WBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[gobceagles]

Good win for Bridgewater tonight 80 - 55 over the Marlins of VWC.  The eagles had a team victory tonight!  Four players in double figures and shooting 51% from the floor while holding VWC to 29%!  The Eagles turned up the defense and props go out to the BC guards for handling a very tough marlin press. 

The Eagles head to Randolph College this Saturday where they will square off with a familiar face Head Coach Allison Nichols a former standout at BC. 

[Bammer]

Looks like the BC stock is going up, RMC in sell mode, RC waiting on more results and W&L looks like a blue chip.  All can change quickly and RMC can redeem themselves this Saturday against the Generals. 

[wmjofva]

Last 15 years RMC has ave 20 wins per season; 25 wins in last 5 years.  The 2005 Team went to National Championship game.  Watching that team and the 2006, 2007 teams one would see the ball moved around as they ran the play options two or three times and then make a one on one move or 3 pt shot with 6 sec or less on shot clock.   Recent times "Tuna" (Amanda Hiltunen) their 3 pt shooter averaged about 40% (47-115 in 2008-2009) 50% from the field; Lindsay Riesbeck was 121-263 (46%) from the field.  So one can understand why RMC supporters are puzzled by the low % of the  shooters.

All those players are gone and the present players must learn their strengths and weaknesses.  Who are really good shooters, where they should take their shots and when.

WHEN is important.  Bobby Knight was talking last year on TV about the 3 pt shot and the shot clock.  He is old school, so his view is somewhat different then most of the young coaches of today.   In girls with 30 sec shot clock...he points out taking the shot with 4 or 5 secs off the clock (24 sec) isn't good as you have plenty of time to work the play to get a closer shot, you need to run the play so the defensive players are not in such a good rebounding position and your offensive player may be able to cut thu to get offensive rebound.  You can always get the long range shot (3 pt).  That shot will be there with 10 sec left on the 30 sec clock. ALSO...if you cross the 1/2 line pass to the wing and the player jacks up the long 3 pter, the defense has only played defense for 4-5 sec, then you have to go back down court and play defense for 30 secs...after a few of those, you are really sucking air!  Also their big players weren't exposed to getting fouls because the ball didn't come into the players they are guarding.

Once RMC players make the extra pass, don't hurry their shots, then their stats will go where they should be.  RMC has some very fine shooters on the present team.

[whitecaylxx]

I can't believe no one has commented on Hollins' 4 wins so far!  They must be thrilled.

[2RMCFans]

^ thanks for pointing that out, we're happy for Hollins that they've made a good start.

Jackets picked up a big win last night against the talented Generals.  This team is starting to figure out how to play together to maximize their strengths and weaknesses.

Katie Williams had a great night... well-deserved accolades to her, she just never gives up!

GO JACKETS!!!

[hoopfan112]

What happened to the Generals against RMC?  That point differential was much bigger than anything I expected.  RMC is tough to beat at home so maybe that played into it.  I think W&L will definitely benefit from having Bolton back.  They do not have a lot of depth so having an additional player, much less one the caliber of Bolton, will make them a much stronger team. 

Early on it looks like the team to beat is BC. It appears that BC was a little too strong inside for Randolph yesterday.

Lynchburg loses another close one against Virginia Wesleyan.  Hopefully all of the experience their team is getting in these close games will benefit them down the road. 

[dukeofargyle]

Yes; it was a tough loss. Didn't make the game but streamed it from home.

From what I could make out several factors were in play. Gennies shots just not falling either half- in the 30 % range for both FG & trifectas vs 52% for the Jackets. Big differential in RB's- +11 for the Jackets.  Herman went down on leg that was injured in postseason about 3 minutes into game & played no more after this, so the Generals had no defensive or offensive answer to Jackets young post players for 37 minutes of the game. The Gennies short bench is even shorter in low post with the only center injured and Becca still finishing up her semester at Duke, especially when our many talented backcourt players' shots aren't falling.

True, Crenshaw gym is admittedly a hard place to play.  In checking the boxscore it's interesting to note that each team had 20 TO's and there were almost 40 fouls in the game (pretty equally distributed between the teams). That's an average of 2 referee whistles per minute. Sure can be difficult for either team to enter into a flow in that type of game. Still, all props go to the Jackets, who did a much better job of shooting than the Generals this time around.

Regarding Hollins- this is a great development. Every year brings a new dynamic to the ODAC & it is great to see that Hollins has some new talent coming up. This can only strengthen the conference as a whole. 

[wmjofva]

I enjoyed watching Washington/Lee last year.  They play so hard and really do a good job on offensive rebounding.  You miss Becca Bolton.

If I were a parent of the players playing 30+ mins a game (as so many did last year) I would think the W&L coach was the greatest!!

However if I'm the A/D or longtime fan, I would be concerned, as injury or absence would affect play as it did, AND you only added one freshman after the great season of last year.  What do you do when Bolton & Co depart?

Playing at W/L no doubt has demands that affect who the coach can bring in, but it would appear she could use some help.  She certainly can teach the ones she has.

