MBB: Liberty League

[rjcarter8]

Bed, you hit the nail squarely on the head. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[bed]

Thank you!

[Yankee]

Who wouldn't support a coach who paid $16k a year for you to go to school out his slush fund aka alumni scholarship.  Hitler had loyal supporter too, doesn't mean he was doing things the right way.

[bed]

Yankee,

What athletes/players are you alleging received this "alumni" scholarship?

Hamilton's admissions office for about the last 10 years really has been strict about allowing athletes (no matter how good) into the school if their academic numbers aren't there.  Hamilton's SAT scores are way up from where they were 10 years ago and the school has continually climbed on the US News and World Report Rankings.

The idea that anyone (including Coach Murphy or Coach Anderson) has a blank check (so to speak) to get "anyone" into the school has no basis in fact or reality.

And there's no way you could prove your assertion that such a scholarship existed.......can you?  Can you show that some students gained admission that shouldn't have?  Yes, every coach has some influence and can make a case to the admissions office, but if the academic numbers arent there, there's no way the kid is getting in the school.

If you have some actual, concrete, specific information, I would love to hear it.

[Yankee]

Check your e-mail.

[shooters]

Classic Yankee!!!

I wondered why if Murphy was such a legend did he leave w/o a fight, not a lawsuit nothing! It all makes sense now. If there was such a fund and god knows i have no idea but it sounds like others do, then I can see why the AD went out and got a guy who didn't have Hamilton connections, and hence why he didn't listen to the players or alumni on suggestions. How come nobody has posted anything regarding this until after the season was over. It could have helped me in my postings throughout the year, at least given me some ammo to fire back at people. I bet it was even worse when he was the AD and coach.

Bed I do agree with your earlier post, except for the Giorgi comment, I mean unless he is hurt or something he just looks like someone from the Dog Pound out there playing, and he's getting about the same amount of minutes as someone from the Pound. I will wait it out and see what happens next year, perhaps he'll come back ready to play.

[shea]

Bed,

I think you make some good points, and I also realize that this isn't a football forum, but there really is no comparison between the firing of Frank and the firing of Murphy.  You said of Frank that "they got rid of him despite his success."  Here are Frank's records for his last three years at the helm:

1997: 2-6
1998: 1-7
1999: 0-8

Steve Frank is a great guy and I like him a lot.  While he has certainly had his successes over the years, to put him in the same league as one of the winningest coaches in D3 Basketball history seems to be a bit of a stretch.  Murphy was let go DURING his (long uninterrupted) run of success, not during a dismal downturn.  Coaches aren't hired to be friendly, even at the D3 level.  Alvanos just didn't have the success for which the school was looking.  Oh, and he was brought in from Swarthmore after Swarthmore CANCELLED their football program.  I think it's clear that the administration did want to see Murphy go and worked at it for a few years; the firing of struggling football coaches can hardly be attributed to the same sort of 'politics of personal destruction'.

I do agree with you that Hamilton's coaches can't just get in anyone they want.  It has been my opinion that until a few years ago, it was actually a bit more difficult for Hamilton's coaches to get their athletes in than it was for some of their colleagues in the NESCAC.  Now the NESCAC has a more formalized way of monitoring athletic admits so the playing field is a bit more consistently level, and I believe Hamilton has to abide by NESCAC guidelines in all sports even though it is now primarily a LL participant.  Does anyone have any info on this?

[CCsalive]

Many are treading on thin ice...it is best to let certain things rest.

To return to bball. If Hamilton gets past Plattsburgh the Conts are in for a BALLGAME against an Amherst squad who brings Adolphe Coulibaly(Brown transfer who scored 11 as a frosh against Missouri on opening night last year) off the bench as their 8th or 9th man. The Jeffs are L.O.A.D.E.D

Hamilton has five to seven players...there's a difference b/w having talented freshmen and depth. Amherst has depth including three all-conference players in NESCAC which is like the Big East compared to the LL. They also have about six guys 6'6" or bigger.

It will be a great match-up...I've seen Amherst twice this season and I know all of Hamiltons players and history...I witnessed TK register a 7.6 on the richter scale as a freshmen when he switched hands in mid-air and through down a lefty, one-handed, "and-one", thunderdunk.  He is a terrible victim of the coaching change, but if Hamilton stays hot, he might be exchanging a shot at all-american for a Final Four birth. But, the odds are with Amherst.

[rjcarter8]

What thin ice are you talking about?

[met_fan]

This whole Murphy/Anderson thing is incredibly tiresome.  Gee, coaches, administrators, alumni, and players not getting along - who would believe it?

[Assists12]

Fella's

I have been reading posts all year.  I am a former player for Anderson when I was at Clarkson.  I was there when he took over the job for Walter Townes and turned the program around.  He is tough and comes across as cocky, but he knows his x's and o's and he recruits his ass off, this I know.  He is always looking for players and works hard.  He walked into a tough situation at Hamilton, but as a coach, if you have the opportunity to move up you take it.

No one should be bashing Murph or Tobin.  Coaching is their life.  They both work hard at it and they both are competitors.  I have a ton of respect for Murph and he has proven himself.  I think Tobin walked into a tough situation last year and proved himself this year, and he proved himself at Clarkson turning that program around.  He is the only coach in Clarkson Men's history to lead his team to post season bids and he did this three times.  This year anytime your team goes 22-4, you are doing something right.  And it is not all Murph's guys, Wood, Valentti and Jones are Tobins as everyone knows.  And if you look at the box scores, Nick Jones has come off the bench atleast six times this year.

Now as I said before Tobin can be cocky and truthfully we had our clashes at times, but ones this for sure, while I was at Clarkson every player that played for him did not always like him but they respected him.

