This is unpopular, but in the NPI era, there's zero reason to play teams outside D3. It counts for nothing other than your own record. Has no bearing on making the playoffs, getting a better playoff seed, etc. While it's good to get in-game reps and play a full schedule, the question becomes how much you want to risk injury to key players in a game that doesn't matter.

An FCS program would be a great test, no doubt. But what's the point of playing an FCS team right before you play what will potentially be your only D3 non-conference game 7 days later?

Quote from: Riley Zayas on April 09, 2025, 02:30:20 PMThis is unpopular, but in the NPI era, there's zero reason to play teams outside D3. It counts for nothing other than your own record. Has no bearing on making the playoffs, getting a better playoff seed, etc. While it's good to get in-game reps and play a full schedule, the question becomes how much you want to risk injury to key players in a game that doesn't matter.

An FCS program would be a great test, no doubt. But what's the point of playing an FCS team right before you play what will potentially be your only D3 non-conference game 7 days later?

Sure, I would definitely prefer D3 opponents, but since we seem to be unable to find anyone willing to step up to the challenge outside of Whitewater, I figure an FCS opponent would be a lot more fun than watching them beat some community college or online school by 80 in a glorified scrimmage, where they're forced to have shortened quarters and a running clock in 2nd half, like they did last year.

Quote from: Etchglow on April 08, 2025, 04:10:49 PMhttps://x.com/ChrisAGacayan/status/1909639624500060322?s=19

Gacayan into the portal.

wtf... unreal

Quote from: UMHB03 on April 09, 2025, 03:06:39 PMSure, I would definitely prefer D3 opponents, but since we seem to be unable to find anyone willing to step up to the challenge outside of Whitewater, I figure an FCS opponent would be a lot more fun than watching them beat some community college or online school by 80 in a glorified scrimmage, where they're forced to have shortened quarters and a running clock in 2nd half, like they did last year.

Just never ever going to let go of this idea, are you? 

Quote from: wally_wabash on April 09, 2025, 03:32:24 PM

Quote from: UMHB03 on April 09, 2025, 03:06:39 PMSure, I would definitely prefer D3 opponents, but since we seem to be unable to find anyone willing to step up to the challenge outside of Whitewater, I figure an FCS opponent would be a lot more fun than watching them beat some community college or online school by 80 in a glorified scrimmage, where they're forced to have shortened quarters and a running clock in 2nd half, like they did last year.

Just never ever going to let go of this idea, are you? 

Nope. If Whitewater can afford to make the trip, surely others can too, especially the other schools in our region.

Not sure why you get so butt hurt about it.

I tend to agree that playing a first year FCS school is way better than playing a sandlot game. Wesley did it when they played an Independent schedule and had to travel all over the place.

Wesley vs Charlotte

Oh, for sure. I'd love to see UMHB go up against a first-year FCS program and see how they stack up. No doubt it'd be competitive and something both fan bases would enjoy (from a UTRGV perspective, UMHB has the recent national titles, deep playoff runs, etc, so it'd be a quality opponent both ways).

The timing is what concerns me. Bethel will be very good again, potentially better than last year with a few of the guys returning for them. UW-Whitewater will no doubt have their same, hard-nosed, strong personnel and likely in the top 2 of the WIAC. Putting another massive challenge in the middle of that and risking injury for a game that won't help your playoff resume in any way is the only aspect that would make me cautious about that. There's no shame in playing 8 or 9 regular season games.

Getting the Bethel (TN) game set is really solid for me. I know they're NAIA but from a team building/experience standpoint it will be a fantastic opportunity for our guys to get their lick back and against a top 10 caliber NAIA team nonetheless.

The UTRGV concept is interesting, they'd probably make us travel to Edinburg (6 hour road trip) but we would likely win that game vs a first year FCS team. Either way that's probably going to remain a hypothetical - the idea is intriguing but I don't think it's likely to happen.