[jknezek]

W&L is always going to have some issues recruiting, although you'd think it would be easier with small squads like basketball than large squads like football. That being said, I am concerned about the lack of freshman this year. I was hoping to see some carry over from last year into a little more recruiting. Of course, from what I remember about my own recruitment for soccer in the mid 90s, W&L didn't really recruit. Or maybe I just wasn't a priority  .

The fact of the matter is, the way the school works is you get in first, and then the coach is going to worry about whether you can play or not. There isn't going to be a whole lot of help getting a kid in the door because, frankly, the admin really isn't all that interested if you can improve the teams. If you are borderline, then being an athlete helps break a tie with another admin candidate, or provides you with the slightest advantage. But if you don't have the grades/test scores/extra-curriculars/alumni parents  , etc., no coach begging or pleading is going to do you any good.

Now don't get me wrong, I know that's how a lot of D3 schools work and they have excellent athletic programs. So I'm not claiming that W&L is all that different since we actually DO have an excellent athletic program (just not in the major sports most of the time!). But I do feel for the coaches when they see a kid that is a great player, wants to come to W&L, but is outside of the top 10% of their class and only has good SAT scores. Cause that poor coach knows that kid is going to be lining up somewhere else. Of course, I also feel bad when they see the kid who has the whole package and then decides to go try and walk on at Wake or Vandy or Duke and ends up playing intramurals quite happily throughout their college career!

Ah well. Lightning in a bottle last year and we definitely have the pieces to make another run this year. If we stay healthy. Some depth would be wonderful, but I'm just not holding my breath!

[BH2OFan]

My daughter got a letter from a DIII head coach from a very prestigious university  after an AAU tournament her junior year. I called the coach and said that your school was not on our radar, but since you're interested in us do you have any mulligans with the admissions office?  She laughed but hinted that yes, if the grades and SAT's were close that was a conversation she was willing to have with the powers that be.

[dukeofargyle]

W&L is always going to have some issues recruiting, although you'd think it would be easier with small squads like basketball than large squads like football. That being said, I am concerned about the lack of freshman this year. I was hoping to see some carry over from last year into a little more recruiting. Of course, from what I remember about my own recruitment for soccer in the mid 90s, W&L didn't really recruit. Or maybe I just wasn't a priority  .

The fact of the matter is, the way the school works is you get in first, and then the coach is going to worry about whether you can play or not. There isn't going to be a whole lot of help getting a kid in the door because, frankly, the admin really isn't all that interested if you can improve the teams. If you are borderline, then being an athlete helps break a tie with another admin candidate, or provides you with the slightest advantage. But if you don't have the grades/test scores/extra-curriculars/alumni parents  , etc., no coach begging or pleading is going to do you any good.

Now don't get me wrong, I know that's how a lot of D3 schools work and they have excellent athletic programs. So I'm not claiming that W&L is all that different since we actually DO have an excellent athletic program (just not in the major sports most of the time!). But I do feel for the coaches when they see a kid that is a great player, wants to come to W&L, but is outside of the top 10% of their class and only has good SAT scores. Cause that poor coach knows that kid is going to be lining up somewhere else. Of course, I also feel bad when they see the kid who has the whole package and then decides to go try and walk on at Wake or Vandy or Duke and ends up playing intramurals quite happily throughout their college career!

Ah well. Lightning in a bottle last year and we definitely have the pieces to make another run this year. If we stay healthy. Some depth would be wonderful, but I'm just not holding my breath!

jknezek; You are very right.  IMO - The recuiting challenges & difficulties will not change at W&L for the coaches, despite ODAC Championship wins... at W&L- why would coaches spend many hours recruiting even within in the academic top 10% of high school athletes, when even this is in itself is no guarantee of admission?

BH20FAN- You are very right, in some cases! Still -  every D/III school is different regarding admissions. I have been told that the W&L admissions office is quite antagonistic to any idea of coaches coming in to persuade them to accept any athletic recuits at all.  The coaches sweat out the admissions decisions along with the recruits.

I repost below what I said last February as regards the subject of W&L recruiting:
Quote from: whitecaylxx on February 10, 2010, 11:42:36 am
I don't think W & L gets a recruiting pass just because they demand high SAT scores.  More and more females (and males ) are playing AAU and League Ball.  There is a ton of talent out there - plus the players have the added bonus of brains to go with the brawn.  You have to play to your strengths.  I agree, though, that playing a basketball season and maintaining good grades at a school like Washington and Lee would be a definite challenge for any athlete.
Bammer:
Not a pass, just a tougher job than the rest of the league's coaches have to perform.  Lots of talented high schoolers and many current ODAC players could not get into W&L.  Also I do not recall 1 transfer suiting up for the Lady Generals ever.  The availability of transfers has certainly helped out the Maroons this year.  I am not complaining, just pointing out what an outstanding job that Coach King and Coach Pyzik have done and continue to do.  This team is in third by 1 1/2 games late in the season.

-------------------
Bammer, I am going to have to agree with you, despite caylxx's excellent point that so many more students are now playing extracurricular sports. Even so, numbers don't lie. From a strictly mathematical point of view, it's a widely known fact that those students who are presently applying to college in the USA are made up of roughly 60% women and 40% men.

