WBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[HOOPS-STAR]

Odac_hoops:

How dare you question the integrity/character of Coach Tobey!  Do you know her?  The answer is NO.  I was sitting right behind the LC bench on Saturday and specifically heard Coach Tobey tell her players that they needed the ball back and that they needed to foul before the ball got in...she did say, "We don't want to hurt anyone, we never want to do that but we need to put them on the line without time expiring off the clock."  But neither you nor I were in the LC huddle...you are most certainly a Roanoke fan and you're jealous because Coach Tobey has the LC program moving in the right direction, which is more than I can say about the program the previous 6 years...and many LC wins over RC are on the brink!

More and more situations keep arising...like what?   #13 was immediately removed from the game after her elbow...and being at many LC games I know that players are told to win or lose the right way!  What you are neglecting to say is RC's #25, Bridge kicked #13 before the retaliation that was let go, as usual at Roanoke!

If you are going to hide behind this message board and make accusations that are/were not true about the game Saturday, then be man enough to back yourself up!  Get facts before you just talk about what you obviously have no idea about!

One last thing, anyone who watches basketball knows that at the end of the game when you're down by 3 (becuase that is what LC was down by), you foul before the ball gets in...intentionally!  And the refs know that's the strategy, so for them to call it intentional (after not seeing the first few suttle fouls) was their own lack of knowledges of basketball tactics, which was also evident throughout the entire game. 

When RC players were holding and pushing #24 Dahn for LC, no one was complaining...not even you!

The one thing I do agree with you about is that Jordan Gholson is a heck of a player!

[valleybballfan]

Just thought I'd my two sense to the board.....didn't see the game, but poor sportsmanship has been discussed on this board over the years....mainly concerning VWC in the past. Having watched a number of area teams over the past several years (shenandoah valley) I have noticed Roanoke to have a tendency to take a lot of cheap shots and show little class at moments. These observations are, of course, my own opinion and mean nothing. Now, on to Lynchburg.....last year when they played BC there were a couple incidents with Lynchburg throwing cheap shots that got the crowd and bench fired up. I have been to many games where there were cheap shots from just about every team in the ODAC (most famous was the blatant kick from VWC's Dove...that was an amazing one!). I say all of this to make this point....cheap shots happen in every game, and it depends on which side of the gym you are sitting on to determine if it was intentional or inadvertant.....ODAC is a competitive league with passionate players...emotions are bound to get high and plays unfold that to the biased eye seem cheap, but probably are just a lot intensity mixed with emotion. Coach Tobey probably did not want to hurt anyone, Roanoke players probably didn't push and shove to hurt.....they were just all out there trying their hardest to win. Here's hoping for a good rest of the season with plenty of close and physical games!

[hoopstermom]

As I thought...Macon suffered it's first loss of the season...didn't see the game, but a 13-14 halftime score?? thats just not characteristic of odac basketball. The fact that VA Wes controlled the boards 55-38 was the difference in this game...but how exactly does that happen when you have the most dominating center in the game?? seems like Macon got a well deserved wake up call.

The RMC-VWC game was painful to watch.  Both teams shot terribly throughout the game. Macon did not score it's first field goal until almost 9 minutes into the game. VWC reached 14 points with more than 8 minutes to go in the half and did not score anymore after that.   I couldn't believe the half time score was only 14-13.  I think both teams shot 16.7% 1st half and cumulatively less than 23% for the game.  The rebounding was definitely the difference.  VWC was more aggressive going to the boards and make a few crucial 3 pointers late in the game to seal the win.

The interesting thing about this game is that there might as well not have been any refs there.  As much as you don't want officials having an impact on the final outcome of a game, you do expect they are there to insert some control over the game.  There were only 4 fouls (2 against each team) in the 1st half.  It was like watching a playground game with a running clock.  That definitely affected both teams shooting and inside play.

It will be interesting to see how both teams respond during their next games.

[dukeofargyle]

"the W&L loss is crazy, but Randolph always has a tendency to pick up one or two big upset wins a season...if you take them lightly and the coaches don't keep their normal sub rotation (putting in lower players earlier) then you never get in a rhythm."

Rhythm?

