Division III Schools With Division I Programs?

[MUCheats]

The Phil Beta Kappa issue has come up several times in the NCAC basketball room over the years, usually in conjunction with cross-league banter with OAC supporters, who are apt to point out that their league is top-to-bottom better than the NCAC in the major sports. There seems to be a very pronounced sense among many followers of the NCAC -- at least as far as I've seen in the rooms on this site -- that the NCAC member schools moved "up and out" when they formed the league, segregating themselves from what they felt were academically inferior schools in the OAC that they left behind, and that Phil Beta Kappa chapters are in some way indicative of that divide. I can't speak for either the NCAC or JCU as to whether JCU would currently meet NCAC membership standards or not.

Interestingly enough, when the Ohio Five and a few other schools left the OAC to form the NCAC, John Carroll was playing ball in the academically-oriented PAC with schools like Carnegie-Mellon and Washington & Jefferson.  Also on two separate occasions the NCAC has accepted new members directly from the OAC (Wittenberg in the late 1980s and Hiram in the late 1990s), so it wouldn't be unprecedented if JCU made the jump.  But like I said before, I'm not holding my breath on seeing the move happen, because I don't think it's a good fit for either side.

[smedindy]

Greg,

It's 384 miles from Crawfordsville to Washington, PA, but most all of that is a straight shot on I-70 from Indy all the way through Ohio. It's the same amount from C'ville to Hiram, Ohio and 458 miles to Meadville, PA. So W & J wouldn't be that onerous.

A 384-mile trip isn't onerous? You sound like Ralph "Deepintheheartatexas" Turner, Smed.

Oh, shucks. Besides Indy and Columbus there's no traffic and you can rocket through the hinterlands. Probably an easier drive than being stuck on the Dan Ryan or the Eisenhower.

[Gregory Sager]

It doesn't really take 6 1/4 hours to get from the Indiana line to downtown on the Dan Ryan at morning rush hour. It just feels like 6 1/4 hours.

[Pat Coleman]

So if we agree that forcing the DI schools in hockey and lacrosse to drop down to DIII is not an option, why not allow other DIII schools to decide for themselves whether or not to offer a DI showcase program?  I understand the DI tradition of hockey and lacrosse at schools like Colorado College, Clarkson, John Hopkins, etc., but it sounds like people are trying to have it both ways here.  What we currently have is a double-standard, we don't want to hurt the established tradition of certain sports at these schools, but we still want to maintain the spirit of the mission of DIII athletics?  Something's gotta give.

Why does something have to give?

This compromise have been years in the making.  As I understand it, a D-1 Lacrosse player at JHU cannot run tack or play football.  A D1 women's soccer player at Colorado College cannot be a D-III swimmer.

That's great, and that's the way it should be.  Limiting scholarship athletes at those schools to just the team they're on scholarship for makes perfect sense.  Why did it take so long to come to that common sense conclusion?  And now that that arrangement is in place, I see no reason why it can't be extended to other schools wishing to elevate a showcase athletic program to the Division I level with scholarships. 

It didn't take so long. That has been in place for years.

[MUCheats]

So if we agree that forcing the DI schools in hockey and lacrosse to drop down to DIII is not an option, why not allow other DIII schools to decide for themselves whether or not to offer a DI showcase program?  I understand the DI tradition of hockey and lacrosse at schools like Colorado College, Clarkson, John Hopkins, etc., but it sounds like people are trying to have it both ways here.  What we currently have is a double-standard, we don't want to hurt the established tradition of certain sports at these schools, but we still want to maintain the spirit of the mission of DIII athletics?  Something's gotta give.

Why does something have to give?

This compromise have been years in the making.  As I understand it, a D-1 Lacrosse player at JHU cannot run tack or play football.  A D1 women's soccer player at Colorado College cannot be a D-III swimmer.

That's great, and that's the way it should be.  Limiting scholarship athletes at those schools to just the team they're on scholarship for makes perfect sense.  Why did it take so long to come to that common sense conclusion?  And now that that arrangement is in place, I see no reason why it can't be extended to other schools wishing to elevate a showcase athletic program to the Division I level with scholarships. 

It didn't take so long. That has been in place for years.

Someone else implied in another post that it took a lot of time and effort to reach that compromise. 

[Knightstalker]

Could it be that JCU rejects PBK, not that PBK rejects JCU?

KS nevers rejects PBR.