MBB: Liberty League

[rjcarter8]

Hamilton beats Hobart 66-63
Union beats Skidmore 98-62

No surprises in the wins, though it appears Union may have made some shots tonight. Don't think that game tells us much about the coaching. Meanwhile, Hamilton winning by three tells me there was more coaching involved.

How's that for a John Madden analysis.

Seriously though, Union made like 15 threes against Skidmore, while Hamilton was led by Peck and Giorgi with 14 points each, and TK had 13 points and 10 boards.

[unionalum]

As a recent grad and former player of Coach Montana, I can tell you there is no superior x's and o's in the league.  His preparation and attention to detail I would argue are up there with any coach in the country.  He recruits the type of players that fit into his system.

Also, as to Coach Andersen, I have heard from very reliable sources (former players of his), that he does have snake like tendencies.  He maniupulates players and is overall not the most approachable of people.  I am trying to be careful with my words, out of respect to the success he has had.

He has great talent, and seems to be putting it together this year.  I saw them play at Union this year, and they were the superior team.  However, Union seems to peak later on, as we saw last year, when they won the conference as the #4 seed... so only time will tell!

[rjcarter8]

Unionalum,

I too have heard similar things about Hamilton's coach, but I digress.

Any predictions for this weekend's games?

[unionalum]

Union will beat Hobart (Union after hitting 15 3's on Tuesday will keep it going)
Union will lose to Hamilton (however, they will beat them when they play for a 3rd time)

To be honest with you, living in Boston now I have only been able to see Union, Hamilton and Hobart play live, so it is difficult for me to make predictions with confidence.

I expect St. Lawerence to win both at home, but I usually am a fan of the ruggedness of RPI teams I have seen in the past, which makes them always prime for an upset.

Hobart, will rebound with a win over Skidmore on Saturday.

I really don't know much about Clarkson.

Hamilton- Skidmore is a hospital game.

To clarify what I was getting at before with Anderson... just an example, he will use an assistant to find out about a player's off the court activity, and then use that against him.

Now I digress as well.

[shooters]

I know this about the Hamilton coach, he doesn't put up with a lot of off the court behavior. I can recall when his D2 transfer and star point guard got caught drinking the night before the conference tourney and he threw him off the team, and could have played him w/o anyone knowing about the situation. I believe he kicked the off guard off as well the next week (D2 transfer as well). I also know he has kicked I believe 4 players off the Hamilton teams in his two years there for conduct unbecoming to an athletic program (just made that name up). That might make some sense why there is this bitterness toward him, because perhaps some of the voices being heard are those who got kicked off. I can tell you it is the complete opposite of the way the program was ran prior. Everyone always liked the substitute teacher who let you do whatever you wanted more. You know I would love to see a post from a player who actually played for Anderson (of course anyone could post claiming that) and hear what he would have to say. I saw that Hamilton shot 20 some shots more than Hobart did last nite, and I read a piece regarding "coaching" must have been the reason for a close game, well players got to hit a few shots too. Look at the stats before you make general statements. Now back to the LL I truly think any team is capable of beating another in this league at any given time. Makes this season that much more interesting.

[unionalum]

I like when coach's have that type of disciplinary nature.  I think that translates onto the court with careless turnovers and defensive rebounding.

I was always impressed with how programs like Williams and Rochester never seemed to beat themselves.

However, in the college arena, it is a fine line between how to discipline college athletes and how to let them live as college students.  These guys are between 18-22, away from home for the first time, and are suppose to "let loose" at times.

This is not an easy distinction to make by any means.

[A Friend]

Ok although i'm new to the site its time to break it on down. Does anyone know Dave Paulson? He is the coach of Williams, took them to a national championship, runner up a year after that. Anderson was the top assistant for Dave at LeMoyne. Now I'm not in a love fest w/ Anderson like "shooters" i mean the two must have dated in college or something is all i can figure out. But I don't think a guy like Paulson is going to have this Anderson character around his program if any of the above posts are true. Someone objective should read the postings one by one and listen to how it sounds. It sounds like a bunch of upset kids who didn't make the cut on the kickball team and are upset because the team is doing well without them. He is 15-3 for gods sake, the rest of the league is barely over .500, if I was a fan of any other program in the LL I'd be spreading rumors too. The best thing for you Union/Vassar/Hobart/Skidmore/RPI/SLU/Clarkson fans to do is get this guy out of your league. If i'm the opposing coaches i wouldn't like this young guy (saw on profile he is in early 30s) and wouldn't respect him either. He's taking your recruits, taunting you with them, and then beating you. Actually the best thing that might happen and solve all your issues is if he backs up this year w/ another solid year and heads out of the league. Then Hamilton can get a guy like the guy they really wanted who last i checked is 6-12 or their second choice who hasn't been over .500 in his career. -the coaches i got from someone who posted earlier i just looked up the records. I am going to look into this Hamilton squad further but I'm a Williams guy and seems like he instills the winning formula in his coaching staffs.

