MBB: Liberty League

[magicman]

New NCAA Regional Rankings for games through 2-14-10.
Here is the East Region:

East Region     In-Region Record   Overall Record
1. St. John Fisher 18-4 19-4
2. Medaille 20-2 21-2
3. Oneonta State 17-5 18-5
4. Stevens Institute 17-5 17-5
5. New York University 14-7 15-7
6. Plattsburgh State 13-6 15-7

[platinumondubs]

Here's my list:
COY - Luke Flockerzi, Skidmore
ROY - Stefan Thompson, Hobart
POY - Joey Lokitis, Union

[with age came?]

Went to the Hamilton vs Clarkson game and I can safely say that you are correct Buck about the Hamilton students "giving it" to Ref's and opposing players.  They stand under the basket at one end of the court with a deer head and just roll with it.  It really was entertaining!  I'm a "pretty good heckler" against the refs but I am not even close to being in their league!! Hamilton done in by 2 for 20 from 3 point land and very good interior passing by the Knights.  On the last weekend of the season I believe 4 teams still have a chance at the league title (just insanity). And 6 have a shot at a playoff spot.  (Maybe even 7 as I am not sure of the tie breaks if Hamilton, RPI & Hobart all finish at 7-7 - which I believe is possible if Hobart loses both to RPI & Vassar, RPI loses to Hamilton, & Hamilton also beats Vassar). It might really complicate things if Clarkson ends up at 7 & 7 too by splitting this weekends games with Skidmore and Union.  I am not bright enough to figure it all out. Bottom line is Vassar victory over Hobart is pretty unlikely.  Vassar probably ready to "pack it in" but this season one never knows.

[buck1053]

Here's my list:
COY - Luke Flockerzi, Skidmore
ROY - Stefan Thompson, Hobart
POY - Joey Lokitis, Union

I'd definitely have to agree on Flockerzi, last to currently first. That's hard to beat.

The POY discussion should probably also include Pebole from Hobart. I know he's a sophomore and Lokitis is a senior, but their stats are similar in terms of scoring and rebounding. Lokitis has a better assist average, and probably has the edge since Union has a better record -- before this weekend -- and the fact he's a guard but is only 0.3 rebounds and 0.4 points per game (in league) behind Pebole.

ROY, I think Thompson is the best choice. The only other name I could think of is Union's Donohue with his recent string of good performances, but he started out slow and his numbers aren't that close to Thompson's.

Skidmore's entire offense is drive and kick to Lowry or Altimar.  They won't take it in the paint against RPI's Danny Martin (who should win ROY).

I'm sorry, but Martin shouldn't even be in the conversation. 3.6 point and 3.2 rebounds per game in league play (4.8 ppg and 3.5 rpg overall) doesn't get you in the conversation. This isn't a slam to RPI or Martin's ability either, just an observation. Also, he's averaging 11.4 minutes per game (9th on the team for league play, 10th overall), so he's obviously little more than a quick-hit space filler.

In comparison, Hobart's Thompson has started 22 of their 23 games, is averaging 28.8 minutes per game, 15.5 points, 3.2 assists and 3.0 rebounds overall. In conference play, he's averaging 14.8 ppg and 3.9 apg.

Even Donohue, who I think doesn't stand up to Thompson has better numbers than Martin. He's started 5 of 12 league games, 25.1 minutes per game, 12.7 ppg, 3.9 rpg and 1.7 apg.

Went to the Hamilton vs Clarkson game and I can safely say that you are correct Buck about the Hamilton students "giving it" to Ref's and opposing players.  They stand under the basket at one end of the court with a deer head and just roll with it.  It really was entertaining!  I'm a "pretty good heckler" against the refs but I am not even close to being in their league!!

Hamilton has always been that way, it's probably been tamed down a bit in recent years, and the atmosphere is much more exciting for it. I'm tired of the PC BS these days. Schools like Union must not really care if their teams get crowds, because they do their best to clamp down on any sort of fun students might have at the games. I'm not saying it's necessary to let students throw F-bombs around, but to let them heckle the opposing team and coach, or referees won't hurt anything. That's the beauty of playing at home, or it should be, to have an advantage because of the fans. Or for opposing teams to travel well, to try and mitigate the home court advantage.

