MBB: Liberty League

[rjcarter8]

Did UR indeed decline an ECAC bid, or is it similar to a case like Hamilton last year where they couldn't play in the ECAC's because they are NESCAC members?

[bed]

Shooters:

I wanted to respond to your questions yesterday which i will paste below:

I would ask you one question as you again lay into Anderson, does any player like change in their program? Playing for one coach and then another in a four year period has to be tough on any program. I applaud the way the team has played this season and last. My question is when does this player v. coach, who likes who and who doesn't end? Is it after this season? the next?

I think your questions are good ones and there is no correct answer.  However, I will give you my answer for what it's worth.  You can at least see where I'm coming from and understand why people feel the way that they do about Anderson.  I know he's got some supporters on here like Thumbsup and people like you who don't have a strong opinion.

Playing for different coaches can be tough, yes, but you must look at the way this whole thing was handled by Hamilton.  Hamilton's administration bungled the whole situation by asking Murphy to move on (for reasons most of us will never fully know) and Hamilton asked the players on the team and the basketball alumni who they wanted to see as candidates.  Hamilton made it clear that this input was important and would be taken seriously.

No one and I repeat no one wanted Anderson as head coach.  They actually specifically said they didnt want him.  So what does the AD do?  He hires Anderson (who at the time had already backed out of the job and returned to Clarkson).  Anderson was not well liked by the players, especially those loyal to Murphy.  Murphy recruited the majority of players on the roster and they came to Hamilton to play for him.  Additionally, Anderson was not and remains to more than a few players to be a phony.  He is seen as disengenous to many players.

Now those that like Anderson will say I'm not being fair, etc. etc.  But I'm just telling you the truth (whether you want to hear it or not).  The guy is not well liked.  Now that doesnt mean the players don't play hard for him.  They do.  They are a team.  And you don't have to like your coach, you just give your all when you step out on the court.

So....................to get back to your questions Shooters...........I think if Anderson remains at Hamilton, he will eventually be accepted.  However, I don't think he'll remain there much longer.  I think he is using the job as a stepping stone to a bigger job.  If he does stay at Hamilton, then once he has more of his own players (that HE ACTUALLY RECRUITED) playing for him, he will get past all of this talk.

[shooters]

Bed,

I appreciate the response. I guess we will wait for when he has his own players, pretty much next year from  what i can tell on the roster. I think all those players outside of TK (who for the record is their best player) from that high school that Murphy has connections with are a bust. I think they will all leave the program next year (two pretty much already have). That Giorgi guy that someone said was a great player and should get more minutes looked lost in the games I watched. Their player Wood is ten times the player Giorgi looked like out there. If that is true that would leave really only TK from the Murphy era, correct? If Anderson is using this as a stepping stone for a bigger job then he must be a good enough coach to make that step. I will be interested in seeing how it all shakes out, and i wasn't a big Anderson fan until i got onto this site and found everyone bashing him as his team won. It pushed me to do some research on the guy and your right in the end stick up for him. I guess I just find it puzzling as a Hamilton fan why the negativity for winning? Guess that goes with the job. You know what they said in the marketing world for your product, you should either want people to love your marketing campaign or absolutely hate it but don't be stuck somewhere in the middle. I would say using that rationale Anderson is getting a lot of airplay positive/negative at least his name is being known.

[Ulf_Tornstrom]

Shooters-

You must love your tools.  I bet you've got your Hilti belt on right now as you parade around your workshop building an "I Love Tobin" sign.

There was never any negativity from Hamilton fans for winning. 

Hamilton SHOULD BE WINNING with the players Anderson has.  He has the best talent in the East.  Going 15-11 a year ago with that group was disgusting.  You have to go all the way back to the early 70's to find a Hamilton team that lost that many games and that was before Coach Murphy recruited anyone! 

The administration will do anything for Anderson to succeed.  They don't want the Hamilton alumni up in arms shouting "We told you so." Therefore, Anderson will get kids in that might not even be accepted at schools like Rochester and Hobart.   

That said, they have a hell of a lot of talent.  But not enough to beat my beloved Pioneers!!!

By the way, comparing Anderson with Murphy is like comparing a Camry with a Bentley.  Do you think Anderson would have taken SUNYIT from the league cellar to the Championship Game of the SUNYAC in ONE YEAR? If I remember correctly, in one year, Anderson had lost more games in a season than Hamilton had lost since the Nixon administation.  McGovern didn't stand a chance in '72 against Richard Milhous Nixon, and neither do your Conts againt UC baby.

Go Pioneers!

[bamm]

Anderson has done a nice job this year, and he had to deal with the mid-season undisclosed problems the Conts had.  From the Nixon references I can tell you have trouble letting things go, but it's been a couple years, let's forget about this and cut Anderson some slack.

