WBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[wmjofva]

Looking at the archives....2005-2006 (her 3rd year) 5 freshmen..14 players...then 2006-2007  2 freshmen..11 players;  2007-2008  4 freshen ..11 players; 2008-2009 3 freshmen 11 players..; 2009-2010 4 freshmen..11 players (went to NCAA)

Sometimes one might do better with fewer players....EMU has taken in 10 or so freshmen this year and last..and has always had 14-16 on their rooster.  Perhaps the coach doesn't want to deal with what those numbers present in issues....playing time etc.

I rather have 8 good ones than 16 ok ones. 

[jknezek]

Looking at the archives....2005-2006 (her 3rd year) 5 freshmen..14 players...then 2006-2007  2 freshmen..11 players;  2007-2008  4 freshen ..11 players; 2008-2009 3 freshmen 11 players..; 2009-2010 4 freshmen..11 players (went to NCAA)

Sometimes one might do better with fewer players....EMU has taken in 10 or so freshmen this year and last..and has always had 14-16 on their rooster.  Perhaps the coach doesn't want to deal with what those numbers present in issues....playing time etc.

I rather have 8 good ones than 16 ok ones. 

No doubt the team has always been a little light. From your numbers above, 11 players seems to be about the norm, 3-5 FYs. That's what I was angling for. Gives you a few backups, a few players to learn and grow, and room for some dropouts. I have no issue with this at all (although, as I said before, I have heard nothing but good things about Coach King and have no issue with her at all anyway!).

However, the last two years are a problem, especially with 4 seniors and 3 juniors, out of 9 players. Good upperclass leadership for this year, really bad for next year and beyond. I don't see a real reason why a D3 bball program needs 15-20 players, but I do see why one should have 10-15 players. With "8 good ones" you have no flexibility if someone gets hurt. If you lose 2 players, you have 1 substitute. Its not unheard of to have 1 or 2 players injured or, like last year, 1 player broadening her horizons at another school to start the season (again, not something I have an issue with as school comes first, just something that requires more bodies on the bench to account for).

With 9 players, 7 upperclassmen, the cupboard looks empty for next year when you will be playing FY recruits. With one more bad year (less than 4 recruits), you won't have enough players on the team in 2013/14 to play a full schedule. Looking at your numbers, there was only 1 year with 2 FYs. Coach King is now going on 2 years IN A ROW with 2 or fewer.

Regardless of personal opinion (and like I said, what little I know my personal opinion of Coach King is that she is excellent), that is a very, very bad 2 year outcome.

[Bammer]

I believe the low number of incoming players at W&L was caused by the turnover in the assistant coaching position.  Coach King has had improving numbers of wins and seems to produced a solid program.  Really like the new assistant coach and I know they had a high number of recruits on campus this fall.  The program is in good hands.

[jknezek]

Excellent. I'm very glad to hear there is a good reason. Hopefully the carousel will stabilize and the program will continue on the current upward trend. It has been a real pleasure to see both basketball teams improving over the last couple years.

Thanks for the info!

[hoopsfan55]

While you all make very good points about the number of players at Washington and Lee, I have to disagree about the influence of the turnover in assistant coaches on the number of incoming players.  While assistant coaches obviously play a role in the recruiting process, a recruit is not choosing a school because of the assistant coach.  I think Coach King has many other obstacles that play a more significant role in bringing in players than the assistant coach situation.  It is not fair to compare her recruiting classes to those at EMU or really any other school in the ODAC.  The admissions standards at Washington and Lee are much higher than any other ODAC school.  It is also my understanding that coaches at Washington and Lee have no impact on admissions.  While other schools often allow coaches to have a "list" or "tips" for certain recruits, I do not believe that is the case at W&L.  Thus, Coach King is having to recruit students who are capable players and can meet the stringent admission standards.  She is most likely competing for recruits with Ivy league schools and other strong academic programs like those schools in the UAA and NESCAC, two of the traditionally strong DIII conferences.  I too have heard good things about Coach King but I suspect her challenges in recruiting will not end anytime soon.  Should she continue to bring in such small recruiting classes does anyone think she might pursue a position at another school where recruiting does not pose such a challenge?   