[magicman]

Tonight's game results:

St. Lawrence defeats visiting Skidmore 83-65 and takes over sole possession of 1st place.

Hobart downs host RPI 75-67 and ends the Red Hawks' chances for the conference tournament.

Clarkson keeps their playoff hopes alive as they down visiting Union 68- 53

Hamilton beats host Vassar 71-53 in a game that had no bearing on tournament play.   

[with age came?]

Buck - I have only been to a couple of hoop games at Union so I can not speak from vast experience but I did not see an overt amount of "politeness" or "PC" and though I was never looking for ejections - I certainly never saw any???  Went to about a 100 Volleyball games there and I always felt that the crowds were as loud or louder than most places....I can say that I have never been "spoken to" at any Union contest and I have definitely been addressed at other venues- particularly over my "kid gloves" handling of the refs .  Does anyone know the tie-breakers for the LL?  Know that SLU is now in and I believe the #1 seed.  Unless Hobart stumbles badly and loses to Vassar they are in.  Skidmore vs Clarkson is huge tomorrow.  If Skidmore wins they are in.  If Union wins vs SLU they are in.  However if Clarkson wins and Union loses to SLU it leaves Union, Clarkson & Skidmore at 8-6.  Clarkson would own 2 wins vs Skidmore.  Skidmore would own 2 wins over Union & Clarkson and Union would have split. I am assuming that head to head would be the first tie breaker but it might be something else (like victory over the highest seed) in a 3 way tie.

[magicman]

with age,
I think you are correct if it is a 2 team tie. Head to head comes first and then how you fared against the top seed, then the 2nd seed and so on. I believe a 3 team tie would be how you fared against the other 2 teams.

St. Lawrence is in and I think you have to assume that Hobart is in as well. Vassar hasn't been within single digits of a win in 22 straight games. Don't see how tomorrow is any different against Hobart.

So that leaves Clarkson, Union and Skidmore fighting for 2 spots. Clarkson has to win or their done. If they do win then both Clarkson and Skidmore finish at 8-6. If Union wins they are 9-5 and are in. That would leave Clarkson fighting Skidmore for the 4th seed and Clarkson wins because of their 2-0 head to head record against Skidmore.

If Clarkson beats Skidmore and Union loses to SLU, you would then have a 3 way tie and then you compare each team's overall head to head record against the other 2. Clarkson would be 3-1 against Skidmore and Union, Skidmore would be 2-2 against Clarkson and Union, and Union would be 1-3 against Clarkson and Skidmore. Clarkson would then be awarded the 3rd seed. Now Skidmore and Union would fight it out for the 4th seed and would revert back to a tiebreaker for 2 teams which would be head to head and since Skidmore beat Union twice they would be the 4th seed and Union would be out.

I'm not 100% positive that this is how it's done in the Liberty League. I think it is but I may be wrong. I went to the LL home page and checked every link I could and didn't find the league handbook which would explain the tiebreakers. This is how it's done in a number of leagues though.  Good luck tomorrow afternoon against Skidmore. I'll be rooting for you. As I'm sure you know, I'll be taking in  the Plattsburgh-Brockport game tomorrow. I thought it was a showdown for all the marbles between us, but Potsdam's big upset tonight over Port means that Oneonta will probably be glued to the Live Stats on Plattsburgh's website praying for a Golden Eagle win, so they can claim the top seed.  The last 3 times Brockport and Plattsburgh have played its went to overtime. Don't want that to happen on Sat. afternoon. I'd like nothing better that to go from next to last,  last year, to first place this year. And I really want to see 3 extra games right here in Plattsburgh.     

[platinumondubs]

TIM RUPP NAILS A 3 AT THE BUZZER TO BEAT HAMILTON AND SECURE A 7-7 MARK FOR RPI IN LEAGUE PLAY!!!!

[magicman]

St.Lawrence secures the top seed in the playoffs with an 89-73 win over visiting Union. Saints go to 10-4 and will host the Liberty League tournament next Friday and Saturday.

Hobart defeats host Vassar 79-61 and secures the 2nd seed.

