Bennett Rankings -- Absurd?

[PaulNewman]

I've noticed more and  more references to the Bennett rankings as though they have accrued some real clout.  A look at their D3 men's preseason rankings really makes one wonder.  They have well known top 10 and top 15 teams ranked in the 30s, 40s, 60s, etc.  And the top 25 includes almost every single NESCAC and UAA school.   Conn College is #11 while SLU is #20.  Trinity (CT) is #18 while Trinity (TX) is #57.  Chicago is in their top 20 while Dominican is #125.  Hamilton is #28, Colby is #51 and Bates #54 while Oneonta is #60, Kenyon is #63 and Ohio Northern is #70.  St Olaf is #25 and St Scholastica is #141.

What possible credence should be given to this Bennett system?

[LaPaz]

off topic- compare SOS for 2014 SLU and Conn College. The eye test tells me SLU has one tough non-conf against UR and that's it. Add that to a decent league in Liberty League compared to Conn College and Nescac. Conn wins my off topic SOS b/w those 2 schools

[woacfan]

Couldn't agree more NCAC.  I think the pre-season rating for D3 teams are generally absurd, but the Bennett rankings rarely have any relation to reality.  I follow the women's game more.  In the Ohio Athletic Conference  --inaccurately labeled the "Ohio" Conference, they have NCAA finalist Capital at 25 and their runner-up JCU behind four other teams in the conference at 139.  Mount Union, who lost to the Streaks is listed as 136, BW (who also lost to them) is listed as 117 and ONU, who they beat in the semi-finals is ranked 80th. 

Its really part of the sports analytics fad that has hit sports.  Because they are numbers they must be true.  The old adage applies,  Garbage in-Garbage out.   

The only "ranking" that matters is where you are at the end of the season.  Anything outside of that is just pure speculation. 

[PaulNewman]

LaPaz, you noted "off topic" but I assume you thought somewhat relevant as a reply.  A list based solely on SOS would be fine, but Bennett purports to be an actual overall ranking.  They highlight a Top 25.  SLU in my view is a strong Elite 8 contender with probably a better than decent shot at the Final Four and not a bad darkhorse pick for the national title.  Even if you believe I am overestimating I doubt you would argue anything remotely close for Conn College.  And there is no way you can have Trinity (CT) at #18 and Trinity (TX) at #57.  OWU is at #41.  Bennett on its website makes big deal of their "special sauce" algorithm.   They need a new sauce.

Their ranking of conferences isn't much better.  I won't argue with NESCAC, UAA, and NJAC in the first 3 spots, but the NCAC at #14?  Bad job, and IMHO a disservice.

[LaPaz]

NCAC-totally agree.

[Saint of Old]

I too must quibble  with the Bennett Ranking.
Former Champion Trinity (TX) at 57?
Makes no sense what so ever. For those who know D3 soccer well (and not crunching numbers), they understand that History and Tradition perhaps matters more than any other division in soccer.

The old guard will be good year in year out:
Trinity (Former Champ)
OWU (Former Champ)
Messiah(Former Champ)
Wheaton(Former Champ)
Williams (Former Champ)
There are some new (past decade) kids on the block who are building their own and fear no one:
Amherst
Loras
Rutgers

There are also teams looking to break through Teams looking to break through who no one would be surprised to see them in a final 4 or fighting for a title:
U of R
Brandeis (Former Champ)
Stevens

To me it is tough to see any of the above teams ranked much below the top 25 in the Nation on any given week.

The one thing most of these programs share in common though, is they do not care much about rankings.

[All NESCAC]

NCAC-totally agree.

If you read into the Bennett Ranking "special sauce" its done mostly through strength of conference and strength of schedule, thus if you called it the Bennett Strength of Schedule Ranking it would be more appropriate.  It's only discussion relevance is for strength of schedule.  Definitely not for overall individual team rankings.  But it does shine the light and thus discussion on who is playing tough competition and who is not.

[lastguyoffthebench]

Tufts ranked 4th in nation, 4th in the NESCAC!   

During NESCAC great recent final four run:

2013:  WILLIAMS FINAL FOUR (Elms, WNEC, Brandeis, Amherst, Lost to Messiah)
2012:  WILLIAMS FINAL FOUR (SLU, Brandeis, Amherst, ONU)
2011:  MSU makes FINAL FOUR; CAMDEN beats Wesleyan and Babson to make Elite 8.
2010:  BOWDOIN FINAL FOUR (Eastern Conn, Amherst, Middlebury; Lost to Lynchburg) 
2009:  WILLIAMS FINAL FOUR (Husson, Rensselaer, York, CNU, Lost to Messiah;  Amherst L to York in round of 32; Bowdoin L to Plattsburgh 1st rd, Wesleyan L to Rochester in Swt16)
2008:  AMHERST FINAL FOUR (Beat SLU, Swat, Trinity; Lost to Stevens 4-1)
2007:  MIDDLEBURY NATIONAL CHAMPION (York beat Amherst in PK; Middlebury beat York; Middlebury two PKs FINAL 4 over Loras and Trinity)