Therefore, Anderson will get kids in that might not even be accepted at schools like Rochester and Hobart.   

Have you checked the average SAT scores for the kids at Rochester?  If you're implying they're not selective, you might want to retract that.

[shooters]

The midseason issue w/ Hamilton was in the paper last week and it is not an undisclosed situation. Apparently some booster named Ludwig or Ludwick  paid for deposits for players, those same players that came from that high school. From the article they were cleared to play but didn't like the way things turned out or something so didn't play. I am wondering if there might be a connection between this sad booster Ludwig/Ludwick and Murphy? I mean those are Murphy recruits. The part that concerns me is we are talking D3 basketball and boosters, I've never heard of such a thing. Surely this booster guy has better things to do than worry about a D3 program and putting kids at risk from playing D3 ball!! I could see this unfold in a major D1 program or even a strong D2 but this is just borderline stupid.

Good response Bamm, lets just see how things shake out and like I have said previously Hamilton was predicted to finish third in the confernece this year, the real issue is what happened to Hobart who had everyone back and didn't even make the tournament?

[Ulf_Tornstrom]

Shooters:

Being a Utican, I read the same article.  Why are you classifying the incoming freshmen of last year and this year from St. Alban's as Murphy's recruits?  Those kids were brought in under Anderson's watch.  Namely this year's freshman Ramunas Rozgys and last year's freshman Giorgi Chavleishvili.   Both brought in under Anderson, not Murphy.  Both are the players the article refers to.

It has been clear to me and to others reading your posts that you are anti-Murphy.  It's actually funny.  You sound like a former Hamiltonian who either got cut by Murphy, sat on the bench disgruntled or didn't even play at all.  Either way, it's sad to see you are using this posting area as a way to get your anger out on a living legend.  Being a Hamiltonian, you of all people should realize how much Coach Murphy did for your school in his 30+ years there.

Bamm:  Rochester and Hamilton are even as far as academics go, so no, I wasn't implying anything.  Other than a recruit who gets rejected at UofR should get the same rejection letter from Hamilton. 

[shooters]

Ulf,

I don't post many anti-Murphy comments on this site, only when someone else pops off about Murphy on a site designed for LL posts. My question was whether this connection was something Murphy had established? I agree that these recruits Ramunas and Mandela were under Anderson but I bet Giorgi was coming before Anderson got there and he just accepted. After reading the article I have a feeling that the two players quoted won't be back on the team, the center Giorgi will find an intramural team to play on, and no one from St. Albans will be recruited to Hamilton again. I could be totally off, which I have been before, but like I always say lets let things play out.

I do stand corrected that the two players were Anderson's not Murphy's. I don't know what I was thinking there. I guess it will be up to Anderson as to what happens. The good news is from what I can tell of the stats non of them are going to missed if/when they are gone.

[rjcarter8]

Although Murphy is the SUNYIT coach, I think his tenure at Hamilton warrants it acceptable for people to post about him on this board as well, especially when it relates to Hamilton.

[shooters]

I'm fine with that but for each Murphy comment I am entitled to my responses as well. Thats my point. Like I said earlier he belongs at SUNYIT so I will cheer them on there as well. Last time I looked at a great coaching career it doesn't include getting ran out of your school.

[A Friend]

Ok I am so sick of hearing about Murphy and his legacy. Can we focus on things going on in the tournament and the season at hand. Someone needs to applaud Anderson because even if he has ALL this talent its takes someone to put it together just ask Phil Jackson. 22-4 is no joke regardless of talent. They bashed him when he started they bashed him when he was undefeated they bashed him when he won the regular season league title and they bashed him after his team embarassed Union in the final. Shooters, like i've said before, sounds like someone romancing Anderson but instead of him sounding like somoene cut from Hamilton, it sounds like everyone else on this site was cut from Hamilton and are bitter at the success. Hamilton is in the NCAA playing Plattsburg then Amherst. I think they have a chance against one if not both teams.

[Yankee]

You ever wonder why Murphy got fired? It's really REALLY hard (only a few of you will get that) to get fired from a school where you've been a coach for 30 years, won over 600 games, and had what, 15 all-americans? Just ask Bobby Knight all he had to do was choke a kid, head butt players, and throw chairs across the court.  Maybe, just maybe murph has some skeltons in his closet that even all you former players and hamilton alumni don't know about. Well, some of the alumni most know about them b/c after all you did sponsor the alumni scholarship. If you don't know what the alumni scholarship is then you don't have a clue, and you shouldn't be singing Murph's praises. The person who posted on this site earlier about D3 bosters is getting warm. The rest of you are just a bunch of suckers.