Clarkson falls to visiting Skidmore 71-57 and loses the chance to win a berth in the LL tournament. With the win Skidmore secures the 3rd seed in the tournament with a 9-5 conference record and will face off against Hobart in the 1st game at St. Lawrence next Friday. Union despite losing today ends up at 8-6 to wrap up the 4th seed and will face SLU Friday in Canton.

[buck1053]

Hamilton, picked to finish second with two first place votes, ends its season 6-8 in LL play, 10-14 overall. Wow! Think the NESCAC schools are getting excited about the Conts coming?

[magicman]

Hamilton, picked to finish second with two first place votes, ends its season 6-8 in LL play, 10-14 overall. Wow! Think the NESCAC schools are getting excited about the Conts coming?

buck,
Is Hamilton's move to the NESCAC going to occur next year? I thought RIT was joining the Liberty League for next season, but over on the E8 board there was an article stating they had 1 more year in the E8, 2010-2011, and then would join the LL. And when is Bard coming?

[with age came?]

Plagued by inconsistency all season my "Knights" do it again splitting the weekend games and thereby ending their season.  Very difficult to take as they should be better than that.  4 seniors graduate so next season will be even tougher I am afraid.  Skidmore's climb continues as I predicted a long time ago - they did what they had to do - beat Clarkson on its home court on senior night.  My hat is off to them.  3 of last years playoff teams (RPI, Hamilton, & Clarkson) on the outside looking in. As far as Hamilton leaving- I think they would have been about the same place over in the NESCAC - Williams & Middlebury are clearly the superior teams over there and to a lesser extent Colby but the rest were at about Hamilton's speed.  Hamilton will be competitive but will not enjoy the success they had in the Liberty League.  However here in the LL believe me we can not wait for Bard to come aboard.  Number one I love Raptormania and he will be a welcome addition to the board and I doubt at least immediately the Bard team will provide as much competition as Hamilton has in the past.  RIT I think will be a real contender in the league when they join but I still do not understand their bolting from the E-8 (or nine) or whatever number.  So many schools right down the road that create wonderful rivalaries, it just has to be for the hockey, but as fromafar says what do I know?....

[buck1053]

Hamilton, picked to finish second with two first place votes, ends its season 6-8 in LL play, 10-14 overall. Wow! Think the NESCAC schools are getting excited about the Conts coming?

buck,
Is Hamilton's move to the NESCAC going to occur next year? I thought RIT was joining the Liberty League for next season, but over on the E8 board there was an article stating they had 1 more year in the E8, 2010-2011, and then would join the LL. And when is Bard coming?

I also thought the change was coming next season, but apparently it isn't happening until the 2011-2012 season, so there will be one more year of the current configuration.

Also, does anyone else think they should add or cut one more team? I mean, an odd number of teams has been in place for the E8 over the last couple years, but the schedule has been screwy. For example, the last weekend of the season this year featured games on Friday and Sunday ... but none on Saturday. I know there is some travel during the school week, particularly during non-conference play, but once the league season starts it seems like a much better plan to only have two weekday games -- against your travel partner -- and play Friday-Saturday slates.

It also looks like RPI, Skidmore or Union would be the odd team out. These three are all close to each other, and Skidmore and Union have been travel partners. But, RPI has traveled with Vassar, and hour and a half away. However, with Bard joining, they would likely travel with Vassar. And Hobart loses its travel partner in Hamilton, but they are the closest ones to RIT, so they would probably pair up.

I don't know, it seems like the LL kind of goofed things up with the new members.

[buck1053]

RIT I think will be a real contender in the league when they join but I still do not understand their bolting from the E-8 (or nine) or whatever number.  So many schools right down the road that create wonderful rivalaries, it just has to be for the hockey, but as fromafar says what do I know?....

There is no Liberty League hockey, is there? I couldn't find any hockey (other than field hockey) listed on the LL Web site. I know Union, RPI, St. Lawrence and Clarkson all play in the ECAC.

Nonetheless, I also can't understand this move. Perhaps its so they can get away from Fisher and Ithaca in the E8.

[hopefan]

RPI fans or players  -  how about contacting the RPI SID and get the game winning shot over Hamilton on the Buzzer Beater page of this site   -  this midwest alum would sure like to see it....
Thanks.....