MBB: Liberty League

[rjcarter8]

When I said Hamilton had a law admissions office, I meant lax. It is a good school with top tier academics, but the admissions office is very relaxed with its standards when it comes to athletes, especially basketball. There are students that get into Hamilton that couldn't get in other places, because they play basketball. Not saying it doesn't happen at other schools, but Hamilton is able to use its academic reputation to entice players to come, then gets players whose academics don't quite match the rest of the student body.

[woot]

yeh, welcome to the world of college basketball. vassar has a stronger academic reputation though than hamilton and still fails to get good players. just something to think about

[rjcarter8]

My point was that Hamilton accepts a number of athletes who don't meet the academic standards the other students who attend the college have to meet. I also know this goes on at most places, but standards are lowered quite a lot at Hamilton.

I also know there are a number of Division III schools that, while they cannot give out scholarships, do give out financial aid to athletes that may not necessarily qualify for it.

[woot]

you could be right, i wouldnt rule anything out. i wouldnt be surprised if shady things occurred behind the scences.

[thumbsup]

wow, for a coach who is 14-3, I have never seen such bashing.  And I love this admissions thing.  Murphy never communicated with those people.  HA, why do you think they forced him out.  Interesting angles on here.  I don't know how well Coach Anderson will do at Hamilton, but how many posters on here are Hamilton grads/ex-players.  By the way, this guy Anderson who can't coach, check out his record at Clarkson.  Then compare it to any coach who was there previously.  I believe he had them in the conference tourn. a few times, not to mention some ECAC appearences.  But I forget, he can't coach.  I also love the "this guy is a snake" comment.  Has anyone on here been at his practices, been recruiting with him, or do we have coaches on here who have lost players to him at Clarkson or Hamilton.  Then we proclaim Bob Montana as coach of the decade and list John Q and the RPI guy as solid basketball men.  WOW, I will give ya Montana, nice team, 1 NCAA appearence.  But the other two, nice career records there.  I don't know about his subbing patterns and all that, I guess we will have to wait and see the results at the end, but to claim he is a snake after taking over for Murphy and all of this other junk is flat out FUNNY.  I understand people sticking up for their old coach, just like Bobby Knight type situations, but to take it out on the next guy, who by all accounts has a pretty good career record as a head guy just does not make sense.  BTW, what does is wife being nice have to do with any of this.  Interesting tidbit there as well.

[met_fan]

I don't know how you can bring admissions into this.  Do you work in Hamilton's admissions office?  How you can judge the difference in basketball player admits and non-basketball admits accurately, especially when compared to other schools, I have no idea.  I think, even though they don't compete in NESCAC for basketball, Hamilton still adheres to their athlete admission policies.  How that compares to other Liberty League schools, I have no idea, but I doubt that it results in some huge discrepency that allows Hamilton to field vastly more talented teams with comparativley low GPAs.

[rjcarter8]

First of all, I never said Murphy didn't have the same "perks" that Anderson has. He also got some nice assists from the admissions and financial aid offices. I also am not sure about Quatrochi and Griffin among the tops in the league anymore. Skidmore has been near the bottom of the league the last few years, and RPI is hit or miss. I think they both have good career records, but not too much lately. And if you look at their website, Union has two NCAA tournament appearances since the 2001-02 season.

[thumbsup]

I stand corrected on the Union appearances.  My point was, and you mentioned it, is that I don't believe the new staff isn't getting anything the old staff didn't.  Division III sports are full of these situations, and basically it is up to the school to decide how good they want there programs to be, especially when it comes to financial aid.  And I think it would be safe to assume, that when coach Anderson was at Clarkson, he probably didn't get much help but had that team competitive every year.  Coach Montana has done a great job at Union and always fields competitive teams.  But I will say this, if I am trying to rebuild a program, coach Anderson appears to be a good way to go, especially in respect to the job he did at Clarkson.

[bed]

Just to clarify guys...........

I wasn't saying Coach Q and Coach Griffin were amazing coaches.  Someone was asking about coaches in the league so I said that far and away Montana is the best coach in the league.  He has proved that year in and year out making the NCAA and ECAC more than a few times in his tenure at Union.

Coach Q and Coach Griffin are solid veteran coaches who do the best with what they can get at their programs and make the best of what they've got.  RPI and Skidmore don't make basketball their top priority so it's a lot harder for those coaches to be powerhouses year in and year out.   They have earned the respect of their fellow coaches (their peers) about their knowledge of the game and their coaching ability.  Sometimes one's record is not the be all and end all.
I also said that Coach Downs has proven to be a pretty decent coach up at St. Lawrence.  I'd put him right behind Montana right now in best coaches in the league.

Again--------I know some are higher on Coach Anderson than I am, but as I said in an earlier post (i think yesterday).........go easy on his coaching ability and don't draw too much from his record this season.  First, a lot of the star players on the team were recruited by Murphy and still have a better relationship with Murphy than they do with their current coach.  They all want to win, but they don't want to win for Anderson.

