All Decade Team?

[Ryan Tipps]

Said it before and I'll say it again. where was Chris Warrick in all of this? I think he was overlooked, and shouldve been placed somewhere. Hes got more passing yards with 10,542 than all those guys. And only Brett Elliot has more touchdown passes. Other than that a great job.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Warrick was never even on the All-America team, let alone being a serious contender for the All-Decade team.

And ditto what Pat said regarding going by stats alone.

[tutiger]

If we were going simply on raw number of passing yards, there's a guy named Vogelbach at Guilford who trumps.

You pretty much had to be a two-time All-American to even get in the discussion, or have a really compelling reason why you should be on the list otherwise. Warrick did enter the season 22nd all-time in Division III and he was 16th among players eligible for All-Decade consideration in passing yards.

Chad Johnson was a 1-time All-American.  Yeah he won a National Championship, but Hicks was the stud of that team, not Johnson.

Arth was 3-7 against Mount, Ohio Northern and Capital. 

Hampton was 7-2 in playoff games he played in, one loss of which was to a very good Bridgewater team that was national runner up that year.

Comparing Hampton's and Arth's playoff performances in their team's banner year (2002), Hampton (76 of 123, 61.8%, 1243 yds, 11 tds, 3 ints) definitely outperformed Arth (51 of 97, 52.6%, 759 yds, 8 tds, 2 ints). 

What's funny is d3football.com gave Hampton the 1st team All-American nod over Arth that year.  Quote from the 2002 All-American List page on the website:

"Some decisions were easy; some decisions were difficult. Making Roy Hampton the first team quarterback was easy."

What happened between 2002 and now?  Hampton deserves to be on this list.

[Pat Coleman]

Arth was an elite quarterback for more than 2002, tutiger. It's a career award, not one year. Actually, Arth was a four-year starter, and it's safe to say John Carroll hasn't done jack as a program since he graduated, isn't it?

Interesting use of stats to point out that he was 3-7 against two teams. He was 0-5 against Mount Union (and most are ... well, actually, most are 0-4) and that leaves 3-2 against everyone else if your math is right.

With Johnson, also, more than one year.

Hampton was discussed (unlike Warrick, to be honest). But he didn't make the cut.

[Pat Coleman]

What happened between 2002 and now?

To be concise, absolutely nothing. But stuff happened before 2002 as well.

[thewaterboy]

Just curious is all  ..... What exactly was the criteria for this? I dont think All-America honors are really a show of a players talent, etc. In the case of Warrick, for example, in 2005 looking at the 4 all-americans. The numbers show below.

1st Team      Brett Elliot     4019 yards     49 TD
2nd Team      R. Harbaugh    3521 yds     29 TD
3rd Team      A. Knoblauch    3307 yds     29 TD
Hon.Mention   Justin Jacobs   3556 yds     35 TD

Warrick      3710 yards     37 TD

Warrick had better numbers statistically than all of these except for Elliot who played in a program that netted 1245 rushing yards as a team that year. 2005 wesley RB Kevin Nelson ran for 1024 that year and the team netted 2013 yards. All I am proving by this is that past All-American honors sometimes arent really "solid" to go off of entirely. I think you need to also take into consideration stats, the team they played for (Greg Micheli was a pretty easy pick and I would say had an easier job behind those Mount o-linemen than Vogelbach at Guilford), and what they did for their program.

All of this said, at the end of the day, when it comes to stuff like All-American/Decade awards, its all one big opinion, no ones right, no ones wrong. Thats my take on that whole thing (in my blue-tinted glasses  ).

[tutiger]

Arth was an elite quarterback for more than 2002, tutiger. It's a career award, not one year. Actually, Arth was a four-year starter, and it's safe to say John Carroll hasn't done jack as a program since he graduated, isn't it?

Interesting use of stats to point out that he was 3-7 against two teams. He was 0-5 against Mount Union (and most are ... well, actually, most are 0-4) and that leaves 3-2 against everyone else if your math is right.

With Johnson, also, more than one year.

Hampton was discussed (unlike Warrick, to be honest). But he didn't make the cut.

Actually, I didn't consider Arth's first season, so you can probably bump that to 3-10.  Did you consider non-2000s seasons?

Comparing their performances in the playoffs in 2002 was not to define Arth's career by one year.  I was just trying to compare apples to apples since that was the year he got some significant playoff PT, when the numbers and results really count.

