WBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

eaglejacket1421 · February 12, 2009, 11:32:41 AM

"I guess I always just look for the unsung hero award. There are a lot of them out there." - Perhaps they should add that to the list of awards given out at the ODAC banquet. POY, ROY, and COY are reserved for the players that lead their teams to success, statistically and emotionally. I agree that "the unsung hero" award would be a good one to give, but I couldn't give a player like that Player of the Year - the award is too elite.

For Coach of the Year I'd have to vote Coach Dunnigan. Honestly, she really doesn't have any competition for it - I don't know anyone who would have slotted them at #1 when the season began. Plus, she's doing it without Erin Hanson - which as we all remember, they struggled tremendously with last year. The changes and adjustments she made are clearly working and I can't see anyone taking that award away from her.

For Coach King to stand a chance, the Generals are going to have to make a serious run in these last few games. They're sitting at 4th right now, and I will agree - I wouldn't have pegged them there earlier in the year. They travel to Randolph-Macon, host EMU, go to Roanoke, and host Bridgewater. Fairly tough schedule, I give them a L, W, L, L with that Bridgewater game being EXTREMELY close. That's the contest that I wouldn't call the win an upset. I give the W to BC simply because Jean Willi isn't playing around at this point of the year. If they can somehow win three out of those four contests, I'd throw her in the mix for COY. I guess it's really between her and Coach Dunnigan at this point. After taking a look at Roanoke's schedule to finish out the year: go to Emory and Henry, host W&L, and go to EMU. That should be three wins. A much easier schedule than W&L. Odds are this one's going to Coach Dunnigan.

bballmom4 · February 12, 2009, 12:52:55 PM

"unsung hero" award should not take the place of the others. However, I have seen many games that if it weren't for these other defensive and "unsung heros" that these POY and ROY would not have the stats that they do. If you are having an inside game and others are shutting down your outside game and if you have a guard that gets it to the post all day long....well, how do you think that person got to be the "high point scorer" without someone feeding her the ball. That is what I am talking about. So there are many other factors that should be thought about when making these decisions. Its just an observation. But you are correct, an "Unsung Hero" award would be a nice addition to the others.

dukeofargyle · February 12, 2009, 01:54:16 PM

"If you are having an inside game and others are shutting down your outside game and if you have a guard that gets it to the post all day long....well, how do you think that person got to be the "high point scorer" without someone feeding her the ball. That is what I am talking about."

Though I can sure agree with this in theory, bballmom, I have to point out that since the advent of the guard's outside trifecta, I've seen very few coaches nowadays regularly run a true 'post' game. And that's despite the high percentage shot of many post players. At best, most play a balanced inside -outside game.

IMO, it is the "true center" post player who is usually the unsung hero in today's game. It is a thankless job, playing defense, blocking shots, muscling out opponents and rebounding, being double-teamed, fouling and receiving hacks that are often not called. Yet in most teams, she rarely - if ever - is the 'glory' player.

Having said that, I will note that the coach who is the obvious exception to this in the ODAC would be RM Coach LaHaye, who with talent like Ariail - can and does regularly run such a post-oriented offense; thus Ariail's POY's. Your 'unsung hero' in this case may be Hiltunan, who in addition to her 13.8 points per game, also has close to 5 assists per game.

For my money, I'd love to see a "defensive" POY!

bballmom4 · February 12, 2009, 02:03:44 PM

Well, depending on which game you are watching, could be true, dukeofargyle, but there are more teams out there that fit this same motto as your favorite Coach LaHaye. And I also believe that if someone is shutting your outside game down, you have no choice but go to the inside and then work it back out. But there are also more players out there that can compete with Hiltunan in assists and lets add steals to that as well. Some of these so called "high point scorers" have to throw up 30 shots to get 10, well that percentage is terrible, I would think. But we all have our opinions, don't we. Just depends on what game you are watching. And as has been said just recently....defense wins games more times than not. You can make all the shots you want and all the points, but if you cannot play defense....well... you are lacking a lot of contribution to the game and for your other teammates.

dukeofargyle · February 12, 2009, 08:53:16 PM

bballmom, Based on some 30 years of watching & coaching, you can trust me when I say that the women's teams have many fewer 'true' post players than do men's teams, thus the true inside post offensive game is practically non-existent in women's hoops.

I would say that even Ariail is not a 'true center' but a small forward: she shoots an occasional 3 & she is also a player who can & does frequently shoot from outside the paint. Props to LaHaye for the game plan she has formed based on this player's skills. As eaglejacket said: "When she (Molly) sometimes decides to not show up or not play to her full potential for whatever reason, RMC definitely feels the pain."

The women's game is overwhelmingly a guard oriented game.

You said: "I also believe that if someone is shutting your outside game down, you have no choice but go to the inside and then work it back out" – Here you make my point for me when you note that if the outside shots are not falling, then they try to get the ball inside.

I agree with you that defense is always overlooked. You will never see a conference award for this skill alone. Still, at the risk of repeating myself, my motto is "offense may win games, but it is defense that wins championships".

shsfan · February 12, 2009, 09:49:08 PM

Nice to see the ODAC represented in the women's regional rankings released yesterday.