Randolph wanted it more- even though no player on that RC team was more than 5'8.  Still- they hustled back in defense every time. My question is-with 3 players 6 feet & over, why was W&L playing RC's game-  guards against small guards instead of taking them out of their game with the post presence that W&L has?

What I saw @ W&L Saturday was:  the Generals with a lax defense, but just as  importantly- with no offense, especially in the second half. NO PLAYS! Even before the whole team was back in position for rebounds, the W&L shooting guards were launching up shot after cold shot from the outside. When outside shots don't fall, what do the guards do? Launch up another brick. Even tho there are 3 big posts players on that bench,  there is no real post game with the Generals. Even the radio announcers mentioned that puzzle again and again.

Sad. Coaches needs to regroup and try something else - not sure what, but whatever is happening now is not working.

[GeneralFan]

White Calyxx, Generalee, and DukeofArgyle...I too was at that Randolph game and I too noticed how the generals were absolutely dominated in the post. For example, the generals, the 15th best team in team rebounding margin in 2006-2007 in all of D3, only had 3 more rebounds than the Wildcats. Average height for the Gennies: 5'10 and for the Wildcats: 5'6. While isn't the deciding factor in rebounding, few would disagree that it isn't important. Additionally, I don't think people should underplay the impressive showing in this game by Michelle Brockman. A double-double, with 9 of 16 shooting from the field and only 1 turnover. She's gonna be a special player for Melissa Wiggins' squad. While a lot of the blame can be focused on the Generals, you must give credit where credit is due: the WildCats.

[GeneralFan]

GeneralLee, DukeofArgyle, and WhiteCaylxx...who are you guys??!?!? It's good to hear that the generals have such a devoted fan base despite the recent struggles...keep up the faith!

[mybleedinghands]

Additionally, I don't think people should underplay the impressive showing in this game by Michelle Brockman. A double-double, with 9 of 16 shooting from the field and only 1 turnover. She's gonna be a special player for Melissa Wiggins' squad.

I agree, she's a big-time player. Brockman is going to be a force!

[dukeofargyle]

White Calyxx, Generalee, and DukeofArgyle...I too was at that Randolph game and I too noticed how the generals were absolutely dominated in the post. For example, the generals, the 15th best team in team rebounding margin in 2006-2007 in all of D3, only had 3 more rebounds than the Wildcats. Average height for the Gennies: 5'10 and for the Wildcats: 5'6. While isn't the deciding factor in rebounding, few would disagree that it isn't important.

General Fan- Thanks, I enjoy the game; I even have a heart for the underdog.

I will agree that Brockman is a special player, good to see that Randolph's recruiting is looking up. Also agree with White Calyxx who said that the Gennies have more talent than they have had for years.

BUT...

It perplexes me why there was 1/3 of this game played with no post against a team with all small guards? There is no doubt that whoever out-rebounds usually wins the game. I checked the stats on this game and the two W & L post players split 26 minutes evenly; Camp had 4 rebounds in 13 mins & Herman had 8 rebounds in 13 mins. Not sure why harper didn't play, but this was a game that would have been great to use a twin towers

Post players have historically had a greater inpact on the game than they do presently in this age of the 3 point outside shot.  The 5 is truly a thankless position for most players, but the demise of the true inside-outside post game has been noted on many sites more comprehensive than this blog.  Unfortunately, this game against Randolph was a prime example of this phenomenon.

Still, I call it a shame.

[whitecaylxx]

Dukeofargyle:  Though they still did not go to the post much last night, you'd have to agree the Generals did a better job.  RMC, on the other hand, didn't show me they were a top 20 team.  They did force 24 W & L turnovers, but missed many uncontested shots.  I thought they would rebound from VWC, but not so much.
Bridgewater did a great job with EMU and almost pulled off the upset.  Also, Roanoke did a fantastic job over E & H - without Hanson.  Anything else?

[dukeofargyle]

whitecaylxx:
Yes; the hustle was certainly there. Great to see Krouchik playing like we have gotten used to seeing her over the past 3 years. Kane remains streaky but when she's hot she's hot- it sure was fun watching her take on R-M singlehandedly in the 2nd half.

R-M was definitely off their game. So many wide open shots didn't fall. I couldnt' believe Arail w/ her 4 for 16 attempts-  but give credit- the Gennies were back playing their defense again. Whew. 

