How come every time I open my big mouth, the yankees start winning and sox start losing again?

Ive come to a decision that I don't hate the yankees players or fans.  Its the clown owners and management that I really have come down to hate.  What a bunch of clowns.

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     Re: Middle Atlantic Conference
« Reply #3592 on: Today at 09:41:52 am »     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: Ralph Turner on Yesterday at 01:16:05 pm
Quote from: rams1102 on May 24, 2008, 10:09:30 am
PA / WUDLINE,

I may as well get into some trouble cause everything is so quiet. The travel in the NJAC is a little tough. Buff, Brock, Morris are 5+ hours and Cort 4+. I'm trying to take an average. There is no dis-respect to any of these teams, but would it not make sence for the above to be absorbed into the E8 and LL for Football and bring Wesley and Salisbury to the NJAC for Football only. W.Conn would probably have the worst travel @4+ hours. In reality this really makes sence, but actually it will not because of commitments, NCAA, Conferences and Politics. Thoughts?

Less then (3) months and here we go !!!

IMHO, it is beginning to happen.  The E8 lost affiliate Norwich which puts the AQ in jeopardy.  The Northwest Conference, which has two more national titles than the E8 since the inception of the pools in 1999, did not receive a Pool B bid last year.  The E8 is looking at strategies to avoid that.  The SUNYAC teams, Brock, Buff, Cort and Morris, will fulfill the four core member requirement, should the SUNYAC seek to sponsor football.  If the E8 pre-empts that move by accepting the SUNYAC schools, then the E8 has 9 ready made games, in closest proximity possible.

What happens in the NJAC?  I think that they accept the ACFC schools.  The only challenge for the MAC is to find 3 non-conference games to fill the schedules, especially if the Centennial is playing 8 conference games, the NJAC accepts the ACFC schools (including Apprentice) and is playing 9-conference games and the Liberty League is playing 7 conference games.



We have talked about this for a few years and basically makes sence for the Up-State NJAC schools to be absorbed by the E-8 and LL and the ACFC to the NJAC. With the E-8 losing it's AQ next year, I could see something happen like the E-8 taking Cortland and leaving the others in the NJAC. The best for everyone would be like you said, but that scenario being very attractive, IMHO will never happen. Any comments?

Happy Memorial Day to all. God Bless our Vets, our Men and Women currently serving and God Bless America !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Quote from: rams1102 on May 26, 2008, 09:44:21 AM


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     Re: Middle Atlantic Conference
« Reply #3592 on: Today at 09:41:52 am »     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: Ralph Turner on Yesterday at 01:16:05 pm
Quote from: rams1102 on May 24, 2008, 10:09:30 am
PA / WUDLINE,

I may as well get into some trouble cause everything is so quiet. The travel in the NJAC is a little tough. Buff, Brock, Morris are 5+ hours and Cort 4+. I'm trying to take an average. There is no dis-respect to any of these teams, but would it not make sence for the above to be absorbed into the E8 and LL for Football and bring Wesley and Salisbury to the NJAC for Football only. W.Conn would probably have the worst travel @4+ hours. In reality this really makes sence, but actually it will not because of commitments, NCAA, Conferences and Politics. Thoughts?

Less then (3) months and here we go !!!

IMHO, it is beginning to happen.  The E8 lost affiliate Norwich which puts the AQ in jeopardy.  The Northwest Conference, which has two more national titles than the E8 since the inception of the pools in 1999, did not receive a Pool B bid last year.  The E8 is looking at strategies to avoid that.  The SUNYAC teams, Brock, Buff, Cort and Morris, will fulfill the four core member requirement, should the SUNYAC seek to sponsor football.  If the E8 pre-empts that move by accepting the SUNYAC schools, then the E8 has 9 ready made games, in closest proximity possible.

What happens in the NJAC?  I think that they accept the ACFC schools.  The only challenge for the MAC is to find 3 non-conference games to fill the schedules, especially if the Centennial is playing 8 conference games, the NJAC accepts the ACFC schools (including Apprentice) and is playing 9-conference games and the Liberty League is playing 7 conference games.