[thumbsup]

Bed, shooters, Rj, etc., you guys formulate fun to read responses back with information that has factual base to it.  Then we get Ulf whatever, who is on a one year bandwagon at Utica.  I would like to see that game again, Utica and Hamilton.  Hamilton played the JV's against them the first time and was up 15 at half.  Nothing against Utica, great season, but come on, the empire 8 is awful.  Anderson was coach of the year at Clarkson, and did beat the Murph in his own dojo twice, so maybe he had a clue on getting kids to play hard for him against a school that has always gotten any kid they wanted to get in.  I am not saying that the current administration isn't helping coach Anderson, but don't for a minute think that Murphy got anything he wanted, especially when he was the AD.  And don't think for a second, that any of those problems that took place this year wasn't backlash from former Murphy boosters.  Let's call a spade a spade here.  BTW, Ulf, Utica has had a great season, nice job down there, don't tarnish it on here with idiotic comments.

[woot]

i believe that ramunas rozgys would have been rookie of the year if these events hadnt gone down. bella wouldnt have stood a chance.

[bed]

There is so much to write about, but let me get out a few main points:

1) Murphy recruited Giorgi and the kid is a hell of a player.  He's not TK, but who is?  TK is a special player.  Giorgi's size and inside presence made him a very impressive rookie last season.  He's raw and yes he's a bit slow.  He has problems with his footwork.  But instead of Anderson working with him (perhaps he will next season when some of his key starters graduate), he chose to not really try and develop Giorgi.  But I'm telling you that this kid is good and if given the minutes next season....I think he could really develop by mid-season next year.  But he's a Murphy recruit, not Anderson.

2) Nobody (well I am not at least......I can only speak for myself) is saying Anderson is a bad coach.  I don't think he's great by any stretch, but he's average at this point in his career.  He's solid.  However, he rubs many people the wrong way and comes across like a snake oil salesman or car dealer.  He may be a nice guy and some on here may like him.  Hey, we all like and dislike players and coaches.  Nothing wrong with that.  We can agree to disagree.

3) Anderson has done a solid job.  I give him credit for having a great season.  However (i.e. that being said), you must look at (as I've said before) who he beat and who he lost to this season (e.g. Williams, Utica, Hobart) AND ALSO the amazing talent on that Hamilton roster.    Those are factors to analyze how great a coach and how great a season it has been for Hamilton.  I think at this point in his career, Tobin Anderson is a decent coach, but one not respected by his peers in the Liberty League, nor by many on his roster.  Does that mean he's a bad coach?  Again, no.  Just means his personality is not that of Monatana, Griffin, Murphy, or Downs, to name a few.

4) The Hamilton Administration had it out for certain people.  The "powers that be" at the school fired a football coach in 1999 who was one of the most successful football coaches in Hamilton history----a man by the name of Head Football Coach Steve Frank.  They didn't like Frank so they got rid of him despite his success.  They brought in a guy a couple years ago named Pete Alvanos (from Swathmore) and they fired him this year----though his record wasn't good, but his players really liked him and enjoyed playing for him even though the team stunk.
          SIMILARLY, Murphy was and is his own man----just like Frank.  They were looking to get Murphy for a couple years (since 1999 really when they forced him to "resign" or "step down" from his position as Athletic Director).  Eventaully they found someone they thought they could use on him.  It was no secret that Murphy had a lot of alumni support from ex-players and families associated with the Hamilton program.  Murphy used that money to pay for trips for his team and other basketball related expenses.  There is nothing, ZERO, zilch wrong with that.
         But many coaches and the New AD were jealous and envious of Murphy's ability to do things for his program (e.g. trips, tournaments, etc.) without having to do the typical fundraising that other programs like softball or lacrosse might have to do to raise that kind of money.   BUT MURPHY was there for 30 plus years so he built up a network and a lot of support to provide for his program b/c people wanted to give back to him and to the new and future players who played bball for Hamilton.
       Allegedly and no one has ever really confirmed the true story, the new AD and others find that Murphy had used of some  of that money  to help pay for something that he shouldnt have really paid for OR that the money was misallocated OR that the money was kept in an account that it shouldn't have been kept in.....................the result???  Those that were out to get the man who had been his own man for so many years and bucked the establishment finally had their excuse or reason. 
      So Murphy left.  Took a year as an Assistant Head Coach and now is back and took his team to the SUNYAC Tourney where they beat the #1 seed Cortland and lost in the Championship Game and then qualified for the ECAC.  VERY VERY impressive to all who are up on D3 bball.

And there hasn't been an alumni basketball game at Hamilton for the last 2 seasons b/c those loyal to Murphy and to the school, feel that Murphy was treated unfairly and that the school showed no loyalty and no class in doing what it did without providing any public explanation to anyone.  Therefore, despite Coach Anderson's desire to have ex-players come back to campus for an alumni game, none will come back to play AND few, if any, give money.  However, you can be sure they will support their old coach at SUNY IT as he tries to continue to build that program.