WBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

kid, I am glad to hear some FOY talk....any early predictions on POY?

This is a tough one. I think it's down to four players, but who has the edge, who knows...

-Molly Ariail (R-MC)
-Brittany Dahn (LC)
-Heather Phillips (VWC)
-Carolyn Riley (EMU)

Of that group, I've only seen Dahn and Riley play this season. But I remember Ariail and Phillips from last year. As far as what I saw in a game (or games) against Bridgewater, I'd give the nod to Riley. I felt like she made the players around her better. Even though she could if she wanted, she doesn't have to score a lot to help her team win.

I was thinking about the FOY the other day after having watched BC a couple times....and I got to say...I am not sure about Burkholder? She is an impressive scorer without a doubt. However, when I have watched them I think she would benefit as a player and the team would benefit if she looked more for the open man and not so often for her shot. She shoots a lot and has a tendency to turn the ball over (over four a game). Other then that, I think if she smartens up as a player she is going to have an impressive career at BC.

Remember, we're talking about freshman of the year. She is still less than one year removed from playing high school basketball. As I mentioned before, Burkholder was put in a situation where BC lost five of their top seven scorers from last season, not to mention 95% of their three-point field goals made. As one of the better scorers on the team, she has had to jump right in and shoot a lot. Also keep in mine she's fourth in the conference in getting to the free throw line - so she's not just jacking up a lot of bad shots. She's taking it to the hole. The three players who get to the charity stripe more? LC's Dahn, VWC's Phillips, and EMU's Riley. Three of the four POY candidates.

It's also worth noting that when Katy Herr Lovell (from BC) won Freshman of the Year in 2003-04, she shot 38.3 from the field. Burkholder's shooting only slightly better (39.0%), but I don't think that will keep her to winning the award (if she deserves it come the end of the season).

As far as the turnovers, I agree, averaging four a game is a bit much (and that may lead the conference). But again comparing her to the four POY candidates, she's not that far from them;

-Riley - 3.2 TO a game
-Dahn - 2.9 TO a game
-Ariail - 2.6 TO a game
-Phillips - 2.5 TO a game

And, of course, Burkholder is the only first year player of that group.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Burkholder is one of 11 underclassmen the Eagles have on their roster, with only one senior. She is a tough and aggressive player (5.3 free throw attempts a game), who isn't afraid of taking the big shot. She also has fantastic court vision, and she has shown plenty of times this year that she is more willing to pass it than shoot it (probably why her TO/gm is so high). She still has time to grow up.

[generalee]

dukeofarglye - In response to your:

"A. Long is a very nice new player as well. She seems to be playing with more confidence every week.  IMO- W & L really needs a talented floor general. (hmmm...excuse the pun!)

Do you think she sees the floor well enough to direct the plays beyond the tired old motion offense?"



It's hard to continue to comment without sounding negative.  Bridgewater was a big win for the Eagles.  The Generals did make a great comeback, but they never should have been in that place to begin with.  Very seasoned athletes against "newbies."  It seems like Willi has them on the upswing.
As for the Long player, how do you go from averaging 28 minutes a game to 21 in the last two?  Seems like a confidence killer.  Tell her to keep her head up - the inexplicable wind will shift again...

[RELEE.Blvd]

Lets get to the "Burglary at Bridgewater".

When has any serious or semi-serious sports fan seen a ref decide a game with 2 seconds to go? I have been coaching for over 20 years and never have i seen a ref determine the outcome of a game with less than 5 seconds to go.

The first thing they tell you when you're in any officiating course is NEVER, NEVER, NEVER be seen as deciding the out come of a game by calling a foul or penalty in the last 5 seconds, unless the foul was so flagrant a lead pipe was involved.

The ref should have swallowed his whistle and let the teams decide in OT who should have won. Instead you have an incredibly dissapointed W&L team that staged a great come back. You have Bridgewater that even though it will not say differently maybe knows in the back of their mind a little home town cooking is better than a diet. Finally you have a heart broken player who by the thinnest of margins might and I do say "MIGHT" have fouled the BC player anguished over letting her team down.

