MBB: Liberty League

[buck1053]

Have to concur with UCAA again, ROY honors to Hamilton's Patrick Sullivan.  Major contributor as a freshman.  Averages 12 pts/26min.  LL Rookie of the Week 5 times.

While Sullivan is a good candidate for Rookie of the Year, I'd like to also throw Matt Pebole and Garrett Sharlow's names into the mix.

Here are their stats (ranked in order of how I see them stacking up):

Garrett Sharlow (St. Lawrence) 11.6 ppg (3rd on team), .468 fg, .383 3fg, 6.6 rpg (2nd on team) — 3 ROW awards

Patrick Sullivan (Hamilton) 12.3 ppg (2nd on team), .529 fg%, .417 3fg%, 5.1 rpg (2nd on team) — 4 ROW awards

Matt Pebole (Hobart) 10.9 ppg (2nd on team), .498 fg, .378 3fg, 4.9 rpg (2nd on team) — 3 ROW awards

I think I'd be more inclined to go with Sharlow with this, due to the fact he's the third leading scorer on a team that features its top six in double figures in scoring. Plus, he's put up his stats while playing in 24 games (starting only one) at an average of 20.9 minutes a game. Sullivan, meanwhile, is one of three Hamilton players in double figures, starting 20 of 20 games played at an average of 26.4 minutes a game.

[FLYZ5]

Buck....I really can't disagree with you.  Sharlow is definitely a great choice for ROY.  He was my 2nd pick and it was VERY close.
Also, forgot to mention that Coach Downs' Saints have consistently been ranked 2nd in the NCAA regional rankings right behind Ithaca.

[buck1053]

Buck....I really can't disagree with you.  Sharlow is definitely a great choice for ROY.  He was my 2nd pick and it was VERY close.
Also, forgot to mention that Coach Downs' Saints have consistently been ranked 2nd in the NCAA regional rankings right behind Ithaca.

That's one of the reasons why I gave him the edge. He's doing it on a team that is at the top of the region, just behind the 24-1 Ithaca Bombers.

[buck1053]

POY honors go to SLU's student-athlete Tom Wopperer-6 times LL Guard of the Week & 2nd in League scoring with 16.5.  Plays under control with limited fouls.  Certainly a consummate team player who has been significant in leading his team to a 19-5 record, 1st place and home court advantage for the upcoming playoffs. Also, a member of the 2008-09 LL All-Academic Team.

While I don't think there should be any question about Downs getting Coach of the Year, I'm going to throw a couple other names into the conversation for Player of the Year.

Below are the players I think should be discussed for POY. The statistics are from conference play only, with their league ranking in parentheses. I also noted how many player of the week awards they have won this season.

Tom Wopperer (StL)
15.4 ppg (3), 2.57 apg (10), 6 Guard of the Week awards

Drew Desmarais (Union)
19.5 ppg (1), 6.9 rpg (6), 60.9 FG% (1), 2.62 apg (9), 5 Forward of the Week awards

Sam Simmons (RPI)
19 ppg (2), 7.8 rpg (3), 60 FG% (2), 6 Forward of the Week awards

My pick would be Simmons, followed by Wopperer and Desmarais.

Not only did Simmons win 6 Forward of the Week awards, but he also ranked second in points per game and field goal percentage and was third in rebounds per game. In addition, only one other RPI player earned a player of the week award (Tim Rupp was Guard of the Week once). RPI finished third in the league and I don't think that happens if Simmons isn't around.

While I think Desmarais's league play would put him ahead of Wopperer, the fact that St. Lawrence is first in the league gives Wopperer the edge. Union didn't make the playoffs, moving Desmarais down my list to third.

[with age came?]

Good discussion.  I would agree that Downs has the inside track on COY.   Personally I am partial to Simmons for POY.  The man is the entire show at RPI whereas Wopperer has a lot more help with the Sharlow's, Parham  Williams etc.   I suspect like last year a great multitude of St Law players will get honored but won't get POY.  I was very wrong last year on ROY I thought Estep was better than teamate Llewellyn so my eye for talent might be suspect, but I found Sullivan to be the best rookie, Sharlow a close second. Another POY canidate has to be Harlee Wood at Hamilton but again he would be 3rd or fourth in my opinion.

[FLYZ5]

Ironically, it is exactly what with age and buck have said that makes me believe that Wopperer should be POY.
If you base your decision solely on statistics, then the choice would be mindless fodder with the obvious choice not always the BEST choice.  There are many intangibles that should be considered and it certainly depends on what criteria you value in a POY.  In my humble opinion, it is MUCH harder  to obtain impressive stats on a team with a deep bench and 7 players averaging in double figures than on a team where only 2 players average in double digits.
If you are the focal point, the go to guy or the "entire show", then it stands to reason, is inevitable & almost guaranteed that you will probably end up with pretty good stats by season's end.  NOT to take anything away from Mr. Simmons-he is a GREAT player (albeit foul trouble) on a mediocre team.  Conversely, Mr. Wopperer shouldn't be penalized for being a great player on a great team with no one superstar.
As captain of his team, Wopperer has been a dedicated leader, always involving the rest of his teammates.  He is only part of the show, not the "entire show", which, logically, would make it harder to excel.
I guess I am a DIII basketball purist and may come to this discussion from a different vantage point.  Honestly, I am a bit wary of a program with a "one man show" and have to question how that happens, especially at the DIII level (although, fortunately, you don't see it very often).
BOTH players are definitely deserving....the edge goes to SLU's Tom Wopperer.