It would also be pretty easy to argue that Hampton would have been a 4-year starter had he not come in behind Mike Burton, an elite QB in his own right.  Similarly, although Trinity has had success since Hampton left, I think its easy to say that the Burton and Hampton years represent the upper echelon of Trinity football in the D3 era.

As far as Johnson's all-american honors are concerned, he only shows up one time on the website.  He was notably omitted from the '99 team, further reinforcing my assertion that Hicks was the man on that championship PLU team.  I would be surprised to find that you guys considered other all-american teams other than D3football.  Its also notable Johnson's banner 2000 season ended with a first round loss. 

[wildcat11]

If we were going simply on raw number of passing yards, there's a guy named Vogelbach at Guilford who trumps.

You pretty much had to be a two-time All-American to even get in the discussion, or have a really compelling reason why you should be on the list otherwise. Warrick did enter the season 22nd all-time in Division III and he was 16th among players eligible for All-Decade consideration in passing yards.

Chad Johnson was a 1-time All-American.  Yeah he won a National Championship, but Hicks was the stud of that team, not Johnson.

Sorry man...as someone who played against and watched that PLU team that's about as big of a false statement as possible...both of them were studs.  I watched Johnson put up 370 passing yards (3 pass TDs, 1 rush TD) in 1999 when PLU gave Linfield their worst loss ever at home and then he followed that up with 450 yards passing and 3 more TDs and was the only reason PLU almost pulled out a win vs my 'Cats the very next season.  Hicks was a hammer of a back but Johnson's pin point passing and execution of that Lute offense was the engine of that program for 3 years.

I know you're trying to make your guy look better by taking Johnson down a peg but you're way off base on that statement.

[tutiger]

If we were going simply on raw number of passing yards, there's a guy named Vogelbach at Guilford who trumps.

You pretty much had to be a two-time All-American to even get in the discussion, or have a really compelling reason why you should be on the list otherwise. Warrick did enter the season 22nd all-time in Division III and he was 16th among players eligible for All-Decade consideration in passing yards.

Chad Johnson was a 1-time All-American.  Yeah he won a National Championship, but Hicks was the stud of that team, not Johnson.

Sorry man...as someone who played against and watched that PLU team that's about as big of a false statement as possible...both of them were studs.  I watched Johnson put up 370 passing yards (3 pass TDs, 1 rush TD) in 1999 when PLU gave Linfield their worst loss ever at home and then he followed that up with 450 yards passing and 3 more TDs and was the only reason PLU almost pulled out a win vs my 'Cats the very next season.  Hicks was a hammer of a back but Johnson's pin point passing and execution of that Lute offense was the engine of that program for 3 years.

I know you're trying to make your guy look better by taking Johnson down a peg but you're way off base on that statement.

I'm not trying to deny that Johnson was good.  Let's get a little bit of perspective back here.  We're talking about being a 1-time All-American vs. a 2-time All-American.  When you're talking about an All-Decade team, these are the types of things you debate.  All of these guys were great. 

I saw Johnson play, too, and he was good.  I'm speaking to what I saw, and what I saw was Hicks go for 180 total yards and 4 TDs in a national semifinal, on the road at Trinity.  There aren't too many people that can make that claim.  To me, he was the difference on that team.

[Pat Coleman]

I am willing to consider that in our first year of covering Division III football nationally there may have been more deserving quarterbacks than we knew of. The first year of any nomination process is always a learning experience.

By the way, if you read the story or read the All-Decade listing, your question above would be answered.

[Pat Coleman]

I am willing to consider that in our first year of covering Division III football nationally there may have been more deserving quarterbacks than we knew of. The first year of any nomination process is always a learning experience.

By the way, if you read the story or read the All-Decade listing, your question above would be answered.

And by the way, every year our All-American team is announced before the national championship game. It doesn't include performance in the Stagg Bowl. That was a factor as well in this, as it should be.

[tutiger]

I am willing to consider that in our first year of covering Division III football nationally there may have been more deserving quarterbacks than we knew of. The first year of any nomination process is always a learning experience.

By the way, if you read the story or read the All-Decade listing, your question above would be answered.

And by the way, every year our All-American team is announced before the national championship game. It doesn't include performance in the Stagg Bowl. That was a factor as well in this, as it should be.

I should hope it would be.  And I did read the story.  I just forgot about that sentence on the list page, as the main story only addressed elgibility.

[Pat Coleman]

There have definitely been players who played themselves into better positions on our All-Decade team in the Stagg Bowl. Johnson, A.J. Raebel, Greg Micheli.

[Raider 68]

Is there a conference breakdown of the All-Decade team?