Have to give it to Arial: she has a shooter's mentality. The shots did fall for her toward the end of the game. Her off-shooting night was was weird because her 9 for 9 free throws had to be sweet to watch.

IMO, Hanson being out has given the less acclaimed Roanoke players their time to step up. All props to them for pulling out the win without her- again!

I'll hold judgement on Bridgewater for the moment; as awith W&L last time out, this is a game of momentum & we'll see what happens on Saturday. 

I've been watching the game a few years now, & I think with some tweaking of positions, plays and strategy, there's plenty of talent on this team & the Gennies are now deep enough to have beaten most teams that they've seen so far (with a few exceptions).

They just need to clean up their passing, mix it up - be creative, use their very deep bench of post players & miraculously discover a true post offense, be disciplined about choosing their shots, and most of all:

TAKE CARE of the BALL, LADIES!!!

[generalee]

"I've been watching the game a few years now, & I think with some tweaking of positions, plays and strategy, there's plenty of talent on this team & the Gennies are now deep enough to have beaten most teams that they've seen so far (with a few exceptions)."

Duke of argyle - The talent's been there for a few years - that's what I meant about needing to know what to do with the pieces to complete the puzzle.   W & L's record is a puzzle itself!

[dukeofargyle]

"Duke of argyle - The talent's been there for a few years - that's what I meant about needing to know what to do with the pieces to complete the puzzle."   

generalee-

Though what you state here is surely true enough, this recruiting class was heavier on post players than any other I can remember. Which is what prompted my comments on the nature of the game as it is now played- in the men's or the women's game.

Putting your pieces together is part of the strategy of the game.  Few enough young coaches still see the post as anything but a defensive player in there to outmuscle & kick the ball back out to the guards.

Check this out from d3hoops, written by one of the players at MIT:

http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/2008/01/24/post-play-in-d3

A. Long is a very nice new player as well. She seems to be playing with more confidence every week.  IMO- W & L really needs a talented floor general. (hmmm...excuse the pun!)

Do you think she sees the floor well enough to direct the plays beyond the tired old motion offense?

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

It looks like a two-person race for ODAC Freshman of the Year - a battle of the Jordan's.

Of course Roanoke's Jordan is a center, while Bridgewater's is a guard. So statistically, what each is better at makes sense; RC's Jordan leads in rebounds, blocks, and FG%, with BC's leading everything else.

Jordan Gholson		Jordan Burkholder
Roanoke	School	Bridgewater
13/6	GM Player/Started	14/14
10.8	Points/GM	15.6
6.2	Rebounds/GM	4.4
0.2	Assists/GM	2.2
0.8	Steals/GM	2.9
2.3	Blocks/GM	0.4
48.7	Field Goal %	39.0
00.0	Three Point %	23.9
68.2	Free Throw %	73.9

[hoopstermom]

Weekend results for the women:

Randolph has won 4 straight including a 68-64 win at home over E&H today!! Brockman had 20 and Rechnitzer has 18 for Randolph

VWC runs over Hollins yesterday 82-24, then drops a close one to Roanoke today 50-52

This afternoon Bridgewater holds off a come back by W&L to win 50-49

Also today, Lynchburg over Guilford by 10 points 72-62

RMC squeaks by Roanoke yesterday by 2, then wins today over Hollins 87-26

Roanoke loses a tough one yesterday to RMC 58-60 then hangs on against VWC today after being up by as much as 14 points to win by 2.


Another shuffle on the board.  I figure Randolph moves up to the 8th spot jumping W&L and E&H with their run and VWC and RMC swap 1 and 2.  Bridgewater and Guilford maybe swap spots 6 & 7.

Probably be another shuffle after Tuesday too.  What fun.

[valleybballfan]

kid, I am glad to hear some FOY talk....any early predictions on POY?

I was thinking about the FOY the other day after having watched BC a couple times....and I got to say...I am not sure about Burkholder? She is an impressive scorer without a doubt. However, when I have watched them I think she would benefit as a player and the team would benefit if she looked more for the open man and not so often for her shot. She shoots a lot and has a tendency to turn the ball over (over four a game). Other then that, I think if she smartens up as a player she is going to have an impressive career at BC.