The reality of the situation is the ref let W&L down, Bridgewater down, the W&L player down and arguably he let his own integrity down.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

Lets get to the "Burglary at Bridgewater".

When has any serious or semi-serious sports fan seen a ref decide a game with 2 seconds to go? I have been coaching for over 20 years and never have i seen a ref determine the outcome of a game with less than 5 seconds to go.

The first thing they tell you when you're in any officiating course is NEVER, NEVER, NEVER be seen as deciding the out come of a game by calling a foul or penalty in the last 5 seconds, unless the foul was so flagrant a lead pipe was involved.

The ref should have swallowed his whistle and let the teams decide in OT who should have won. Instead you have an incredibly dissapointed W&L team that staged a great come back. You have Bridgewater that even though it will not say differently maybe knows in the back of their mind a little home town cooking is better than a diet. Finally you have a heart broken player who by the thinnest of margins might and I do say "MIGHT" have fouled the BC player anguished over letting her team down.

The reality of the situation is the ref let W&L down, Bridgewater down, the W&L player down and arguably he let his own integrity down.

A foul is a foul is a foul. It was pretty obvious.

This probably wasn't your first basketball game, so you know that refs have and can make mistakes. But so can players.

I felt bad for the W&L player who committed it. All I could do was watch her after she fouled (well, hacked) our player. She had a "uh oh" look on her face while the free throws were being attempted. She didn't look mad at the ref, she looked like she felt bad she put her team in that position.

I will say that had it not been for that W&L player - the one who committed the foul - then the Generals wouldn't have even had a chance at the win towards the end. When the game looked out of reach with under four minutes to go (down by nine points), she scored the next four to make it a five-point game with two minutes left. For a guard to finish with nine rebounds, you can't knock her effort.

[whitecaylxx]

Burglary in Bridgewater??  Let me say I do wish the game had gone into overtime -  then there would be no "what ifs."  The Generals turned it on at the end and possibly they could have come away with a win.  But to blame it on the officials for home cooking - what home cooking?  It's not like the refs were hired by Bridgewater.  They were ODAC refs which are sometimes good and sometimes pretty bad.  The big picture is W & L had 25 turnovers and several missed shots.  Number 20 did not lose that game for the Generals, and neither did the refs.  Regroup and get the next game!

[RELEE.Blvd]

No you can't knock her effort, I think she is a feisty guard and always hustles with a lot of talent to boot.
I was informed though that your observation of her guilty look was a bit off base since the player in question and her team still feel cheated.

I did check with two senior basketball refs in the Washington Catholic Athletic Conference which is thought of as the best high school athletic league in the country and here were their replies.

1st ref. You don't decide a game in the last 5 seconds unless the foul was hard, flagrant or impeded a chance to win for the team with the ball.

2nd ref. I'm glad it wasn't me.

So it seems we'll have to agree to disagree and hopefully meet for a third time with a less controversial out come.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

No you can't knock her effort, I think she is a feisty guard and always hustles with a lot of talent to boot.
I was informed though that your observation of her guilty look was a bit off base since the player in question and her team still feel cheated.

I did check with two senior basketball refs in the Washington Catholic Athletic Conference which is thought of as the best high school athletic league in the country and here were their replies.

1st ref. You don't decide a game in the last 5 seconds unless the foul was hard, flagrant or impeded a chance to win for the team with the ball.

2nd ref. I'm glad it wasn't me.

So it seems we'll have to agree to disagree and hopefully meet for a third time with a less controversial out come.

I never said W&L coaches, players, and fans wouldn't be (or shouldn't be) disappointed. If that happened to Bridgewater, I would be too.

I did say, however, that it was a painfully obvious foul, and that her look after she committed it was one of guilt, not "oh my gosh, I can't believe you think I fouled her."

I'm disappointed that your ref sources think the call shouldn't have been made. When there's under five seconds to go, with a game tied, and one team is dribbling down the court to get off a shot (and BC's Timberlake would have probably gotten off a decent three-pointer), and the opponent illegally keeps her from advancing the ball (not only that, but hacks her), then I'm sorry - that should be called. Regardless if there's five minutes remaining or five seconds.