We have talked about this for a few years and basically makes sence for the Up-State NJAC schools to be absorbed by the E-8 and LL and the ACFC to the NJAC. With the E-8 losing it's AQ next year, I could see something happen like the E-8 taking Cortland and leaving the others in the NJAC. The best for everyone would be like you said, but that scenario being very attractive, IMHO will never happen. Any comments?

Happy Memorial Day to all. God Bless our Vets, our Men and Women currently serving and God Bless America !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

I don't see the LL taking any public schools ever.  The E8 has offered membership to public schools seeing (Im guessing) that the academic quality of some public schools in upstate is equal to some private schools in the conference.

I also see the E8 trying to have the minimum amount of teams possible and still get the AQ.  That gives them leverage in playoff bids and some good out of conference games that only help each respective team.

That being said, Cortland seems like the obvious choice to join the E8.  Brockport being a distant third followed by Buff st, and then Morrisville .

I would agree and if I am Cortland I am jumping at the oppurtunity, as A) it gets you a lot less travel and b) it opens up the oppurtunity to schedule several non conference games, so if Rowan is still a big rival, then you schedule a Non Conference game with Rowan and so forth..

Quote from: Jonny Utah on May 26, 2008, 12:52:37 PM

Quote from: rams1102 on May 26, 2008, 09:44:21 AM


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     Re: Middle Atlantic Conference
« Reply #3592 on: Today at 09:41:52 am »     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QuoteQuote from: Ralph Turner on Yesterday at 01:16:05 pm

QuoteQuote from: rams1102 on May 24, 2008, 10:09:30 am
PA / WUDLINE,

I may as well get into some trouble cause everything is so quiet. The travel in the NJAC is a little tough. Buff, Brock, Morris are 5+ hours and Cort 4+. I'm trying to take an average. There is no dis-respect to any of these teams, but would it not make sence for the above to be absorbed into the E8 and LL for Football and bring Wesley and Salisbury to the NJAC for Football only. W.Conn would probably have the worst travel @4+ hours. In reality this really makes sence, but actually it will not because of commitments, NCAA, Conferences and Politics. Thoughts?

Less then (3) months and here we go !!!

IMHO, it is beginning to happen.  The E8 lost affiliate Norwich which puts the AQ in jeopardy.  The Northwest Conference, which has two more national titles than the E8 since the inception of the pools in 1999, did not receive a Pool B bid last year.  The E8 is looking at strategies to avoid that.  The SUNYAC teams, Brock, Buff, Cort and Morris, will fulfill the four core member requirement, should the SUNYAC seek to sponsor football.  If the E8 pre-empts that move by accepting the SUNYAC schools, then the E8 has 9 ready made games, in closest proximity possible.

What happens in the NJAC?  I think that they accept the ACFC schools.  The only challenge for the MAC is to find 3 non-conference games to fill the schedules, especially if the Centennial is playing 8 conference games, the NJAC accepts the ACFC schools (including Apprentice) and is playing 9-conference games and the Liberty League is playing 7 conference games.

We have talked about this for a few years and basically makes sence for the Up-State NJAC schools to be absorbed by the E-8 and LL and the ACFC to the NJAC. With the E-8 losing it's AQ next year, I could see something happen like the E-8 taking Cortland and leaving the others in the NJAC. The best for everyone would be like you said, but that scenario being very attractive, IMHO will never happen. Any comments?

Happy Memorial Day to all. God Bless our Vets, our Men and Women currently serving and God Bless America !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

I don't see the LL taking any public schools ever.  The E8 has offered membership to public schools seeing (Im guessing) that the academic quality of some public schools in upstate is equal to some private schools in the conference.

I also see the E8 trying to have the minimum amount of teams possible and still get the AQ.  That gives them leverage in playoff bids and some good out of conference games that only help each respective team.