[rjcarter8]

Shooters,

Believe it or not, I wasn't taking a shot at Anderson in my post when I talked about coaching. I actually was trying to send a compliment his way.

Let me explain: When there is a game decided by three points, there usually have to be some good coaching moves made to get the W. I didn't check the box score, only read the recap, and didn't attend the game, but I was actually giving Tobin some kudos.

As for the Union-Skidmore game, which I didn't attend or read the box score on either, just the recap, it was a 36-point difference. Not much coaching has to be done when the score gets rolling like that.

I understand you taking me to task for assuming an outcome without doing the in-depth analysis you did. But I think it's only fair for me to take you to task for assuming I was slamming Anderson's abilities because I wrote that I'd heard bad things said about him.

[thumbsup]

Friend,

Great take.  That's the general idea I was trying to convey earlier.  I can also attest to the way coach Anderson runs his program.  It is his way or the highway.  Just like Knight, Williams, Paulson,etc.  Very reputable student athletes as well.  Great kids, just like the other programs I am sure.  I also remember that incident when he had to kid the kid off for that team violation.  Think Bobby Huggins or coaches of the like would have stuck to their guns.  Just a thought.

[woot]

union alum is exactly right about anderson. trust me i know

[UCAAHoops21]

It looks to be a big weekend for establishing who may come out of the LL this year.  Union goes out for Hobart and Hamilton this weekend...Hobart stole one from U early...Tough weekend for the Dutchmen...RPI goes north for St. Lawrence and Clarkson.  With Hamilton and SLU out in front, Hobart, Union and RPI have a lot to play for this weekend and these games could shake up the log jam in the middle.

As for coaches, to each their own on the thoughts, obviously every coach has his positives and negatives...I am sure if we look at each program we could find something about each coach.  We'll see who puts quality players and x's & o's together over the next couple of weeks to go to the tournament...

[shooters]

Well put UCAA man, and sorry rjcarter if i ripped you prematurely. I guess i read into it wrong. Good work A Friend, isn't that name off a movie?, but i like your thoughts on the coaching and the league, i didn't know Anderson was a Paulson guy, makes that much more sense. I agree w/ UCAA in this should be an exciting weekend for the LL. I truly believe anyone is capable of losing at ANY time and that goes for my Hamilton squad as well. I think Union will give them a run this weekend and as stated the other three teams have a lot riding on the weekend. I have a feeling SLU has at least one more defeat left (outside Hamilton) I predict they drop one this weekend. Lets sit back and enjoy, I wish i could listen to some of these games or at least get an online play by play. Guess thats what i get for being a DIII fan.

[bed]

The league is definately competitive.  It is extremely down this year though.  A lot of poor/mediocre teams in the league.  So a few guys are right---anyone can be beaten at any time.

Hamilton has BY FAR more talent than any other team in the league.  They should easily coast to the league title and win the LL tourney and head to the NCAA's.   There arent many players in the entire LL that could crack Hamilton's starting 5----maybe a handful.

As much as I dislike Tobin Anderson and his coaching, he's got a hell of team and I think anything less than a LL title and 1 or 2 wins in the NCAA tourney would be disappointing for the Continentals.

I never count out Union, b/c as I said earlier Montana is the best coach in the LL and is a good big-time coach---you know Bob will be prepared and have scouted thoroughly and his guys will come to play.

But outside of Union, I don't see anyone beating Hamilton this postseason.  Hobart could be a sleeper, but they are not a big time team in the postseason.

It says here, Hamilton will go places IN SPITE of Tobin Anderson.

[unionalum]

I agree that Hamilton has the most overall talent, but to say whether there are players in the league who would start for them is overboard.

Cagianello is probably the Player of the Year in the conference, and is threatening Union's alltime scoring record.

Scordato not only scored 34 on Hamilton in last year's Liberty League title game but has won Liberty league guard of the week 2 of the last 3 weeks.

Point guard Murphy has led the conference in assist to turnover ratio every single season so far, and now as a senior he has a chance to do it for a 4th time.

So let's not go crazy, and be blinded by Hamilton's "on paper" talent

[shooters]

I agree Hamilton has a lot of talent, but lets calm down about a few things. First of all I'll take Feane as my point any day over Welchons, especially as of lately. I would take Avitable, and as unionalum says I'll take Cagianello as well.

I can see where bed is going with this and that is now that Hamilton is playing well in order to trash the program some more we are setting expectations just a touch higher, i mean 2 victories in the NCAA or they underachieved? Let me remind you this is a team that was 15-12 last year and outside of a few outstanding freshmen Anderson recruited (Wood) are the same team. They were picked preseason third in the league so lets not just go out there and say if they don't breeze through the season, the LL tournament and two victories in the NCAA they were disappointing. I do agree w/ bed in the fact that the LL is a subpar conference but in some respect makes it that much more enjoyable.