Look, your team was on the short end of this stick. Of course you'll take the approach of "highway robbery." And I'm sure had BC lost that way, I would be on here complaining about how it ended. But our emotions would get in the way of reality, and we would both be wrong.

[mybleedinghands]

so W&L had a 39:58 of 40 possible minutes before the foul to win the game and lost. I guess it's the refs fault that they turned the ball over 25 times, only shot 30.4%, and only made three three pointers while getting gangster slapped eight times by Rebecca Henderson - all four of which were apparently major factors that explain why W&L put their selves in the position they were in at the end of the game...

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

As for tonight's Bridgewater/R-MC game...

Clearly the Jackets are favored, even on the road; ranked No. 19 ... 14-1 record ... reigning ODAC champs. So, IMO, here are the keys if the Eagles are to make this a game...

1) Keep R-MC off the offensive glass. In two of their four closest games (loss to VWC, the two wins against RC, and the win over Marymount), the Jackets finished with less than nine offensive boards. 

2) Hold R-MC to sub-.400 from the field. In the four abovementioned games, the Jackets shot only 33.5 from the floor. In the other 11 games, they made 45.8 of their field goals.

3) Force the R-MC guards into turnovers. Merkel, Shifflett, and Hiltunen have turned it over a combined average of 8.8 times in the aforementioned games. In the other 11, they turned it over only 5.5 times a game.

I think the fact that R-MC has started the same five girls for all 15 games has been a key in their success. Also, five of their six top players (minutes wise) are upperclassmen, with three of them being seniors. On the other hand, Bridgewater has started eight different people, while six of their top nine players are underclassmen - four of which are freshmen.

So while R-MC has some promising youth (Ariail, Stein, and O'Briant), it's mostly experience leading the way for the Jackets. Bridgewater has made huge strides this year with their young players, while the coaches try to find which groups work best together. BC has gone 6-2 since starting the season 2-5.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

so W&L had a 39:58 of 40 possible minutes before the foul to win the game and lost. I guess it's the refs fault that they turned the ball over 25 times, only shot 30.4%, and only made three three pointers while getting gangster slapped eight times by Rebecca Henderson - all four of which were apparently major factors that explain why W&L put their selves in the position they were in at the end of the game...

Good point, but Bridgewater didn't play much better (19 turnovers and 35% shooting from the floor).

I think where RELEE.blvd and I disagree is how a ref should call a game. I'm of the opinion that they should call it the same for all 40 minutes. He/she is of the opinion that they should swallow their whistles on a last second play.

It stinks for the team who gets a call made against them, but it stinks even more for a team NOT to get a call made for them.

[bbald eagle]

In the national championship game last year, a Washington U  player tried a 3 to tie it for with a few seconds left; she was smashed across her arm from the side; the ball didn't go anywhere near the basket. It was probably the clearest foul of the game, but there was no call. Game over. I didn't hear a word of griping from Washington U or its coach. She should have been on the line for three and a chance to tie. What excitement and pressure that would have been.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

In the national championship game last year, a Washington U  player tried a 3 to tie it for with a few seconds left; she was smashed across her arm from the side; the ball didn't go anywhere near the basket. It was probably the clearest foul of the game, but there was no call. Game over. I didn't hear a word of griping from Washington U or its coach. She should have been on the line for three and a chance to tie. What excitement and pressure that would have been.

That's very unfortunate.

[dukeofargyle]

"It was probably the clearest foul of the game, but there was no call. Game over. I didn't hear a word of griping from Washington U or its coach. She should have been on the line for three and a chance to tie. What excitement and pressure that would have been. "

In ref to this line of posts, my philosophy is whether the reffing was good, bad or overzealous for whatever reason, it all has happened to each team and it sure will happen to your team at some point if it has not yet happened.

-Heartbreaker of a situation for any player or team to be in, but I think it all washes in the end.

Hopefully much has been learned from this season so far....second half should be somewhat easier. We'll see.

[generalee]

There is no doubt that the General's season should be easier from here on out.  The road is a lot less tough.  What that says about the strength of the team - isn't much.  The important thing is to go forward.  Go Generals.

[generalee]

That didn't sound very positive, and I didn't mean that.  Trounce Guilford!