That being said, Cortland seems like the obvious choice to join the E8.  Brockport being a distant third followed by Buff st, and then Morrisville .

Rams1102 and jonny, I have tried to format those multiple quotes to reflect the posters' contributions.

The dynamic that has not been mentioned is the persistence of the SUNYAC schools to go as a block.  Scheduling and travel budgets will play a major force here.  The NJAC wants the SUNYAC schools to fill out the scheduling problems that the Rowan's, etc. have had.  The SUNYAC schools now have a 9-game conference schedule!

If I am Cortland or Brock's president/AD (and hearing from the SUNYAC Commissioner whispering in my ear) making the decision, then I don't shaft my fellow conference mates and jump.  (Buff wants to save on that travel time more than anyone.)

If you are Cortland, whom do you schedule in those weeks that you do not have already available?  The 9-game NJAC conference schedule still leaves the Cortaca Jug game avialable.  When the Cortaca Jug game becomes the last game of the E8 season, then you still have one open date to schedule someone that you are not playing.  (If the NJAC replaces the SUNYAC-4 with the ACFC-4, there are very few open dates on the NJAC schedule to worry about filling!)

Well Im just speculating here but this is what I think anyway.

Someone (I dont know who) seems to have decided that Cortland is going to get most of the money to be spent on athletic facilities of the SUNY schools.  I do not know that much about the SUNY administration and who decides who gets how much money, but it is clear that Cortland is getting what Albany and Buffalo got 10-15 years ago.  It just seems to me that Cortland is separating itself from the rest of the pack.

Academically the school seems to be making a name for itself compared to the other SUNY Schools as well.  (Maritime really isnt "upstate") and may be better off in the NJAC (or southern conference) permenently.

EDIT: (Maritime is going into the MAC I just saw)

By joining the E8, Cortland will help its image in the eyes of many.

As for filling out the rest of the schedule that is easy.  Brockport, Hobart, Union, RPI, any MAC school, and NEFC school can be filled for those ones.  Many of those are even day-trips.  I mean, how many overnight trips are required in the e8 now as it is?  Just Springfield has a 5+ hour trip.  I believe for IC, it is the only overnight trip in conference.  Cortland would have to spend more on travel if they joined a SUNY league (with Maritime, Buffalo and if Canton got a team)

Quote from: Jonny Utah on May 26, 2008, 03:37:46 PM
Well I'm just speculating here but this is what I think anyway.

Someone (I dont know who) seems to have decided that Cortland is going to get most of the money to be spent on athletic facilities of the SUNY schools.  I do not know that much about the SUNY administration and who decides who gets how much money, but it is clear that Cortland is getting what Albany and Buffalo got 10-15 years ago.  It just seems to me that Cortland is separating itself from the rest of the pack.

Academically the school seems to be making a name for itself compared to the other SUNY Schools as well.  (Maritime really isnt "upstate") and may be better off in the NJAC (or southern conference) permenently.

By joining the E8, Cortland will help its image in the eyes of many.

As for filling out the rest of the schedule that is easy.  Brockport, Hobart, Union, RPI, any MAC school, and NEFC school can be filled for those ones.  Many of those are even day-trips.  I mean, how many overnight trips are required in the e8 now as it is?  Just Springfield has a 5+ hour trip.  I believe for IC, it is the only overnight trip in conference.  Cortland would have to spend more on travel if they joined a SUNY league (with Maritime, Buffalo and if Canton got a team)

Thanks, jonny.  (For newcomers, the legislative change in the E8 which we are discussing is permitting affiliates to participate in the E8 in football alone.  No other sport has been addressed.) 

---

Edit:  Hyperlink to E8 press release added above.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 26, 2008, 03:47:10 PM

Quote from: Jonny Utah on May 26, 2008, 03:37:46 PM
Well I'm just speculating here but this is what I think anyway.

Someone (I dont know who) seems to have decided that Cortland is going to get most of the money to be spent on athletic facilities of the SUNY schools.  I do not know that much about the SUNY administration and who decides who gets how much money, but it is clear that Cortland is getting what Albany and Buffalo got 10-15 years ago.  It just seems to me that Cortland is separating itself from the rest of the pack.

