MBB: Liberty League

stlawus · December 10, 2019, 10:03:15 PM

You make good points, I know the turnovers are really hurting them, but these threes just drive me nuts, especially when I look at the box scores of our opponents in their next games when they shoot at or below 20% from three (yes the zone will inflate numbers but still). It is indeed a young team, and I say it every game that I am still reserving full judgment until the full team is available. Karera would be extremely useful out on the wing defending the 3, and Hoffman will be able to alter a lot more shots in the center of the zone. Jeffrey has played well, but Hoffman is a tree with a very long wingspan. I also think Karera is the only one actually injured, I'm starting to think the other 3 players are suspended for the first semester.

UfanBill · December 10, 2019, 11:16:53 PM

Union apparently stayed on the bus early against Hobart. The Dutchmen fell behind right from the tap and shot a dismal 15/55, 27.3%

for the game in losing 75-53. The only possible positive...Mike Concannon returned to the line-up.

UfanBill · December 30, 2019, 03:51:55 PM

Union went south, Daytona Beach 12/28,29, for games against Lycoming and Mt. Union and poor shooting again was the biggest problem. Against Lycoming the Dutchmen shot only 26%, 18/69 and a dismal 19.4%,6/31 from behind the arc in a 64-54 loss.
The next day they shot better, 40.4%, but still not good enough in a 78-65 loss to Mt. Union. A home game against always strong Williams is next before getting into the LL schedule. Since shooting is the supposed strength of this team there must be improvement for the Dutchmen to contend for a LL post season spot.

stlawus · December 30, 2019, 07:20:38 PM

Quote from: UfanBill on December 30, 2019, 03:51:55 PM
Union went south, Daytona Beach 12/28,29, for games against Lycoming and Mt. Union and poor shooting again was the biggest problem. Against Lycoming the Dutchmen shot only 26%, 18/69 and a dismal 19.4%,6/31 from behind the arc in a 64-54 loss.
The next day they shot better, 40.4%, but still not good enough in a 78-65 loss to Mt. Union. A home game against always strong Williams is next before getting into the LL schedule. Since shooting is the supposed strength of this team there must be improvement for the Dutchmen to contend for a LL post season spot.

How convenient Union goes cold in all of the games following their shooting performance against SLU

In all seriousness Union should still be fine as far as league play goes.

stlawus · January 04, 2020, 06:36:46 PM

Ithaca gets bailed out by 3 point shooting to win a close game against a fairly weak Moravian.

Hobart is clear and away the top team right now. We'll really know where they stand after playing Ursinus today, who took the #1 team right down the wire last month.

jmcozenlaw · January 06, 2020, 09:36:26 AM

Quote from: stlawus on January 04, 2020, 06:36:46 PM
Ithaca gets bailed out by 3 point shooting to win a close game against a fairly weak Moravian.

Hobart is clear and away the top team right now. We'll really know where they stand after playing Ursinus today, who took the #1 team right down the wire last month.

Thompson goes off for 36 against a much bigger and far more athletic Montclair State team. Dagg!!!!!!!

stlawus · January 06, 2020, 08:43:52 PM

In the only LL action of the night SLU beats Elmira 74-71 on the road. Closed out the final 10 minutes with a 23-7 run. Very nice game from Chris Jeffrey. Key block late in the game and a huge offensive rebound on a missed FT that led to a layup. Hicks shoots poorly but still ends up with 16/11/7.

Oline89 · January 08, 2020, 09:47:48 AM

LL BBall fans, I have way more knowledge of the D3 football world than roundball, can someone help me out on why so little love shown to LL teams in the national poll? Hobart 9-1, 3-0 with win over Rochester, received only 10 total votes?

stlawus · January 08, 2020, 10:49:57 AM

Rochester is not ranked, and the rest of the teams play in conferences much stronger than the LL. The CCIW, WIAC, NESCAC etc all have more quality teams and also play equally or harder OOC schedules. Hobart is the top LL team but it is only comparable to the 3rd or 4th best team in the NESCAC.

thebear · January 08, 2020, 10:53:34 AM

Hobart should be ranked by all objective criteria.

In the two computer rankings they are 15th http://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/p/division-iii-mens-basketball-efficiency.html#predictions, and 21st https://www.masseyratings.com/cb/ncaa-d3/ratings

I think their SID needs to do a bit more to get the word on to the voters.

