MBB: Liberty League

[FLYZ5]

Congratulations to St. Lawrence & RPI for post season play.
RPI regrouped and rose from the ashes after last year's regrettable NCAA ineligible player infraction.
Any truth to the rumblings that the RPI coach is stepping down?  Will one of the assistant coaches take over?
Will the LL gain some strength or be even weaker next year?

[with age came?]

Flyz5- Have not heard anything about Griffin.  Probably would be a nice time to step down as I think RPI will be down next year.  Go out with an NCAA appearance.  As a whole I think the LL was as strong this year as it has been for awhile.  Good parity and six of the 8 teams in the playoff hunt on the last game of the season.  One doesn't know about recruiting but based on returnees I think the league will be slightly down overall next year.   SLU will still be the team to beat but Wopperer and Vonnak are good players that I believe will graduate.  Williams was pretty good too and I believe will be gone, but both Sharlows, Parham and the return of Andy Hoercher from injury will make SLU the favorite.  Hamilton will probably be down slightly as well with the loss of Wood (in particular) and Dumas to a lesser extent but will always challenge.  RPI will be down unless someone vastly improves.  They have been the Simmons show for a couple years and he is gone.  Clarkson will be better.  Loses solid contributors in Salanger & Smith but everyone else returns including 2 POY candidates in Linton & Pickering (if he gets totally healthy). Union will be down but will compete for playoff spot ( though loss of Desmaris & Madej will hurt). Hobart will contend for league title - everyone back, strong underclassman in Estep & Llewellyn -especially if a big steps up and Llewellyn plays slightly more in control. Vassar I believe will be down with loss of Butterworth & Davis ( I would have to pick them as 8 th in the league).  Skidmore - mark my words - will be the most improved team in the league.  They had the best total freshman recruiting class in the league and will be a contender either next year or the following year for certain.

[FLYZ5]

with age---
you seem to know the most about RPI.  You have mentioned at least 2 or more players from the LL teams that will create a significant loss except RPI.
RPI seems to be the only team across the DII boards where the issue of team imbalance is so extreme.
To quote you---"they have been the Simmons show for a couple of years, he WAS the team, had no other option, the man is the ENTIRE show at RPI, he gets no help, RPI is the Simmon's show, RPI needs someone to complement Simmons and Simmons carried his RPI team on his back for the whole season."
In your humble opinion, how does this happen?  It seems contrary to the NCAA DIII philosophy and strategic plan which incorporates the priorities and important values of teamwork, discipline, ethical competition, respect for others and the overall well being of every student athlete.
Is the problem ineffective/lack of/poor/recruiting/coaching/mentoring/leadership/player development??
Is it all about winning & not about the individual scholar athletes?
VERY interested in your take since you seem more connected to RPI than most.

[with age came?]

FlyZ- I am not as well versed with RPI as you give me credit for.  I do think that Simmons did dominate the team at RPI.  RPI was an extremely young team with only one other senior a scrappy guard (Perner) who was not really an offensive threat so it could be that next year a more balanced team will emerge, but if you asked me where RPI would have been without Simmons this year I think I could say quite seriously that they would not have made the LL playoffs and finished the season with 6-8 fewer wins.  Simmons was the that important to the success of this team.  There is no other single player in the league whose loss to a team would have affected their outcome so greatly.  Their second option at RPI was a decent swingman (Rupp) but he probably would not start on the St Law team that RPI beat in the league championships. Their other bigs were scrappy (Brion)  &/ or lanky (Philatre) and either could surprise when not in Simmons' shadow.  Guard play really was by committee so I did not get the flavor that there were any standouts. This is not a knock on the coaching staff because honestly winning the league would change my vote for Coaching Staff of the year to Griffin's at RPI.  There was absolutely, "in my mind", no way that RPI would beat St Law on its home court for the the title.

[FLYZ5]

with age-your response is much appreciated!! I don't think I gave you too much credit.
Not so sure winning 1 game at St. Lawrence should have earned RPI coaching honors.  Did RPI have a great game or did SLU have an off game?  Coaching honors encompass an entire season.  Hands down (no pun intended), the best and most deserving coach won COY.
Glad to see some love for other RPI players who (sort of) contributed.
Yet the issue of gross team imbalance still exists unlike any other DIII program.
RPI had an 18 man roster last year and a 16 man roster this season---a JV feeder team to draw from---and 4 years of recruits since Simmons joined the team (after being recruited, according to their website, by the football program).
How does a team end up depending on one player, who wasn't even a basketball recruit, almost exclusively, for 2 years?
Isn't it kind of incredulous? The numbers just don't add up.
They recruited an ineligible foreign player, ineffective guards and bigs that are overshadowed??
Shouldn't there have been more options, better player development and more effective recruiting?  (3 good reasons why Downs was COY).
Call me crazy but I don't get it.

