MBB: Liberty League

[bed]

RJ,

Though it's not a perfect comparison by any stretch.........and people can agree or disagree with me........but I believe the situation with the Librerty League is analogous to the Division I  majors vs. mid-majors and the whole tourny selection...........Let me explain.......

There's a debate in D1 about the at-large bids and the mid-majors and smaller conferences VS. the bigger conferences (e.g. Big 12, Big East, ACC, SEC, etc.) and how many teams should get in.............Dick Vitale, Billy Packer, etc. etc. make the argument that the BEST teams should get those at-large bids and not the mid-majors b/c if you ask anyone who knows anything about college basketball who would win in a 1 game or best of 10 games-------Cincinatti or Hofstra or George Mason-----------everyone knows Cincy would dominate them.  Much like Louisville would too---and they werent even considered for an at large bid.

Long story short...........back to D3...............Hamilton is the best of a weak conference (a mid major, if you will).....whereas Amherst and the top half of the NESCAC are big time teams who are so far superior to the Liberty League or even conferences with St. John Fisher, etc.

So the Liberty League is down and even the good teams like Hamilton and Union can't compete with the big time teams (who are like Power conferences in Division 1).

I think you can go beyond the Liberty League and say you would be hard pressed to find many teams in New York State that are as good as the top teams in New England. 

[rjcarter8]

Bed,

Good comparison. I agree with you that New England schools always seem to dominate the East region. I know Hamilton is a perennial power in NYS, as Fisher also has become, but they never seem to be able to get over the hump.

I certainly think the LL was down this season, and no team deserved an at large bid from that league. I think my biggest surprise was Union going down in the opener of the ECAC tourney, especially since they were a 2 seed. I guess their inability to defend shots played a big role in their final two losses, letting their two opponents - Hamilton and Ithaca - shoot better than 60 percent from the field. And Hamilton also canned 19-of-31 3-point attempts. I just thought Union was a better team, but Ithaca showed it had a little something in the ECAC tourney didn't they?

[bed]

Just to throw in yet another Division I comparison, the ECAC is a bit like the NIT tourney, and I think often when teams don't make the NCAA (e.g. Cincinatti or Hofstra, etc.) they take the NIT birth.  Now, some teams may turn it down and not go, which I think some in D3 do also with respect to the ECAC.

But my point is that sometime those D1 bubble teams go to the NIT or a team like Union who really had a good shot to win its conference tourney (LL title) and get an automatic birth, go to ECAC---------------and whether it's the NIT or ECAC, these teams arent fully committed to playing 100% whether consciously or unconciously, while their opponents (e.g. Ithaca) are really keen on winning the ECAC or playing extremely hard.   I think you can also see that from
SUNY-IT (Murphy's team) who also got an ECAC bid, and lost early also.

Union was a solid team this year in the LL, but I think Hamilton was just better.  I think went they went to the ECAC's, they probably just got beaten by a hungrier Ithaca team.

[gobombers15]

Bed, I don't know how you can say Ithaca was a "hungrier" team. That was a squad that looked extremely lackluster against Utica in the E8 semis. So much so, that many fans, including myself, thought the team had just mailed it in and would make a quick exit from the ECAC's. Union had more seniors than Ithaca and probably should have been the "hungrier" team of the two. It's not like Union was snubbed by the committee. Sure, they had a shot to make the tourney if they beat Hamilton, but they were crushed in that game. They didn't exactly lose that one in heartbreaking fashion. Maybe Union just wasn't as good as they should have been this year. No more excuses.

Union got beat by a team whose coach finally figured out a good rotation (better late than never, I suppose) and was finally hitting their shots. You can't tell me Union didn't want that game. They made a huge push in the 2nd half and even took the lead on Ithaca. I'm sure they weren't sitting there thinking "Yeah, even though we're ahead with a few minutes left, I'd really just prefer this be the last game of my competitive basketball life--I think I'm just going to stop caring." Get serious. Union just couldn't stop Bellis down the stretch and, believe me, the Dutchmen aren't the only team that had trouble with him, as evidenced by his 2nd team all-region status.

Any athlete worth his or her salt wants to compete and wants to win. When I'm playing intramural ultimate frisbee I try just as hard as I did when I was playing in Sectional Finals during my high school days. It's possible they may have just overlooked Ithaca, I don't know. Just don't take the easy way out and say "they didn't care that much about ECAC's," because that's garbage.

[rjcarter8]

GB15,

I also do not think Union mailed it in. I think Ithaca just outplayed them in that game. It's possible Union may have looked past them a bit, but Scordato and Caginello both hit for over 20 points, and with their senior starters I don't think any of them wanted to go out like that.

I know how to give credit when credit is due -- IC simply played better than Union in the ECACs. Congrats to the Bombers, by the way, for taking the whole thing.

[UCAAHoops21]

Anybody have any news on the hobart coaching opening?  Has anyone been named coach yet?  I have been out of the loop for a month and am trying to catch up.

[shooters]

They named the head coach for Hobart and it wasn't the guy from st. john fisher, it was Izzi Metz, an assistant at Cornell and grad of Hobart. I want those people on here and i doubt i'll get a response til fall but those that doubt coach Anderson and his ability to coach to watch the class he brings in this year. Rumor has it he has like three point guards coming that ARE legit, including a D2 transfer. Put any one of them w/ Rogers next year and sit back and watch. I can hardly wait for the season to start!!

[juice31skid]

what's going on with skidmore's recruiting this year....ANYTHING?

[Pat Coleman]

We don't usually hear much from Skidmore. Hopefully you can stick around and be our news pipeline this season.

Welcome to the board.

[juice31skid]

I'm less tapped in to it in recent years...I graduated in 2000 although I can say that they could recruit a team of apes and have a better season than last year

[Rachel Ray]

They got a really good bigman from Holy Name in Worcester.  He will contribute immediately, especially defensively and on the boards.  I forget his first name but his last name is Landford.  He is an excellent shot blocker and will be among the Liberty League leaders as a freshman.

[UCAAHoops21]

i saw today that the interm coach at hobart last season, Joe Wojtylko is now an assistant at hamilton...also have noticed that Union and Vassar were looking for new assistants and that Hobart has a brand new staff...anyone know who is in those spots? 
What are everyone's thoughts about how the LL will look this year?
Hamilton loses Welchons, Valenti and Peck, but I hear they have a nice class coming
RPI lost just about everyone that played any real minutes for them, and Union lost some studs...
SLU seems to be in a good spot.
So what do people think?  any news on incoming classes?  coaching changes? 

[shooters]

Your top two teams this year will be SLU and Hamilton without question. Union lost their top players and like you said RPI pretty much is busing in a completely new team. I think with SLU's team of young players will be a tough act to follow and it will be a two horse race b/c Hamilton returns Jones and TK. I've heard that Hamilton has 2 or 3 guards that were recruited that can play right away. They will miss Welcons and his senior leadership. Nice pick up of the coach from Hobart as an assistant for Hamilton. Should be an interesting year. I hope Hobart and Union can return to their teams of the past and become competitive again.

[thumbsup]

Predictions for 06-07

1. Hamilton
2. St. Lawrence
3. Hobart
4. Clarkson
5. Vassar
6. Union
7. R.P.I.
8. Skidmore

Any other predictions??

[Pat Coleman]

Why should anyone else predict if you got cold feet and deleted yourself from the system?