[buck1053]

I guess I am a DIII basketball purist and may come to this discussion from a different vantage point.  Honestly, I am a bit wary of a program with a "one man show" and have to question how that happens, especially at the DIII level (although, fortunately, you don't see it very often).

You think Wopperer, I think Simmons -- I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I was curious about this statement, though, and not quite sure why you'd be "wary of a program with a one man show." I think it probably happens more often than people realize, but it's generally with teams that aren't very good, not ones that are in the conference playoffs. I also think it probably happens more at the DIII level than DII or DI.

[with age came?]

Flyz5- Truly an interesting point about "not being the only man".  I guess I always envisioned a POY as being someone who a team had to have to do damage (ie: Kobe or LeBron) rather than an excellent player on a well rounded team (ie: Prince on Detriot).  I think we would all agree that without Simmons RPI is not in the playoffs.  He gets double and triple teamed sometimes and he still puts up great numbers. At St Lawrence even if you took Wopperer out of the equation I think that they are DEFINITELY a playoff team and still a contender.  So I guess one has to look at the fact that since St Law is so deep and Wopperer puts up very good numbers as a plus but also the fact that because of their depth you can not concentrate on him soley because the rest of the team will kill you.  It is a 2 edged sword.  All that being said I am sure sure that Wopperer is right where he wants to be (a definite 1st team Allstar) on the best team. And possibly POY too! See Buck has posted oo in response.

[buck1053]

The LL Awards have been handed out; here's the info from the LL site.

2009 Liberty League Player of the Year -- Sam Simmons, Rensselaer Senior Forward
Simmons was the Liberty League leader in both scoring and rebounding, and also led his team in blocks, steals, minutes per game, field goal percentage, offensive rebounds and defensive rebounds. He was the team's leading scorer in 15 games and leading rebounder in 14. He had 10 or more points 21 times this season and 20 or more 13 times. He was a six-time selection as Liberty League Forward of the Week.


2009 Liberty League Rookie of the Year -- Patrick Sullivan, Hamilton Forward
A four-time Liberty League Rookie of the Week selection, Sullivan ranked fourth in the league in field goal percentage and 11th in overall scoring. He ranked second for Hamilton in both scoring and rebounding and was the top scorer for the Continentals six times, including four of the last six games of the season.


2009 Liberty League Coaching Staff of the Year -- Chris Downs   St. Lawrence
Downs guided the St. Lawrence to its second straight Liberty League regular season title with a 19-5 overall record and a 12-2 conference mark. The Saints led the league in scoring offense, scoring margin, and rebounding margin. He is assisted by Sean Kelly and Mark Bickelhaupt.


2009 Liberty League First Team
F Drew Desmarais -- Union (SR) *
G Josh Sharlow -- St. Lawrence (JR)
F Sam Simmons -- Rensselaer (SR) *
F Harlee Wood -- Hamilton (SR)
G Tom Wopperer -- St. Lawrence (SR) *
* Unanimous Selection

2009 Liberty League Second Team
G Rob Estep -- Hobart (SO)
G Brandon Linton -- Clarkson (JR)
F Matt Nunn -- Vassar (SR)
G Jay Simpson -- Hamilton (JR)
F Richard Williams -- St. Lawrence (SR)

Honorable Mention
George Koduah F (Clarkson), Joey Lokitis G (Union), Steve Madej G (Union), Patrick Sullivan F (Hamilton)

I can agree with the choices (I had advocated for Simmons for POY), but I did think Garrett Sharlow would have merited a HM selection.

Thoughts?

[FLYZ5]

Thanks very much for the info buck.  You and with age were spot on with your POY pick!
Congrats to all the worthy student athletes.  VERY happy to see Coach Downs, Sean Kelly & Mark Bickelhaupt receive COY honors.  Well deserved!!!
Looking forward to an exciting  (& COLD) weekend of basketball.   Can't wait!

[buck1053]

You and with age were spot on with your POY pick!

Well, you got the ROY correct. I think the fact that Simmons, Wopperer and Desmarais were all unanimous first team picks means that we were on the right track with all of our picks.

[buck1053]

No. 3 RPI beats No. 2 Hamilton, 64-55 tonight. Does this hurt Hamilton's at large bid at all?

[magicman]

St Lawrence defeats Clarkson 88-64 . Pool C bid for Hamilton might have gotten a little shaky with a semifinal loss instead of loss in the championship. Pool C hopefuls don't want to see RPI winning tomorrow afternoon against SLU.

Richard Williams leads the Saints with 25 pts and 9 rebounds.Tom Wopperer has 19 pts 4 assists and 3 steals, while Bela Vonnak added 14 pts and 7 boards.
Brian Salanger with 14 pts and Ryan Smith with 11 topped Clarkson

[Pat Coleman]

Does this hurt Hamilton's at large bid at all?

Yes.

[buck1053]

While RPI was able to hold off Hamilton, I don't think they have enough firepower to top St. Lawrence today. And, Hamilton's loss in the semifinals means the LL will likely only get one team into the NCAA tourney.