MBB: Liberty League

[d3bballlova]

In its first and only chance to earn a W in Liberty League play, Bard successfully defeated Vassar 59-57 behind 27 points from Matt Shubert (in his first game this season). Prior to playing an official Liberty League game, Bard endured much criticism from those familiar with the conference, though not so familiar with the strides the men's basketball program at Bard has taken since Coach Turner's takeover. Throughout the entire summer and even this preseason, Bard's basketball program dealt with many doubting their ability to compete in the Liberty League, let alone win. To many, Bard and winning in the Liberty League were as far apart as the Atlantic and Pacific. People used words such as "tough" and "surprised" when Bard and winning were mentioned in the same sentenced. Ironically, one of the Liberty League's most familiar characters (one of Vassar's own) suggested that Bard would not win a game in its first year of Liberty League competition. In retrospect, his comments were inaccurate and asinine. Not only did Bard win its first Liberty League game but it was at the expense of the school he represents. Perhaps he will think more thoroughly the next time he comments on what another school is capable of during competition.

Though surprising to some, Bard showed up in its first Liberty League game and is well on its way to becoming one of the teams competing for conference championships each year. Clearly, the margin was not very significant, however, a win is win. For a program that has been trying to rebuild itself, this is a huge day in the program's history - probably the biggest within the last six or seven years. Why? Bard basketball passed its first test tonight.  Tonight they led for the entire game and managed to pull it out. More importantly, they did so on the road, in Vassar's gym. In their win tonight, Bard proved that they have some character and toughness, qualities that good teams possess. No one played particularly great but they won. In addition, their Freshman PG, Francis Arnold, struggled, which is something Liberty League opponents will not see very often in the upcoming years.

In no way am I stating that Bard will win the Liberty League this year, however, the time has come - Bard is on the rise. It's victories like these that will allow Bard to recruit more talented players and enhance their program. The coaching and instruction are there, now it's just a matter of putting pieces together that will allow them to compete on both a local and national level. Bard is one the rise!

[OldDanny]

You called it earlier Lova.  This incoming Bard class has the swagger that earlier recruits didn't have.  It sounds like that showed with a big win on the road in the LL.  Good Work Bard!  I'm anxious to see them later in the season!

[airball55]

Vassar, a basketball powerhouse over the previous decade, falls tonight to upstart and national program on the rise Bard Raptors.  Bard, with five preseason Mcdonald's All Americans on their roster, take down the mighty Vassar Brewers who has a national record 89 game home winning streak.  ESPN's Dick Vitale was on hand for the game and had this to say..."Outside of Michigan St. or Kansas I can't think of a tougher road team right now then Bard."

This post is on par with the previous one by D3ballover or whatever the name is.  I would have actually congratulated the Bard Raptors on their victory but all sincerety goes out the window after that post.  You beat Vassar... the mighty Vassar Cadets who last I checked haven't snuck into the top 25 yet.  Give it a rest.  That Vassar win over the Culinary Institute though does bode well for the Raptors... I mean if you can beat the Culinary then...

[with age came?]

Thanks Magic for the info.  Hectic here - away for awhile.  Amazed Bard got its first win in its first game.  Will be surprised if they get more than 4 league wins this season but I have been known to be wrong before.  Know you Hobart but I think Sk,idmore will be just as good and upperclassman talnet will reign.

[d3fan33]

Had an opportunity to watch Bard play...certainly a different attitude than one that I competed against in the early 2000's a more consistent level of player than they were able to attract. I commend Coach Turner in his approach to the way his team played the game, however they still have a long way to go with regard to putting the kind of players on the floor that will be able to compete night in and night out in the Liberty League. They hung in there for quite a while against Skidmore and had an even more challenging effort with Union getting the difference to 27 at one point early in the second half.

I will be interested to see over the next few seasons whether they will be able to attract the kind of players that can put them into the top half of the league on a regular basis, while Bard is a strong liberal arts college academically that does not always translate to athletic success because campus life, student life etc...play a huge role in recruiting student athletes.

[with age came?]

Big game tonight for the Knights against Skidmore.  Skidmore shows it can be beaten by RPI.  What happenned there?   Still thing Skidmore is the team to beat- just edging out Hobart.  Clarkson to their credit could sneak into the playoffs and a 0 & 0 record if they keep playing well.  I'll rely on Magiman for the predictions on games.

[magicman]

Big game tonight for the Knights against Skidmore.  Skidmore shows it can be beaten by RPI.  What happenned there?   Still thing Skidmore is the team to beat- just edging out Hobart.  Clarkson to their credit could sneak into the playoffs and a 0 & 0 record if they keep playing well.  I'll rely on Magiman for the predictions on games.