Bammer · February 13, 2009, 09:01:49 AM

Eaglejacket, you have not gotten on the bandwagon. The Generals next 4 games will be tough but I am predicting they come out of it 3-1. Wins against EMU and BC with a win against either RMC or RC. What a fun season it has been following the Generals. The conference games have been so closely contested. It will be fun watching this program continue on and hopefully improve.

eaglejacket1421 · February 13, 2009, 10:24:39 AM

"But there are also more players out there that can compete with Hiltunan in assists and lets add steals to that as well. Some of these so called "high point scorers" have to throw up 30 shots to get 10, well that percentage is terrible, I would think."

Hiltunen is clearly in an echelon of her own. Yes there are players that contend with her in each of those categories, but no one who really hangs with her in ALL of those categories. What she's managed to do is POY-worthy. She rarely takes more than 12 or so shots a game, and is 50% from the field.... AS A GUARD...

I agree with you bballmom, I'm not a fan of top scorers who are Kobe-esque - taking an absurd amount of shots to pad their stats. That type of play is rarely rewarded in the ODAC. But Hiltunen is not that player. Once again - sixth in the league in scoring, second in field goal %, second in assists, second in FT %, 4th in steals, 3rd in 3pt %, 11th in 3pters made, (EVEN THIRTEENTH IN BLOCKED SHOTS!), second in assist/turnover ratio, and 6th in minutes played.

"Eaglejacket, you have not gotten on the bandwagon." - ya caught me Bammer! I tried to be slick about it, but I just find it difficult to vote that they go 3-1 over this 4 game stretch. I would be happy with 2-2 if I was a Gennie fan. RMC and Roanoke are going to be the Goliaths, they'll have a more legit shot with EMU and BC, but even those will be difficult. The RMC showdown is revenge in Ashland (accompanied with Senior Day). I wouldn't want to be the opponent in Crenshaw on a day like that. Plus Roanoke AT Roanoke is never easy. The ball just seems to roll in the Maroons favor over there.

Bammer · February 13, 2009, 11:03:15 AM

Got to agree with you, eaglejacket, Hiltunen would certainly be a fine POY choice. Ariail might knock her out. Look for the Generals to unveil their secret weapon against RMC. I expect a competitive game this Saturday.

eaglejacket1421 · February 13, 2009, 12:02:50 PM

Oh yeah - Molly is probably the favorite. I won't dispute the fact that she is likely the fore-runner and deserves to be. Just had to back up the claim that players compete easier with Hiltunen - I completely disagree with that!

I'm curious about this secret weapon 8) Sounds interesting...

dukeofargyle · February 13, 2009, 03:23:16 PM

Quote from: eaglejacket1421 on February 13, 2009, 12:02:50 PM

I'm curious about this secret weapon 8) Sounds interesting...

MU- hahahahaha!
(Apologies- but could not help myself!)

whitecaylxx · February 14, 2009, 06:41:59 PM

RMC 79 / W&L 70. Bammer - I guess your secret weapon wasn't "pumpt". You indicated on this board that the Generals had never had a more successful season. I have to agree with Ralph Turner when he noted earlier this year that the ODAC is falling back in line with the other "D3 pack". There aren't any Megan Silva's, Marsha Kinder's, Katie Herr's, etc. The top tier teams (RMC, VWC, & Roanoke) wouldn't have suffered their "unusual" losses if there was not more parity in the ODAC this year. In this game - W & L was out-coached by RMC. (Let's not talk about turnovers, either.) My vote for COY goes to Dunnegin.

dukeofargyle · February 14, 2009, 07:26:54 PM

Congrats go out to secret weapon Bolton who equaled Ariail's 22 points: 7-9 field goals and 8-12 free throws, 3 assists and 3 steals. She was literally everywhere on the court.

"In this game - W & L was out-coached by RMC."

caylxx, I got to ask this: with Ariail and Reisbeck both sitting on the bench w/ foul trouble much of the last 10 minutes, and Ingram & Nadeau also running into foul trouble, why didn't Herman (who according to the game notes, leads the ODAC in fg percentage) get more touches on the ball inside? WLUR's announcers must have asked this question 3-4 times during that last run.

In the game Herman was 5-6 vs. Ariail's 9-14 with Hiltunan's 7 assists. - Just makes the point I was saying to bballmom about only LaHaye being savvy enough to take full advantage of her post player's strengths & building her plays according to her talent.

Though the game was much closer than the final score suggests, the L at Crenshaw didn't surprise me, with the Yellowjackets at home and out for revenge. Better there than later.

Young players never learn as much from a win as they do from a loss. The Gennies will just need to make some more adjustments going into postseason.

BTW, best wishes go out to Jen O'Briant. (Sounded like that might have been a ACL pop the way she landed). Hope everyone stays healthy going into postseason.

Bammer · February 16, 2009, 01:49:33 PM

Congrats dukeofargyle for figuring out the secret weapon. Bolton turned in an impressive game even matching Ariail. Not having Ingram in as much hurt the number of touches that Herman gets. How about that charge drawn on Ariail by a guard hlping off. Hope the Generals get another shot at RMC in the ODAC. Now they need to get back in gear and finish this week off in a winning fashion.

generalee · February 16, 2009, 05:27:25 PM

The Generals also need to get back to giving their bench a little confidence. 1 rebound and 1 steal - something's up there. A Team needs to go into tournament time. (p.s. - what does Ingram being in have to do with Herman's touches?)