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NESCAC vs NJAC NCAA TOURNAMENT GAMES (NJAC is 7-4):
2011:   Rutgers-Camden 2, Wesleyan 1
2010:   Middlebury 2, William Paterson 1
2006:   Montclair St 1, Wesleyan 0
2002:   Williams 4, Stockton 1
2000:   Rowan 2, Williams 1
1999:   Stockton 1, Williams 0   (ELITE 8)
1997:   TCNJ 2, Amherst 1
             Kean 5, Trinity 1.
             Trinity 2, Ramapo 1.   
1996:  TCNJ 1, Williams 0 (OT) (ELITE 8) (TCNJ won title)
1995:  Williams 3, TCNJ 0 (ELITE 8) (Williams won title)


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Regarding the UAA; maybe its a been a bit of unlucky early draws in the tournament, but here is a track record of their deepest runs:

1995:  Wash STL - Elite 8
1996:  Chicago  - Final 4  (TCNJ National Champions)
2006:  NYU - Final 4
2007:  Wash STL - Elite 8 (MSU also made Elite 8)
2009:  Rochester - Elite 8


I still prefer the Massey Ratings over Bennett Ratings:
http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=csoc2013&sub=11620

[lastguyoffthebench]

NCAC-totally agree.

If you read into the Bennett Ranking "special sauce" its done mostly through strength of conference and strength of schedule, thus if you called it the Bennett Strength of Schedule Ranking it would be more appropriate.  It's only discussion relevance is for strength of schedule.  Definitely not for overall individual team rankings.  But it does shine the light and thus discussion on who is playing tough competition and who is not.

While this is true, its more or less the emphasis on NESCAC in general because other than Williams, most of the NESCAC out-of-conference games were not that strong.   It is understandle, however, because any blemish decreases chances for post season appearance.

[All NESCAC]

NCAC-totally agree.

If you read into the Bennett Ranking "special sauce" its done mostly through strength of conference and strength of schedule, thus if you called it the Bennett Strength of Schedule Ranking it would be more appropriate.  It's only discussion relevance is for strength of schedule.  Definitely not for overall individual team rankings.  But it does shine the light and thus discussion on who is playing tough competition and who is not.

While this is true, its more or less the emphasis on NESCAC in general because other than Williams, most of the NESCAC out-of-conference games were not that strong.   It is understandle, however, because any blemish decreases chances for post season appearance.

Bennett Strength of Schedule does favor NESCAC because of the strong competitive in-league games.  I just checked out the Massey Rankings...good link.  Thanks.

[Brother Flounder]

Tufts ranked 4th in nation, 4th in the NESCAC!   

During NESCAC great recent final four run:

2013:  WILLIAMS FINAL FOUR (Elms, WNEC, Brandeis, Amherst, Lost to Messiah)
2012:  WILLIAMS FINAL FOUR (SLU, Brandeis, Amherst, ONU)
2011:  MSU makes FINAL FOUR; CAMDEN beats Wesleyan and Babson to make Elite 8.
2010:  BOWDOIN FINAL FOUR (Eastern Conn, Amherst, Middlebury; Lost to Lynchburg) 
2009:  WILLIAMS FINAL FOUR (Husson, Rensselaer, York, CNU, Lost to Messiah;  Amherst L to York in round of 32; Bowdoin L to Plattsburgh 1st rd, Wesleyan L to Rochester in Swt16)
2008:  AMHERST FINAL FOUR (Beat SLU, Swat, Trinity; Lost to Stevens 4-1)
2007:  MIDDLEBURY NATIONAL CHAMPION (York beat Amherst in PK; Middlebury beat York; Middlebury two PKs FINAL 4 over Loras and Trinity)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NESCAC vs NJAC NCAA TOURNAMENT GAMES (NJAC is 7-4):
2011:   Rutgers-Camden 2, Wesleyan 1
2010:   Middlebury 2, William Paterson 1
2006:   Montclair St 1, Wesleyan 0
2002:   Williams 4, Stockton 1
2000:   Rowan 2, Williams 1
1999:   Stockton 1, Williams 0   (ELITE 8)
1997:   TCNJ 2, Amherst 1
             Kean 5, Trinity 1.
             Trinity 2, Ramapo 1.   
1996:  TCNJ 1, Williams 0 (OT) (ELITE 8) (TCNJ won title)
1995:  Williams 3, TCNJ 0 (ELITE 8) (Williams won title)


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding the UAA; maybe its a been a bit of unlucky early draws in the tournament, but here is a track record of their deepest runs:

1995:  Wash STL - Elite 8
1996:  Chicago  - Final 4  (TCNJ National Champions)
2006:  NYU - Final 4
2007:  Wash STL - Elite 8 (MSU also made Elite 8)
2009:  Rochester - Elite 8


I still prefer the Massey Ratings over Bennett Ratings:
http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=csoc2013&sub=11620

How do the Massey Ratings work?  Have they been fairly accurate over the years?

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=csoc2014&sub=11620