Quote from: CruFrenzy on April 09, 2025, 06:46:27 PMGetting the Bethel (TN) game set is really solid for me. I know they're NAIA but from a team building/experience standpoint it will be a fantastic opportunity for our guys to get their lick back and against a top 10 caliber NAIA team nonetheless.

The UTRGV concept is interesting, they'd probably make us travel to Edinburg (6 hour road trip) but we would likely win that game vs a first year FCS team. Either way that's probably going to remain a hypothetical - the idea is intriguing but I don't think it's likely to happen.

Yeah, I agree that it's unlikely they'd schedule a matchup like that. I just hope Harmon is considering all options to avoid some of the embarrassing matchups (including one that didn't even get played) that we had last year. Or even worse, having an incomplete schedule.


In related news, Howard Payne has released their schedule, so we now know two more parts of ours:


9-06  PACIFIC
9-13  @ TLU
9-20  WAYLAND BAPTIST
9-27  @ McMurry
10-04  @ Hardin-Simmons
10-11  ETBU
10-18  @ UMHB
11-01  HARDIN-SIMMONS
11-08  @ ETBU
11-15  UMHB

TBH...I think the time of non-scholarship athletes is running out.

For smaller schools....where NIL money won't be abundant.... the only way to hold onto their athletes will be via scholarships.

Does that mean D3 eventually ends up adding limited scholarships?  Perhaps.
Does that mean more and more schools will opt to D2 or NAIA to offer scholarship?  Perhaps.

That's why I think this 10 year deal for the ASC is a bandaid and not a cure for a bigger problem.  Unless the ASC can grow to beyond the six.

Ultimately....IMHO.... we have 10 years for UMHB to prepare for FCS and everyone else to prepare for D2 or NAIA.

Who knows what things will look like in 10 years.  Maybe...just maybe the NCAA or the courts can get NIL and the portal under some kind of control.

Quote from: Mavchamp on April 09, 2025, 07:43:16 PMTBH...I think the time of non-scholarship athletes is running out.

For smaller schools....where NIL money won't be abundant.... the only way to hold onto their athletes will be via scholarships.

Does that mean D3 eventually ends up adding limited scholarships?  Perhaps.
Does that mean more and more schools will opt to D2 or NAIA to offer scholarship?  Perhaps.

That's why I think this 10 year deal for the ASC is a bandaid and not a cure for a bigger problem.  Unless the ASC can grow to beyond the six.

Ultimately....IMHO.... we have 10 years for UMHB to prepare for FCS and everyone else to prepare for D2 or NAIA.

Who knows what things will look like in 10 years.  Maybe...just maybe the NCAA or the courts can get NIL and the portal under some kind of control.

I think this is a weird take. D3 is non-scholarship. The students generate revenue for the school. The students know when they go they are playing for the love of the game. Sure, a select few will star and try and transfer out, especially from the football factory D3 schools, but the students that go to the school because the school is what they want, academically, socially, geographically, that's not going to be a problem. And that is most of D3.

You look at the NESCAC schools, the UAA, and the vast majority of the better academic D3s, and transfers in or out aren't really a problem. Even the vast majority of liberal arts schools that are the backbone of the northeast and midwest D3s, the athletes are there playing the sport because they love it, but they are going to the school for the education.

It's the schools that don't have that student body, they have athletes chasing playing time and just paying credits as a fee, and those are not going to hold on to their best athletes. But the athletes were never at the school because it's where they wanted to be, it's just a stepping stone to somewhere else, and the education probably matters very little to them if at all. But those schools are, by far, the outliers of D3.

Plus, it only matters in football and basketball. Most D3s need the revenue. So you miss out on those players that would be borderline D1? No big deal, it's not really what 99% of D3 schools are competing for anyway. If you think D3 is going away, I don't think you understand D3 finance.

UMHB in football, and that program, is not what D3 looks like in general.

I agree 100%.

UMHB and HSU are not what most of D3 looks like.  And therein with the issues of the purple schools by so many.