[jknezek]

The challenges, and benefits, of coaching at W&L are long established. They've been the same since the early 90s at least, and will continue, hopefully, well out into the future. Coach King has been at W&L dealing with the challenges, and benefits, of recruiting and coaching the caliber of student W&L requires for the last 9 years. While its not out of the realm of possibility she will decide to leave or someone will lure her away, it seems like she has settled in for a good run.

If you look at the W&L staff across sports, the head coaches tend to be very stable. That implies that there is something special about what happens in Lexington, and how W&L treats its people, even given the specific challenge.

Major team sports:
Stickley (baseball): 26 seasons
Hutchinson (MBBall): 9 seasons
Miriello (football): 17 seasons as head coach, much longer as an assistant
McCabe (MLax): 6 seasons
Piranian (MSoccer): 36 seasons
Diamond (WLax): 5 seasons
Orrison (FH): 11 seasons (since program inception)
Cunningham (WSoccer): 11 seasons
Snyder (Vball): 12 seasons

Individual Sports:
Tucker (M-XC): 23 seasons
Shinofield (M-Swim): 9 seasons
Detwiler (MTennis): 12 seasons
Shearer (MWrestling): first season following Gary Franke, retired after 38 seasons
Hoey (W-XC/Track): 8 seasons/9 seasons respectively
Gardner (WSwim): 5 seasons
Ishida (WTennis): 5 seasons

New Coaches:
Gyscek (M/W Golf) 1 season
Uhl (M Track) 1 season

Jan Hathorn, the AD, is a true W&L icon. She was the women's lax and soccer coach for 15-20 years in each sport before taking over and, in my opinion, has done an excellent job as the AD. She knows what kind of coach is needed in Lexington and isn't interested in people looking to use the Generals as a "stepping-stone" to a bigger position. I don't think she would ever settle for mediocrity, but she does understand the challenges and benefits of coaching at W&L having been one for so long herself. While she hasn't had too many hires (she became AD in '07 I believe, so from the list above those with 6 seasons or less roughly), she has held onto the coaches and W&L has suffered no drop off in the athletic department. The sheer number of ODAC President's Cups will point to that.

Lexington is a unique place and Coach King seems to have found a home there. I know W&L often struggles to hold on to young, unmarried professors as Lexington offers little for them. However, for the professor or coach looking to settle down and raise a family or settle down after raising a family at a school with excellent students, resources, and reputation, in a beautiful but quiet part of the world, W&L has an excellent track record of holding on to its best people academically and in athletics.

[Bammer]

W&L is a great school for the right student.  I still think losing Coach Pyzik hurt recruiting.  You need Coach King and an experienced assistant to be out recruiting.  The job is too much for just the head coach.  I know that my daughter has enjoyed W&L and her experience of being on the basketball team.  I know that athletes are not given any special help in the admission process at W&L.  Now all that being said, I believe that come ODAC tournament time, the Generals will be in the mix for the conference championship.  The senior class wants another championship to go with their other one during their sophomore year.

[flightless bird fan]

Looks like Coach Griffin has the Lady Royals in good shape for the season.  Here is a link to the story about EMU-RC game
http://emuroyals.com/sports/wbkb/2011-12/releases/20111130xvsgxe

[hoopsfan55]

I agree that W&L is a great school and the longevity of their coaches is very impressive.  Clearly it is a great institution to be a part of with the sense of community, a strong administration, and the resources available. 

With regards to the recruiting discussion, I am sure that Coach King is no stranger to the challenges of finding recruits who are capable of playing at the high level required in her program, and who are strong enough academically to be admitted to the University.  As stated, she has been doing this for 9 years.  But I suspect the challenges have increased dramatically over the last couple of years with the establishment of the Johnson Scholarships.  The first class of Johnson Scholars was in 2008-2009 (current seniors) and the drop in recruiting has occurred since then.  As stated by the admissions office, "In the four years since the Johnson Program was announced, we have seen dramatic increases in the number of prospective students who request that their standardized test scores be sent to us and to Ivy League schools and other prestigious institutions.  For example, we have had a 50 percent increase in the number of score reports sent to us and to Harvard, and a 61 percent increase with Stanford."  There is no question that this increase in strong applicants is going to significantly impact the academic profile required for athletes, thus posing a greater challenge than earlier in Coach King's career.  With that said, I think it is fantastic that W&L is becoming a stronger academic institution and continuing to build on an already impressive reputation.

