MBB: Liberty League

FisherDynasty · December 04, 2006, 11:09:21 PM

I think two Leagues are pretty close this year. If you take top 4 Fisher, Utica, RIT/Ithaca, Naz and top 4 in Liberty Hamilton, St. Lawrence, RPI and Clarkson itd be close. I think Hamilton, Fisher and Utica are the 3 best with the others close behind. This far into the season it is tough to tell who the best is, Hamilton beat Utica but everyone on the posts say that Utica should have won, I know that doest mean much but sometimes the better team doesnt win the game. Fisher is suspect with their young guards and lack of leadership but its hard not to favor them from the past 2 very good seasons. Hamilton probably has the most talent, Utica plays the strongest, and Fisher has the best big men. Down the stretch id have to go with Utica tho, since they play very strong and play extremely good Defense. We'll be able to see how good Fisher is this thursday against U of R.

slickyquick · December 05, 2006, 11:19:09 AM

I think everyone is forgetting SLU. They return basically their whole team from last year which finished extremely strong considering they relied on 4 freshmen and 1 sophomore as their main players. They also got two guard recruits that will help with the point duties. They aren't normaly freshmen because one went to prep school and the other is about 21 years old. They should definitely be mentioned as one of the top teams in the region.

I don't know quite yet if we can include Fisher into the top teams this year. I'm not saying that they won't be but their freshmen guards have to mature quickly for them to be successful. It is tough when you have really good bigs when your guards can't get them the ball.

rjcarter8 · December 05, 2006, 12:34:13 PM

Quote from: UCAAHoops21 on December 04, 2006, 12:01:47 AM
RPI beat Williams at williams...even if williams is down this year as it seems to be, still a huge win for anybody on the road. Hamilton should be able to get that win too. SLU certainly is in the discussion with Hamilton at the top, RPI seems to be much improved over last year...Union looks young...those were the top 4 last year. I don't know about clarkson and skidmore, but I think Vassar and hobart may slip into the discussion of who wins the LL tourney...

for discussion's sake...
1. Hamilton
2. SLU
3. RPI
4. Union
5. Hobart
6. Vassar
7. Clarkson
8. Skidmore

I don't think Union can rank that high, I'd probably swap them with Vassar. The Dutchmen are 1-2 and lost a ton of talent from last year's team. They are extremely young and inexperienced and just dropped a 76-70 loss to Middleury.

cu_bball · December 05, 2006, 05:23:48 PM

Everyone seems to be doubting Clarkson's guards.. They werent very good against Elmira but the whole team played pretty poorly. Big man Elson Pickering is definitly a presence down low and the teams defense has definitly improved. Freshman Waryn McCullough is looking pretty good since coming back from the injury and Brandon Linton adds alot of speed of the bench. One flaw I have noticed is that the team tends to start slow and that will definitly hurt them against the better teams because they will fall behind early and they may not always be able to recover like they did vs. elmira.

woot returns · December 05, 2006, 06:18:57 PM

hey does anyone know why the teams from the liberty league, empire 8 or suny ac ac conferences ever play ranked division III teams? do the coaches not want to schedul ethese out of conference games because they want a better record? or is there a nother reason? b/c you never see like say clarkson playing like virginia wesleyan or even nyu for that matter.

cu_bball · December 05, 2006, 06:40:06 PM

Id speculate because most of the teams would get beat

slickyquick · December 05, 2006, 08:38:09 PM

I'd suspect New York area teams not playing teams in the top 25 because of budget restrictions especially for the SUNYAC schools. It is generally tough for a team like Oneonta to go out to play teams in like Wittenberg or Wooster because it would an extremely long trip and it doesn't benefit teams as much anymore. When I say it doesn't benefit them I mean it doesn't affect their strength of schedule because of the new way the Strength of Schedule works for the NCAA. I believe they only take their in region strength of schedule instead of their overall. So with RPI beating Williams at Williams it is not as big as of a win as we think. Of course, beating Williams on their home floor is a great win for the program but it won't affect their in region SOS.

I'm sure it would benefit teams to play them especially early in the season to see where they stand, but it is really tough budget wise. They aren't exactly working on U of R or NYU budgets here.

met_fan · December 05, 2006, 08:54:30 PM

I'm pretty sure Williams counts as in-region for RPI. It's only about 30 miles away, and besides, it's listed as in-region on their schedule. Williams is in-region for Hamilton, too.

met_fan · December 05, 2006, 09:17:02 PM

Hamilton over Wesleyan, 79-76. Close game all they way.

shooters · December 05, 2006, 09:56:28 PM

That was an interesting score, sounded like Jones and TK took over late in the game. Is Weslyan any good? I know they beat Williams but then again who hasn't this year.

met_fan · December 05, 2006, 10:12:14 PM

Wesleyan is likely a middle of the pack NESCAC team, below Amherst, Tufts, Bates, and Trinity, but could finish above any of the other five teams. Pretty good win for Hamilton, but that's a game they should win. Jones didn't seem to play much at all in the second half until the very end.

FisherDynasty · December 05, 2006, 10:55:25 PM

woot returns. Some teams schedule ranked teams, but with the league play and the Chase tournament in Rochester, there are a limited number of non-conf games. Fisher & U of R 2 ranked teams in the past have a hard time scheduling other ranked teams because there isnt any in the Region. But some 2, Fisher has played Baldwin Wallace, Randolph Macon, Springfield, York PA. U of R schedules usually a few good teams into their preseason mix Wittinburgh, some UW Wisconsin teams etc, Hamilton travels to the Nescac, and Brockport has gone to calvin and played some Nescac schools but again, a lot of schools only have the budget to make a long road trip once every few years, its a shame.

woot returns · December 05, 2006, 10:58:30 PM

no wesleyan is not good at all, but they work together.. not a single player on their team as a spec of athletic ability and most are very unathletic. They are undersized at most positions and have no real stars. Some of the players on the team look like they have been playing basketball for about a month. however, they hustle, have a lot of heart, and seem to be respect their coach and his game plan. the reason why wesleyan almost beat hamilton is beacuse hamilton's tobin anderson was severely out coached by the weseleyan coach. no one on the hamilton team respects or likes their coach and it is is clearly evident on the court. the hamilton team is on a verge of a complete collapse and division. Don't be surprised if hamilton loses alot this season.

met_fan · December 05, 2006, 11:06:53 PM

Isn't that the same thing that gets said about Anderson and Hamilton every year since he's been there? And that's a bit harsh on Wesleyan. They're no playoff contender, but they're not Paul Smiths, either.

slickyquick · December 06, 2006, 09:39:56 AM

I could be wrong about the in-region games with teams like Williams and what not. What I was saying was a proposal from the NCAA that came about a couple of years ago and I know a couple of coaches weren't too happy about it because playing a team like Trinity or Amherst wouldn't mean a thing for a team outside their region.