Their only loss is a 1 pointer at #60 Brockport, who the current favorite in the SUNYAC.

Pat Coleman · January 08, 2020, 11:02:49 AM

Quote from: thebear on January 08, 2020, 10:53:34 AM
I think their SID needs to do a bit more to get the word on to the voters.

In all honesty, this has basically no impact on voters. The resume speaks for itself. Give it time and if the present trend continues, I'm sure voters will pick up on it. They are at least getting noticed.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh · January 08, 2020, 02:16:48 PM

Hobart's resume is more than a win over Rochester and what "computer ratings" say.

They also have a loss to Brockport. As a voter, I guess I should vote for Brockport before Hobart ... but then I need to consider Rochester ... and then ... forget it, I give up. (FYI - I voted for Rochester because of their result against Swarthmore and Hobart's result v Rochester was 11/26 ... a lot has changed since then. I do have Hobart on my radar, as Pat knows full well.)

Also, the schedule isn't all that compared to a lot of teams in the Top 25.

NYU (6-4) - nothing to gain here
Brockport (7-2) - loss as mentioned
Baldwin Wallace (7-4) - under-performing unfortunately
Rochester (9-2) - good win for Hobart
SJF (5-6) - not helping
Skidmore (3-7) - really not helping
Bard (0-9) - conference game that hurts
Union (5-3) - not telling anyone much
Ursinus (7-4) - could be a good win, but need to see more from Bears
Catholic (4-8) - first year head coach with a program that has faltered of late

53-49 overall opponent's record ... that's just okay. Not sure why the computers love them (other than data from last year, D1 games that can't be eliminated, etc.).

Again, I have Hobart on my radar, but I decided to wait to see how they do against RIT, Ithaca, and RPI first. Conference won't help them a ton, but those games will help voters understand what Hobart really is as a program.

And Pat is right ... SIDs "lobbying" for their teams isn't exactly the best way to tackle it. I know Hobart's SID pretty well and he wouldn't do that anyway (and the list is private as well except for those of us who reveal our ballots). However, when an SID lobbies me for their team ... I take it with a grain of salt. If they lobby too often, it can actually be a deterrent personally.

d3d3d3 · January 09, 2020, 01:29:33 PM

The league just isn't great this year, something all of us have been saying from the start. All of the best players graduated or transferred. And even when the league is "great," it usually means one or two teams slide into the poll in the 18-25 range. Here are the recent results of the LL teams in the NCAA Tournament:

2019: Skidmore lost to MIT first round
2018: Union beat NJCU, lost to Plattsburgh second round
2017: Union beat Wesleyan, lost to Rochester second round
Skidmore beat NJCU, lost to Babson second round
SLU lost to St. John Fisher first round
2016: Skidmore beat F&M, lost to Tufts second round
2015: Skidmore beat Wesleyan, lost to Johns Hopkins second round
2014: Hobart beat Scranton, lost to Morrisville State second round
2013: Hobart lost to RIC first round

This may help explain why, at 9-1, the computers like Hobart but the voters not so much.

stlawus · January 09, 2020, 06:38:17 PM

I think SLU in 2009 is the last LL sweet 16 appearance.

jmcozenlaw · January 10, 2020, 10:03:28 AM

Quote from: d3d3d3 on January 09, 2020, 01:29:33 PM
The league just isn't great this year, something all of us have been saying from the start. All of the best players graduated or transferred. And even when the league is "great," it usually means one or two teams slide into the poll in the 18-25 range. Here are the recent results of the LL teams in the NCAA Tournament:

2019: Skidmore lost to MIT first round
2018: Union beat NJCU, lost to Plattsburgh second round
2017: Union beat Wesleyan, lost to Rochester second round
Skidmore beat NJCU, lost to Babson second round
SLU lost to St. John Fisher first round
2016: Skidmore beat F&M, lost to Tufts second round
2015: Skidmore beat Wesleyan, lost to Johns Hopkins second round
2014: Hobart beat Scranton, lost to Morrisville State second round
2013: Hobart lost to RIC first round

This may help explain why, at 9-1, the computers like Hobart but the voters not so much.

I thought that Thompson (36 against Montclair State a few days ago) was still at Ithaca....................and not graduated or transferred