Academically the school seems to be making a name for itself compared to the other SUNY Schools as well.  (Maritime really isnt "upstate") and may be better off in the NJAC (or southern conference) permenently.

By joining the E8, Cortland will help its image in the eyes of many.

As for filling out the rest of the schedule that is easy.  Brockport, Hobart, Union, RPI, any MAC school, and NEFC school can be filled for those ones.  Many of those are even day-trips.  I mean, how many overnight trips are required in the e8 now as it is?  Just Springfield has a 5+ hour trip.  I believe for IC, it is the only overnight trip in conference.  Cortland would have to spend more on travel if they joined a SUNY league (with Maritime, Buffalo and if Canton got a team)

Thanks, jonny.  (For newcomers, the legislative change in the E8 about which we are discussing is permitting affiliates to participate in the E8 in football alone.  No other sport has been addressed.) 

No I know.  I wasn't saying anything different.  As there are only 16 (17 with Hamilton) d3 football teams in upstate NY, it seems that there are 1600 teams for every other sport!

Ralph / Jonny,

Let's face it guys, this is all about the E-8 and $. Last year the E-8 had (2) participants in the dance. Get below (7) and that does not happen. All the private school BS means nothing without the AQ. IHMO I hope the (4) teams join the E-8 and LL, and the ACFC comes to the NJAC, but we all know that will not happen. It's about $ and the dance. For 2009 you can put it in the book that Cortland or B-Port jump from the NJAC and everything goes on. Comments ?

Quote from: rams1102 on May 26, 2008, 07:36:47 PM
Ralph / Jonny,

Let's face it guys, this is all about the E-8 and $. Last year the E-8 had (2) participants in the dance. Get below (7) and that does not happen. All the private school BS means nothing without the AQ. IHMO I hope the (4) teams join the E-8 and LL, and the ACFC comes to the NJAC, but we all know that will not happen. It's about $ and the dance. For 2009 you can put it in the book that Cortland or B-Port jump from the NJAC and everything goes on. Comments ?

Good thoughts on this.

The questions that I see in your line of reasoning concern what the SUNYAC "conference" wants to do.  The SUNYAC will have 4 core members, which is the minimum to earn an AQ.  There are plenty of affiliates floating around the East Region who want an AQ.  The question is do they want to drive far enough to get one.  (They only need three affiliates and two years "on probation" as we have seen with the NWC, the Presidents AC, and the new Northern Athletics Conference and the SLIAC.)

I see the LL just staying where they are, i.e., not adding anyone.  The LL is a "stable" 8-team conference.

The ACFC-3/4.  They need a conference just to get games, and they have been happy driving to Brock and Buff in the past.  Presto, a ready made AQ in 2011 for any conference needing 3 affiliate teams.
SUNY-Maritime is valuable just as a warm body that fields a team every season.
Castleton State is adding football.  The North Atlantic has a bunch of football playing teams nearby, but are a few core members shy of the four!
The NJAC has the longest history of working to keep its AQ, e.g., Western Connecticut, Buff State, Cortland State.

pbr's head hurts too much to read all this after a weekend of complete and utter destrction of one's liver...pbr's brain synapses are firing at 50% right now and needs some serious sleep, pbr try to decipher all this realignment talk later...ugh pbr's head hurts

The Memorial Day services in Secaucus last Thursday evening and yesterday morning were well attended and went off well.  We have had the same kid playing taps since he was about 12, he is now a Jr or Sr in high school, the kid keeps getting better.  Yesterday the man who has been my mentor in the VFW and a PT boat sailor read the names of all the Secaucus war dead.  As he read each name a Boy Scout placed a flag at the crosses that we erect at the town hall every memorial day.  After the reading of the war dead the town kid played Taps and we raised the flags back to full staff. 

Today the Stalkerette is taking Buddy Poppies to her class and teachers and is going to teach them what the Poppy means to the vets.

