. They are more D2 ready.

HPU and ETBU are nowhere near ready for D2. Where were they going to go?

Are you proposing they bankrupt themselves trying to play in conferences that played on the coasts?  Or a conference that stretches from Atlantic to Pacific? 

They were thrown into an impossible situation.

I get not liking it.... But what other options were available?

Quote from: TLU05SA on March 19, 2025, 03:04:41 PM

Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 19, 2025, 02:21:56 PM

Quote from: TLU05SA on March 19, 2025, 09:40:55 AM

Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 19, 2025, 07:24:13 AMOne thing I noticed about yesterday's announcement was that the ASC used the term "faith-based"*, which is certainly understandable given the conference's go-forward membership. 

That is spin. This is about money, not faith.

It's about money, especially for the returnees, but for the schools at the heart of the conference, make no mistake that faith is a big part of their game plan.  The conference doesn't make that change if it isn't. 

I respectfully disagree. This is about money, even for the heart of the conference. UMHB and HSU (and probably ETBU) have determined it is cheaper to pay Schreiner and McMurry than the costs and expenses to operate an athletic scholarship program in DII, DI or NAIA.

It will be interesting to see how this continues to play out.

Especially over a 10yr basis. If it was low 7 figures, what is that $2MM per school? So 4MM total? My understanding is that it's not an annual, it's a total in the low 7 figures. That's 400K a year, 100K per school. It costs between 50K and 150K to fly a football team somewhere. Cutting out one flight game a year, for each of the Baptist 4, and that covers it. And that's just for football. Being an independent in D3 in all other sports was going to cost piles. So was going to the C2C. And going D2 was going to cost more than $100K per school per year.

Really this is a bargain. I'm honestly shocked it's a 10yr contract for that little. I was expecting 5 years max. The two joining schools didn't negotiate for enough. Maybe they decided a little was better than nothing, but the way the Baptist 4 were over a barrel, that's a very favorable number for them.

... maybe this was a win-win for mutliple reasons for the 6 schools involved.

The SCAC's losing TU was the SCAC losing its panache.

Wonder what the odds of Southwestern being swayed to stay in the SCAC are?

Maybe Louisiana College could return to D3?  Not sure they would even be interested.

I honestly hope the ASC and the SCAC can both get their six (or more) each and carry on with business.  Maybe they will leave each other alone for a while.

If the six aren't secured....who's the next to jump ship?

Hendrix back to the SAA?  Austin back to the SAA?

Lyon to the ASC?  Centenary to the ASC?  TLU to the ASC?

Maybe the deal included concessions beyond the financial, like in-conference transfer restrictions and/or roster limits. I don't know if those are even a thing these days, but if they were included, that might impact some of the core competitive challenges in the ASC.  It can't be fun to develop a player only to have them transfer to your biggest rival.