Additionally, as I was saying in a prior post and I say again here, Hamilton lost to the best teams they've played this season:  Williams and Utica College.  They also lost to Hobart.  Who did they beat?  Not really anyone that good.  14-3 is a great record, but I would respect Anderson more had he beaten Utica or Williams..........or even beaten Hobart on Hamilton's home court.

Let's see Hamilton win some tough conference games on the road, let's see them win the Liberty League tourney and let's see them beat a team with a winning record that is a good team from a good conference and then I'll give Coach Anderson more respect.

[rjcarter8]

Actually, Clarkson and St. Lawrence are similar to Hamilton in their acceptance of players.

[shooters]

Thank god there are others on this posting that have a little less salt in their blood. Ok if we are going on the Murphy players crap then the reason they were 15-12 last year is because of Murphy guys too. Can't have it both ways. Actually with that fact pattern then it would seem that the less Murphy guys on the team (last to this) the better the record. Now I'm not gonna sit here and tell you TK and Giorgi aren't legit, they are vital parts of team, no question. (Ray Ray and Mandela aren't currently on the team either). I agree with  the posting that Hamilton hasn't really beaten anyone solid, I mean outside of knocking off the only undefeated team in the league, but yes they lost to Williams, Utica, and Hobart. Utica they were playing w/o four of their players, including two starters, and i have no explanation for the Hobart game. All I can say is lets see what happens tonite at Hobart. As for coaching I didn't want to have to respond to the crazy post regarding Coach Q and Griffin and thank god someone else caught it before i had to respond. And w/ coach Anderson and Clarkson, lets give Coach Anderson not one but two all-americans at Hamilton and see if Clarkson can come into Hamilton's gym and beat them. I believe that is exactly what happened against Coach Murphy in the not so distant past. I would take that challenge further by marking on the calendar the next time Clarkson goes 17-8 (or whatever their record was that year) or perhaps just a winning record. I think it will be a lot further away (if ever) than you think.

I do applaud the last several posts, however, regarding admissions and athletics. Very true stuff coming from all angles. Best was "welcome to college basketball" because this priority to athletes has been going on since the beginning of time and there is no better way to raise money from boosters and alums than by having competitive athletic teams.

Lets see the outcomes tonite from our top four coaches, Montana, Downs, Q, Griffin.

[rjcarter8]

Thumbsup,
I'm not clear on how Anderson rebuilt the Clarkson program, but there is no disputing his record there. For Hamilton, though, he brought his top two players with him from Clarkson, boosting Hamilton's program and depleting Clarkson's. As for the average record for Hamilton last year, there was a lot of friction between the new order and old guard. That seems to have worked itself out somewhat this season, and Hamilton's record is better.

[shooters]

rjcarter,

Agreed that Anderson cherry picked his top two guys from Clarkson, so very unfair to compare the two teams at this point, and i would agree the friction has wore itself off, no pun intended, I think it will be interesting to see what happens next year as welchons and valenti, both right now playing excellent ball, leave the program. I think that will be the point when Anderson and the Hamilton program truly develops on its own. My question is that someone said Hamilton is beating who they should be right now, I'm not going to quote this but if memory serves me correct they were picked third preseason in the conference, that would mean then they are beating teams they shouldn't be. If and if is all im shooting for, they win the conference, the conference tourney, and head to the NCAAs then I think they might have overachieved just a touch don't you think? Just a thought. Other interesting games tonite for the LL?

[thumbsup]

RJ, Clarkson has an awful history in Basketball.  I believe Anderson is the only coach in the history of the program with a career record there over .500.  Anyone who can get that program competitive is doing a great job.  I agree with the rest of your points.  Basketball is a great game.  Everyone has their own styles, offenses etc.  Their is no one way to get it done, and most coaches obviously believe their way is the best.  Bottom line in D3, coaching isn't the determining factor in having a great program.  Its all recruiting, lots of good coaches can't get players either because of admissions or financial aid.  So the haves may not be the best coaches, but the best recruiters and vice-versa.

[UCAAHoops21]

Interesting takes all the way around on UCAA oh..i mean Liberty League coaches.  My take is that Montana is probably the best x's & o's guy in the league.  I guess something has to be said for guys like Coach Q and Mike Griffin at Skidmore and RPI for longevity and RPI seems to be getting better as the year goes on.  whatever your take on Anderson is, I certainly have some thoughts, he is the leader of the pack right now...his guys or not.  I think it will be interesting to see what happens with Hobart, they seem to be all over the place-beating Union and Hamilton, but losing to Skidmore.  Can Wojtylko shed the interm label or does anyone know what could happen there?  SLU is young and good for Downs, which could mean long trips for LL tourney the next couple of years.  Vassar seems to be that spoiler team that could catch somebody sleeping...Don't know much about Dutton, anyone have anything about him?  Clarkson seems like the struggles will continue.  Tough to see a guy like Coach Q struggle at Skidmore...RPI has a lot of seniors, it looks like they have a chance if they can win some home games down the stretch.
I think it will be fun to watch...I think it shakes out with Hamilton, SLU, Union and RPI getting the top four...anyways, I enjoy reading everyone's thoughts as we get closer to the end...