UAA 2015

[Mid-Atlantic Fan]

I hate to say this as I tend to favor UAA teams but this league was really down this year. A lot of talk for Brandeis but even they were a bit overrated. Similar to F&M from the Mid-Atlantic region. Disappointing year for the UAA as a whole but I think it will be a much stronger league come this time next season.

[DagarmanSpartan]

Ya know, I just gave this some more thought.

Other than selectivity, one has to also consider the following: what does the soccer prospect in question want to study?

Suppose that a soccer prospect wants to study engineering, business, or nursing?

Several UAA schools offer engineering programs.  In the NESCAC, only Tufts does, to the best of my knowledge.  Of course, there's always the 3/2 engineering program, but that requires an additional year's worth of school..........AND additional tuition/expenses.

Business?  Not aware that any NESCAC school offers it.  Several UAA schools do though.

Nursing?  Not aware that any NESCAC school offers it either.  Certainly CWRU does, and possibly other UAA schools do as well.

So if someone is a high achieving student and a top soccer player looking to compete at the Division III level, AND he/she gets accepted into both a NESCAC school, and a UAA school, he/she might very well choose the UAA school over the NESCAC school simply because of his/her academic interests.  Selectivity and other aspects of academic prestige may not have that much to do with it.

[Part_Bart]

Drawing data from US News and World Report (which draws data from what the Feds mandate be reported), here's SAT as a proxy of selectivity.
This shows the range of SAT scores (using 1600, not 2400, scoring) of the middle 50% of admitted students.
~1300 is top 10% of SAT 1600 distribution,  ~1400 is top 4% of distribution, ~1500 is top 1% of distribution.
The UAA have more professional preparation and large graduate programs.  I think Tufts is the only NESCAC school with a large graduate program (by graduate I mean research).

UAA (in order of 2015 conference standing)
Brandies    1250-1480
CWRU        1270-1470
CMU          1340-1530
WashU       ACT 32-34 (top 2% of distribution)
Chicago     1430-1590
Emory       1280-1460
UofR          1240-1450
NYU           1240-1450

NESCAC (in order of 2015 conference standing)
Amherst     1350-1550
Midd           1260-1470
Tufts          1360-1520
Conn Coll   1250-1410
Bowdoin     1370-1520
Williams     1350-1560
Trinity        1150-1340
Wesleyan   1290-1480
Bates         1280-1430
Hamilton    1320-1470
Colby         1230-1430

[DagarmanSpartan]

Using that data (couldn't do this for Washington U., of course), the average middle 50% SAT range for a NESCAC school is 1291-1470.

For a UAA school, it's 1292-1490.

So it appears the UAA has an advantage in SAT scores, however slight.  Perhaps a statistically insignificant one, but an advantage nevertheless.

I'm guessing that if Washington U.'s SAT scores were figured in, the UAA's advantage in average SAT scores might be even greater.

[Jump4Joy]

With those numbers, you're splitting hairs and not offering statistically significant data.

[DagarmanSpartan]

As I said, the advantage may not be a statistically significant one.  I'll say this though.  Numbers like these suggest that the average UAA soccer player is every bit as academically qualified as the average NESCAC soccer player, if not more so.

I think that this establishes that academic prestige is hardly based on selectivity rates alone.

[Part_Bart]

The College Board has lots of material on using and comparing SAT scores.  MY read of this, being in the college business, is that SAT scores at the edges of the distribution within 30 points (+/-) are equivalent (so a 700 and a 760 are equal, as is a 1540 and 1600); SAT scores in the middle of the distribution within +/- 15 points are equivalent (so 1190 and 1220). The differences in UAA v. NESCAC are non-significant

The best measure of an institution's status (and we're talking about reputational status as all UAA and NESCAC schools are some of the premier institutions in the US, from memory all are in top 30 National Universities or National Liberal Arts colleges) may be comparing admission to acceptance Most are highly selective, so admission rates are often low double digits into single digits.  Acceptance rates are what percentage of admitted students matriculate. Most students admitted to a UAA or NESCAC school have many options, so acceptance rates shows who gets chosen first.

I'd guess that Chicago, Amherst and Williams lead in acceptance rate, but its more informative to get data over a decade (and not the year-to-year reporting that is available via most of the college ranking sites).

[blooter442]

Chicago     1430-1590

Wow. A 1590 75th percentile is extremely impressive for UChicago, and its 25th percentile is 60 points higher than any other school on the list's 25th percentile. Perhaps that partially exemplifies why Chicago is ranked ahead of half of the Ivies: UPenn, Dartmouth, Brown, and Cornell. Obviously, there are a number of ways to spin statistics, but just trying to show how excellent of a school Chicago is.

[Mr.Right]

Also, factoring into these rankings is Endowment and Alumni Giving. I believe Williams and Amherst have the highest endowments of any of these schools. If someone can find a list that would be helpful

[blooter442]

Also, factoring into these rankings is Endowment and Alumni Giving. I believe Williams and Amherst have the highest endowments of any of these schools. If someone can find a list that would be helpful

Actually, there are four UAAs with higher endowments than Williams and Amherst.

Composite list of endowments (2014 dollars):
UChicago - $7.55 billion
WashU - $7.2 billion
Emory - $6.7 billion
NYU - $3.424 billion
Williams - $2.253 billion
Amherst - $2.149 billion
URochester - $2.13 billion
Case Western - $1.759 billion
Carnegie Mellon - $1.6 billion
Tufts - $1.59 billion
Bowdoin - $1.216 billion
Middlebury - $1.082 billion
Brandeis - $861 million
Hamilton - $858.8 million
Wesleyan - $839 million
Colby - $740 million
Trinity (CT) - $542.8 million
Conn. College - $278 million
Bates - $263.8 million

Avg UAA: $3.903 billion
Avg NESCAC: $1.073 billion

Now, part of this more than likely has to do with the fact that UAAs likely have larger alumni bases to draw from. But seriously, who would have guessed that URochester has an endowment larger than Colby, Trinity, Conn. and Bates combined? I certainly wouldn't have.

[Mr.Right]

Yes obviously larger student enrollments to draw from. I am astounded that Conn has a higher endowment than Bates. That is not good.

[Part_Bart]

I believe the per capita endowment of Amherst and Williams is larger than the per capita endowment of all other US institutions.
Per capita means per student (graduate and undergraduate).
Most UAA schools have larger graduate populations than undergraduate populations (and often use some of this to attract great graduate students, not just great undergraduates).
Most UAA schools are two to four times larger than most NESCAC schools.
Most NESCAC schools are primarily (if not completely) undergraduate institutions. 
Per capita endowment is a much better measure of its impact on the institution and generally there is a relationship between per capita endowment and acceptance rate.  This is due to the ability of the high per capita endowment schools to offer more need-based aid to students (there is rarely merit-based aid for UAA or NESCAC students -- their all academically meritorious
MOST of the time, it seems decisions among these options come down to tertiary issues (weather, dorm quality, food choices) or specific interest (free music lessons at Conn College, living in Amherst among the five college consortia that includes two all female colleges, etc). Legacy students make up a sizable minority on each campus.

[DagarmanSpartan]

Pat_Bart,

That "special interest" you mentioned also includes intended MAJOR.

A soccer player interested in majoring in business or nursing sure as heck isn't going to consider a NESCAC school, and one interested in engineering will likely only consider Tufts among NESCAC schools.

By contrast, that aspiring engineering student might apply to several of the UAA schools, the aspiring business student to Wash U., Case, or Carnegie-Mellon, and the aspiring Nursing student to Case.

That "special interest" may be larger than the others.