Also, I do not think that losing Coach Pyzik can be used as an excuse for the drop in incoming recruits.  With Coach Pyzik on staff during the 2009-2010 season, she helped recruit the incoming class for 2010-2011... one player, who is no longer on the team.  I am not trying to speak negatively of Coach Pyzik.  I have great respect for her and I believe she is going to be extremely successful at Lynchburg.  I simply want to make the point that I don't think the assistant coaching changes are impacting recruiting.   I think Coach King has battles in recruiting that are much greater than changes in coaching personnel. 

Aside from these other discussion topics, I am very excited to see how W&L does this season.  They have a very talented team, despite the low numbers, and I think they will be very competitive in the ODAC as long as they stay out of foul trouble in games.  They have great senior leadership and several players who can provide significant scoring.  The one thing I was curious to see this season is how Ingram would transition to being the primary ballhandler.  I have yet to see the team play this year, but her numbers have been a little lower than I anticipated.  I am sure there will be a bit of a transition period for her moving to more of a point guard role, but I suspect that she will soon regain her scoring production of the past couple of seasons.  Has anyone seen W&L play yet this season and have any thoughts on their performance thus far? 

[jknezek]

hoopsfan 55 -- I'm not sure I agree with your assertion about Coach Pyzik leaving, or that it is harder to recruit now than before since I'm not seeing any kind of drop off in W&L's other sports. Basketball, with only a few players needed, is necessarily a very hands on recruiting process, and the loss, or distraction, of an assistant coach is brutal to the process.

However, I certainly don't know for sure and you could be absolutely correct. Either way, that was a great post and it deserved +K! Thanks for the great analysis.

I have yet to see a game as my wife is currently 36 weeks pregnant with twins and I'm busting hump around the house with all the other chores, but I'm sure I'll catch one over the computer sooner or later. Birmingham is just too far of a drive from Lex for me to get up there in person this year!

[hoopsfan55]

jknezek - Congratulations on the twins!  I am sure you and your wife are excited about those additions to the family.  Also, you do make good points and I guess it is just difficult to know the extent of all these different factors on the small recruiting classes without having the insider information.  Interesting discussion nonetheless. 

Some exciting games in the ODAC today.  Great win by W&L against RMC.  I suspect the dramatic increase in offensive production by Ingram significantly impacted that outcome.  Also a surprisingly close game between E&H and Roanoke - despite the final score, the game was tied with about 5 minutes left.  Is anyone else surprised by the susceptibility of the traditional power houses so far this season?  I cannot remember the last time Roanoke started a season 0-4 and Randolph Macon 2-4. 

Early on EMU and Virginia Wesleyan seem to be the front runners in the conference.  How good Virginia Wesleyan is still remains to be seen as they have yet to face some of the tougher conference teams.  However, EMU has had some impressive early conference wins over Roanoke, RMC, and Bridgewater.  It will be fun to see Va Wes and EMU face off in a week. 

Two teams that are usually bottom-dwellers have had solid starts to their seasons as well - E&H and Hollins both seem to be more competitive than in years past.  It will be exciting to see if they are able to pull off some upsets this season. 

[Bammer]

Excellent point hoopsfan55 about the Johnson Scholarships.  Really good feeling beating RMC this Saturday.  The Generals will be a force come tournament time and I suspect RMC will also.  Go Generals

[wmjofva]

Dec. 7  Hollins  63  Washington & Lee  56  Final    Wow!!!

[Ralph Turner]

Dec. 7  Hollins  63  Washington & Lee  56  Final    Wow!!!

Sign of the Endtimes!

[jknezek]

Just a forgettable day for W&L athletics. Blown out in men's bball and a tough to swallow loss in women's bball. Oh well. Hopefully they will get stronger as the season goes on. It seems to be a pattern for the team the last few years.