[with age came?]

flyz- Your points are absolutely valid.  Recruiting, player options, & development - Downs is hands down better.  I guess I have a little different philosopy on COY.  If one includes the above categories there is no question of Downs' merit for COY, but my personal position is what did you achieve with the "hand you were dealt" during the season.  I know you could say that you were in part the cause of "the hand" but I chose to say that once the season has started recruiting from that time forward really can not alter the season, so how did a coach do with what he has in front of him.  Downs just had the horses 2 first team allstars (J Sharlow & Wopperer), a second teamer (Williams) and an unrecognized but deserving in my mind Sr (Vonnak).  In addition he had 2 really good freshman that I am sure were considered for ROY (Parham & G Sharlow). He had the horses, granted possibly because of his own recruiting efforts, and he rode them home.  However Griffin rode a one horse & several ponies team to 2 wins over St Law and a spot in the NCAA's.   He may have relatively accomplished more with comparatively less once the season started and recruitment no longer became a tool for improvement during the course of the season. I think both of our arguements could be made and both are valid. We just chose to look at the criteria for evaluation in different ways.

[FLYZ5]

with age-thanks for the insight.
The upshot is that I will never understand how Griffin got his RPI team into the untenable position of such an unbalanced "one horse show".  Makes no sense but who knows--there's always next year and perhaps, a new era.

[with age came?]

Flyz- Hence my point- what better time to step down.  You have just led you your team to Liberty League Championship and NCAA berth and next year you may be picked for 6th 7th or 8th in the league.  Go out a "psuedo" winner and leave the mess for someone else to solve?? Hey it could be I am all wet about the remaining talent and giving Simmons far too much credit (but I don't think so and only time will tell).

[FLYZ5]

No question-Simmons deserves a lot of credit.  He definitely was Griffin's workhorse. If there's a dearth of remaining talent because someone fell asleep at the wheel, that's certainly not Simmons' responsibility.
I'm not so sure Griffin would consider it a winning exit strategy to "leave a mess for someone else to solve". He seems to be a shrewd coach and I have to give him more credit than that.  Hopefully, he thinks a bit more outside the box because, as you know, with age,(hopefully), comes wisdom. 

[met_fan]

Any chance the LL looks for someone to replace Hamilton when they leave for the NESCAC full time in two years?

[buck1053]

With Stockwell heading to Oswego, any word on the Clarkson vacancy?

[Raptormania!]

"Any chance the LL looks for someone to replace Hamilton when they leave for the NESCAC full time in two years?"

Yes. An upgrade. Bard College to the Liberty League, starting in 2011-12. Enjoy conference titles while you still can, Liberty League members.

http://www.libertyleaguesports.org/images/release_0619.pdf

[UCAAHoops21]

Raptormania!  It will be fun to see you on the LL board from now on.....

Who is going to coach for Bard?  Why is coach wood leaving?  You seem to be in the know down there....

Wondering what this does for scheduling for LL?

Vassar and RPI are current travel partners, RIT I guess matches with Hobart for travel, but what about Bard/Vassar and RPI, Union & Skidmore?

Not sure yet about this move, but RIT is solid and I have to think Bard is going to step up with a new coach and more investment in athletics, especially hoops

[Raptormania!]

Thanks for the welcome!

Still eager to find out who will be at the helm next- could be a huge opportunity.

Bard clearly will need to step up athletics funding to compete in the Liberty League. However, I don't think they'd take this step if that weren't on the table- I certainly hope not, anyway!

Two games a year against Vassar is also going to be fantastic for on-campus participation. Vassar, for those who don't know, is Bard's arch rival. It's been upsetting not to see the two teams play in recent years.

Bard/Vassar, I assume, have to be likely travel partners.

[FROMAFAR]

It feels strange writing on this page......  I guess I'll be in and out until RIT begins it's LL phase........... but will have to stay close to E-8 as I know the teams and players there now...........  While the Tigers are my heart, I will try to follow both leagues, even when they leave the E-8. I get to see Stevens a bit and will learn more about them this year so I can have an AX over there....I am looking forward to the competition in the LL........ also, interested in upcoming recruiting...
I need you guys to give me some solid info next year, since the gang over at the E-8 posts are really on it....... I expect the same here.... Don't expect too much from me however because What do I know