I honestly have no idea why HPU and ETBU chose to stand together with them instead of going the way of the SCAC.....but it sounds like neither were going to be invited even though their programs look nothing like the other two.

I think it was just a matter of survival.

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I also agree that the ideal situation is that students go to schools to get an education and play for the love of the game.

I think it still exists in a lot of D3....but it seems NIL and the portal are changing that.  It's not just happening at UMHB and HSU.

It's happening across D3 from what it seems. 

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I think students are now taking action when it was harder to do so before.  Students don't want to pay to go to school and sit on the bench.  If they can transfer somewhere and get on the field. 

Same with players that think they can get a scholarship by moving up to D2 or higher.  It was harder back then.  It's much easier now.

I hate it.  I wish people would be loyal.  But it feels like that ship is sailing.  Sadly.

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I personally don't want ETBU...or HPU to leave D3.  I think they fit the blueprint of what you are describing.  But the landscape around them is dictating other things.

I don't want them to move up to D2 or to the NAIA.

But how things stand with the ASC and the purple schools....I don't think it's sustainable long term.

JMHO.

Quote from: jknezek on April 09, 2025, 08:24:29 PMYou look at the NESCAC schools, the UAA, and the vast majority of the better academic D3s, and transfers in or out aren't really a problem. Even the vast majority of liberal arts schools that are the backbone of the northeast and midwest D3s, the athletes are there playing the sport because they love it, but they are going to the school for the education.

I assume that means NYU of the UAA counts as the real D3 then?

Their starting 5 in the national championship game
23    Freeney, Zay - Senior that played all 4 years at NYU    
30    How, Tristan - Grad Transfer in his first year with the team after going to the University of Virginia
34    Susko, Brock - Grad Transfer in his first year with the team after going to Cal Lutheran
45    Onuama, Emmanuel - Grad student playing in second year with NYU after 3 years at Columbia
22    Stone, Jack - Grad Transfer in his first year with the team after going to Carnegie Mellon

The other 3 players that touched the court
02    Sanders, Hampton - Sophomore that started at NYU
20    Oyigbo, Chuma - Grad Transfer in his first year with the team after going to St. Michael's College
24    Moussako, Bryan - Junior that played with NYU last year after transferring from Franklin and Marshall

I am not naive, going to another school after you graduated from another college is the best option but clearly schools at all levels are looking to add talent however they can get it.

Sure. The grad transfer rule is about to become a lot less relevant now that covid years are over. And yes, the UAA schools had an advantage due to their graduate programs and reputation. But that's ending. As you pointed out, those students finished undergrad degrees elsewhere and had the benefit of playing sports for another year at another school while getting a grad degree.

It's a lot different than portal hopping because you simply don't care about where the education comes from, you just want to play a sport and have to get credits while you do it.

Quote from: UMHB03 on April 09, 2025, 03:57:24 PMNope. If Whitewater can afford to make the trip, surely others can too, especially the other schools in our region.

I know you guys like to cosplay as the Boise State of D3 and pretend that everyone's just too scared to play you. The reality is different:

1. In D3, athletics are a huge component of the overall campus enrollment strategy

2. Most D3 schools have largely regional student recruitment footprints, not national ones.

3. As such, a major purpose of scheduling out of conference games is to aid your coaching staff in getting into an area of the state or region where your institution recruits heavily.

4. Because of the northeast/midwest skew of D3 institutions, Central Texas is in few schools' campus-wide recruiting footprints.

All this means that the reality is, UMHB is of no use to most of the schools in D3. They're not looking to build up a bulletproof Pool C resume, get home field through the semis, prepare their team for a Stagg Bowl run. And even if they are, the thing they're trying to do first is ensure that 40-50 guys show up on campus every fall. And playing you doesn't help with that goal. These institutions all have bigger things to worry about than if UMHB fans think they're scared to take an L.

Your fundamental misunderstanding of this dynamic is embarrassing.