For a college that admits, let's say, an 80% of its applicants (the average of the acceptance rates for 9 of the 11 ODAC colleges), the pool of possible talented athletes is pretty deep, and the recruiting coach can be relatively secure that his/her often highly decorated high school athletic prospect who is a good 3.0-3.5 GPA student will be accepted and come to play in his/her program.

On the other hand, if there is a college which admits only 20% of its applicants, (W&L's approximate acceptance rate) this issue is even more complicated by the fact that the top academic schools in the country can skim off the top academic women to achieve their 50% ratio of women to men.  Which they do.

Do the math. At W&L, which does have a student gender ratio of about 50%/50%, men would then be getting in at a rate of about 25% to the 16% of women who gain acceptance to make up that total average of 20%, because of the higher number of women that apply.  Which leaves the women's coach in schools such as these recruiting the necessarily smallest number of academically qualified athletes.  

The statement that the players "have the added bonus of brains to go with the brawn" is a good one, except that it begs the point of the original post: which is whether or not the W&L coaches have a harder time recruiting and placing 11 very athletically gifted young women on the floor to field every position in basketball or in any in other sport than do the other coaches in the ODAC.  

Further, I agree that Coaches King and Pyzik have done an exceptional job with this team.

[jknezek]

My daughter got a letter from a DIII head coach from a very prestigious university  after an AAU tournament her junior year. I called the coach and said that your school was not on our radar, but since you're interested in us do you have any mulligans with the admissions office?  She laughed but hinted that yes, if the grades and SAT's were close that was a conversation she was willing to have with the powers that be.

Why wouldn't the coach tell you that? She said if you have grades and SATs then sure. That's about right. Tie goes to the kid with the best extra-curriculars (or the one that rounds out a needed geographic or ethnic subgroup). By telling you to go ahead, you might apply. If she tells you she has no pull, you probably won't bother. From the coach's point of view, she has nothing to lose and everything to gain. One thing I did learn from going to a small school like W&L is that if you can't hack it, it will quickly become apparent. There is no place to hide, no large classes, no standardized tests, no mulligans from professors. Add in NCAA athletics and if you are borderline for that school, it can get challenging in a hurry. On the other hand, some kids do better when faced with the biggest possible mountain...

[Brookland]

An interesting discussion, but at the end of the day recruiting is a difficult job for any DIII coach. Sure, some schools have admissions and financial aid departments that work a little harder for athletes, while others think it an affront to their "purity of mission" to do so, but the coach still has to identify and "land" the talent he or she needs. And even DIII has plenty of recruits who were "all-this" ands "all-that" in high school but just can't cut it at the college level. Sometimes the stumbling block is athletic, sometimes it's sports IQ, sometimes it's academics. Then add the challenge that even the ODAC coach with the easiest admissions criteria and the most generous financial aid office has a tougher recruiting job than your typical DI and DII coach. So, my hat is off to all of the coaches who are able to identify, recruit and develop enough talent to win.
That said, I agree that it is tougher to recruit from the smaller pool of academically-qualified players that can make it into the more demanding schools like W&L, but it's hard to feel sorry for them - they clearly know how to succeed! And isn't that what makes DIII special? As I tell folks, it's the last refuge of the true student-athlete, the player who plays for the love of the game. DI athletes often describe their experience as a "job." How many of our ODAC athletes would say that? They are students first, no matter the school. I think they and their coaches all deserve our respect.

[BH2OFan]

Alright, time to start stumping for some top 25 votes for Bridgewater. Check my logic: Looked at three teams in the "others receiving votes" category- Mary Washington (9), Baldwin-Wallace (8), and Calvin (2). I chose these as the top three single digit vote getters. UMW is 4-2, average margin of victory 12 points, combined record of teams they beat 7-15. Baldwin-Wallace- 5-1, 13.5, 11-22. Calvin- 5-2, 23, 11-21. Bridgewater 5-0, 22.4, 9-23. Pretty similar. Now I'm sure there is a set of three other teams in this group that has beaten better opponents by more points that invalidates this argument, but I'm just sayin....
Frankly I don't think they will have an opportunity to be recognized until after the New Year based on the schedule (Averett next week, who is 4-0 with a win over EMU, then a holiday tournament) but first up in January is Roanoke followed by Hollins and W&L back to back. We'll know what the Eagles are all about after that stretch.

[Brookland]

BH2OFan,
Have you been following the Top 25 Discussion thread on the Multi-Regional Topics site? That's where you can make your case... although none of it is likely to sway the actual voters...
I would love to see an ODAC team in the Top 25, but unfortunately I agree that won't happen until after the New Year - and more probably not until someone makes it past the first round of the NCAA Tournament. Just look at W&L - won the Conference  and went to the Tournament last year, then returned all five starters and beat a ranked team (UMW) to start the season - but didn't even get a mention in the preseason or since!
Let's face it, those who vote in the poll believe that the ODAC is a weak conference and only consider RMC and Roanoke as possible candidates based on their long records of success. Anyone else probably needs to be undefeated in mid-January to get consideration. In the mean time, we fans just have to be satisfied with enjoying the games.