Hopefully this nonsense will come to an end.  I like Murph and Tobin, but let's talk about the league and players, and stop beating this no win situation to death, because obviously former Hamilton players or alum are not gonna like anyone that took the job after murph.  It's like Mike Davis at Indiana, it was a not win situation.

[fpc85]

Who is going to be the coach for Hobart?

[rjcarter8]

Ithaca upsets Union tonight, 86-83.

A bit of a surprise, though the Bombers shot very well tonight. They also outrebounded Union by about a 2-1 margin.

Ithaca shot 61 percent from the field, Union 55 percent.

For the Bombers, five players in double figures.
Bellis 17 points, Bostic 15, Scanlon 15, Burton 12 and Andruskiewicz with 10 points.

For Union, Scordato had 28 points and 11 assists, and Caginello had 24 points and finished his career with 2,006 points.

Congrats to IC on the win, now they move on to the ECAC semifinals, and will face Brockport, which upset SUNYIT 91-88 tonight. In other results, Potsdam beat Keuka 81-69 and Oswego edged RIT 84-81.

[bed]

I hear what you guys are saying about not beating things to death.....but these days between the tourney selection and the first games have been slow......there will be a lot to talk about if hamilton wins tomorrow and faces amherst.

a couple responses to a couple comments:

1) CC---mr. conn college............as a former hamiltonian, you should know that some of the innuendo and rumors about murphy that have been posted on this site are exagerrations and factually inaccurate.  I dont know what "thin ice" you are talking about, but I take it personally when someone attacks Murphy with rumor mill gossip.  I have no problem defending Murphy b/c he didnt do anything that rose to the level of being forced out by administrators or athletic directors that WERE forced out or ARE about to be forced out.  I did get an email from Yankee..........and it was informative and laid out some interesting points, which I respect, but again, I think we can agree to disagree on some issues.  However, this alumni scholarship business is not accurate.  What is ACCURATE is that Hamilton (like many other NESCAC schools and perhaps those schools in other conferences) will provide more financial aid to certain athletes so that they can get help in affording to attend a college.  This happened at Hamilton and it happens elsewhere.  NO ONE who works in Admissions will ever admit "on the record" that this happens, but it does.  FACT.

2) Shea:  I'm glad you like Steve Frank.  He's a great guy and was a tremendous coach at Hamilton.  Please check out his coacahing record from 1985-1997.  You will find out that it is something like 54-45-1 or something close to that.  He is a good 10-12 games over .500 playing against tough NESCAC opponents.  However, beginning in 1997, Hamilton brought in a new Director of Admissions (who has long since been booted from the school---I believe about 2 years ago or so) and this guy's philosophy was to raise the SAT scores and the rankings, etc.  He cut back on the types of student athletes that Coach Frank and other coaches could get into the school.  As a result, the football team suffered greatly.  Coach Frank didnt all of a sudden FORGET how to coach from 1997-1999, but his hands were tied.
          It was a CATCH-22 situation.  You can't expect him to win games when he can't get the players into the school to compete with Middlebury, Trinity, Williams, Amherst, etc.  BUT if you don't allow him to get those players in, it's not fair to say he's not winning games (i.e. between 1997-1999).  Williams is a much bigger school than Hamilton and was able to hide lower SAT scoring students (e.g. a kid with 1000 SAT's wouldnt affect your median SAT as much at Williams b/c they have hundreds of more students than are enrolled at Hamilton).
          I was not comparing Frank to Murphy or vice-versa..........what I was comparing was the idea that some of the administrators didnt like them both b/c both marched to the beat of their own drum and wouldn't kiss the asses of those that liked being kissed up to........both Frank and Murphy were loyal guys who told it like it and was............and some didnt appreciate that in the Hamilton Power Structure.    BUT AGAIN, Murphy is obviously a much better coach than Frank----I apologize if it sounded like I was saying that.

3) Shooters:  The reason Murphy didn't sue anyone (he had filed a suit)---so that's wrong...........but he dropped his suit upon getting a nice settlement with the school.  They bought out his contract and/or offered him money and I believe there was a confidentiality agreement signed by the attornies and parties not to discuss the terms of the settlement.   BUT USE YOUR COMMON SENSE----do you think Murphy would just step aside without suing unless he was compensated by the school and not allowed to discuss the circumstances of his "resignation"....

4) Assists:  Anderson had some good players up at Clarkson:  I believe three of them were:  Ashton, Fritz, and Saucier.........if memory serves....I might be butchering the names but those guys were good players.  I think your analysis is right on about both coaches.  As I've said before, Anderson will be fine in time whether he remains at Hamilton or goes elsewhere.  But he is cocky, he comes across that way, and he can be your friend one moment and not your friend the next day---and that's hard for some players.  He's a good coach with a different style than Murphy.  I remember one time when Anderson brought his squad to Clinton, and Murphy was yelling at the refs (I love that!!) and the refs gave Hamilton a call (who knows if the foul called on Clarkson was a good call or not) but Tobin yells to the ref, " That's crap, no way, that's Murph for 30 years.  That call is Murphy being here for 30 years."  And that was classic Murph working the officials and the young guy (Anderson) realizing that one day he'd be the veteran getting the calls on his home floor.   SO.........I think your comments were very accurate and very fair.

[bed]

Not to get ahead of ourselves, b/c Hamilton hasn't beaten anyone yet, but if they do advance to play Amherst.......I agree with CC that it will be tough for Hamilton.

Athletically, the NESCAC----especially at the top of the league (Amherst, Tufts, etc.) are such a different caliber of team than Hamilton sees night in and night out.  The size and strength of the players on the Amherst roster will be tough for the Continentals to handle.

Hamilton has often struggled in the NCAA tourney against bigger, physical opponents:  Trinity, Williams, Cortland---to name a few of the teams Hamilton has to in the NCAA tourney.