Thanks to all who took time to remember the men and women who gave their lives for our freedom.

Quote from: rams1102 on May 26, 2008, 07:36:47 PM
Ralph / Jonny,

Let's face it guys, this is all about the E-8 and $. Last year the E-8 had (2) participants in the dance. Get below (7) and that does not happen. All the private school BS means nothing without the AQ. IHMO I hope the (4) teams join the E-8 and LL, and the ACFC comes to the NJAC, but we all know that will not happen. It's about $ and the dance. For 2009 you can put it in the book that Cortland or B-Port jump from the NJAC and everything goes on. Comments ?

I don't think the amount of teams in the conference matters in terms of who gets in or not.  If the E8 had 5 teams and IC won the conference but SJF went 9-1 while beating Mt. Union, you would still have two teams in.  Looking back I think you can say Ithaca and SJF deserved to go as much as any other eastern teams.

And the LL is not going to let any state schools in.  And I dont think the E8 has any problems in terms of finding other teams to play either.

this whole E8 "invitation" may just have been a formality with some schools (cortland?) already gotten the wink wink.

Quote from: Jonny Utah on May 27, 2008, 11:07:43 AM

Quote from: rams1102 on May 26, 2008, 07:36:47 PM
Ralph / Jonny,

Let's face it guys, this is all about the E-8 and $. Last year the E-8 had (2) participants in the dance. Get below (7) and that does not happen. All the private school BS means nothing without the AQ. IHMO I hope the (4) teams join the E-8 and LL, and the ACFC comes to the NJAC, but we all know that will not happen. It's about $ and the dance. For 2009 you can put it in the book that Cortland or B-Port jump from the NJAC and everything goes on. Comments ?

I don't think the amount of teams in the conference matters in terms of who gets in or not.  If the E8 had 5 teams and IC won the conference but SJF went 9-1 while beating Mt. Union, you would still have two teams in.  Looking back I think you can say Ithaca and SJF deserved to go as much as any other eastern teams.

And the LL is not going to let any state schools in.  And I dont think the E8 has any problems in terms of finding other teams to play either.

this whole E8 "invitation" may just have been a formality with some schools (cortland?) already gotten the wink wink.

If the E-8 had (5) teams and no AQ, you would fall with the rest of the independents and take your chances. As Ralph said, the key is to keep (7) members and the AQ.

Quote from: rams1102 on May 27, 2008, 01:18:43 PM

Quote from: Jonny Utah on May 27, 2008, 11:07:43 AM

Quote from: rams1102 on May 26, 2008, 07:36:47 PM
Ralph / Jonny,

Let's face it guys, this is all about the E-8 and $. Last year the E-8 had (2) participants in the dance. Get below (7) and that does not happen. All the private school BS means nothing without the AQ. IHMO I hope the (4) teams join the E-8 and LL, and the ACFC comes to the NJAC, but we all know that will not happen. It's about $ and the dance. For 2009 you can put it in the book that Cortland or B-Port jump from the NJAC and everything goes on. Comments ?

I don't think the amount of teams in the conference matters in terms of who gets in or not.  If the E8 had 5 teams and IC won the conference but SJF went 9-1 while beating Mt. Union, you would still have two teams in.  Looking back I think you can say Ithaca and SJF deserved to go as much as any other eastern teams.

And the LL is not going to let any state schools in.  And I dont think the E8 has any problems in terms of finding other teams to play either.

this whole E8 "invitation" may just have been a formality with some schools (cortland?) already gotten the wink wink.

If the E-8 had (5) teams and no AQ, you would fall with the rest of the independents and take your chances. As Ralph said, the key is to keep (7) members and the AQ.

Ok I hear ya.  But if the E8 lost an AQ, another indy spot (pool c?) would open up as well.

You definetly want that AQ for that year where the top teams might not get in other wise.  Anything else is a bonus.  Although like I said before, I think Ithaca might have been the 2nd best team in the east at the end of last season.