Clarkson will have all kinds of problems getting into the playoffs with that 0-0 record. And Magiman hasn't been around for about 2012 years.   You need a better proofreader or more accurate fingers, with age. I'm picking Hobart to win the regular season title and get the top seed in the playoffs. Whether they win the playoffs and get the automatic bid is another question, but I think they will be hungrier than the Thoroughbreds this time around after missing the big dance last year.

Regarding tonight's contest I think the Knights will come up a little short and Skidmore will win 74-68.

I'm still waiting for a reply from that personal message I sent you back on December 27th. Don't you read your mail anymore? Or maybe the new format of D3hoops has you stymied? Maybe you didn't get the message?  Please reply.

[with age came?]

Magic got the message but did not know how to reply on d3 so I used the email address I had with the pc in it. You are turning out to be quite the hoops broker!! 

[magicman]

Magic got the message but did not know how to reply on d3 so I used the email address I had with the pc in it. You are turning out to be quite the hoops broker!!

I thought that might be the problem. I got your email and will be sending a reply later today. Sorry your Knights didn't win the other night against Skidmore.

Skidmore took it on the chin last night against Williams. Got behind by double digits in the first half and then in the 2nd half they came back quite a ways to get within 4 points with around 13 minutes to go. Williams went on a 16-0 run at that point and the Thoroughbreds were also rans. Final score was 76-59.

[magicman]

Clarkson defeats Union 82-80 in overtime.

Hobart crushes Vassar 72-40

St. Lawrence beats RPI 100-82

RIT downs Bard 82-51


Modified to correct typo of Clakson score.

[d3bballlova]

Vassar, a basketball powerhouse over the previous decade, falls tonight to upstart and national program on the rise Bard Raptors.  Bard, with five preseason Mcdonald's All Americans on their roster, take down the mighty Vassar Brewers who has a national record 89 game home winning streak.  ESPN's Dick Vitale was on hand for the game and had this to say..."Outside of Michigan St. or Kansas I can't think of a tougher road team right now then Bard."

This post is on par with the previous one by D3ballover or whatever the name is.  I would have actually congratulated the Bard Raptors on their victory but all sincerety goes out the window after that post.  You beat Vassar... the mighty Vassar Cadets who last I checked haven't snuck into the top 25 yet.  Give it a rest.  That Vassar win over the Culinary Institute though does bode well for the Raptors... I mean if you can beat the Culinary then...

Airball55, let's not get crazy here. My post clearly stated, that Bard would not be in contention to win the LL this year. In fact, I think I wrote something along the lines of, "In no way am I stating that Bard will win the Liberty League this year, however, the time has come - Bard is on the rise." Perhaps you should improve your reading comprehension skills before responding to posts so vehemently. I mean, Bard struggled tonight and will continue to this season. Nevertheless, they are building a program there that will be very competitive each year moving forward. Coach Turner has established winning culture, which, if you know anything about the history of the program, is really telling of where they are going.

Yours truly

[with age came?]

Oh Magic - you made my day!!   The Knights win in OT!   RPI and SLU teams are just a puzzlement to me.  I do not understand how RPI can beat Skidmore and then lose that badly to SLU.  Or is it how can SLU play so well to crush an RPI team that beat Skidmore?  It is a puzzlement (ala Yul Brenner)

[airball55]

You must be a Dad.  No problems here.  Re-read your post.  Again, I would have congratulated Bard on their first win in LL play against the perennial bottom feeder if you didn't go off.  No worries though.  Good luck the rest of the way Lova.  Have some fun with this.  IN THEIR FIRST AND ONLY LL CONTEST... AFTER CRITICISM.. etc..   You gloated over a win against Vassar... VASSAR.  How about something along the lines of... Congrats to the Raptors, getting the first ever LL win is something to be proud of.  We know that it will be tough from here on out but you can't take that one away.. something like that.  Be humble man, you beat VASSAR.

[magicman]

Oh Magic - you made my day!!   The Knights win in OT!   RPI and SLU teams are just a puzzlement to me.  I do not understand how RPI can beat Skidmore and then lose that badly to SLU.  Or is it how can SLU play so well to crush an RPI team that beat Skidmore?  It is a puzzlement (ala Yul Brenner)

with age,
Inconsistency is the norm this year in all the NY leagues. Clarkson handles a Potsdam State team that beat Utica College yet the Knights lose to Utica college. St Lawrence beats ranked Oswego State, yet loses to Plattsburgh, Clarkson and a not very good RIT team.
Skidmore hangs with #1 Middlebury yet loses to RPI. And RPI loses to Sage yet turns around and beats Skidmore. I could go on and haven't even brought up all the strtange results in the SUNYAC or E8 conferences. University of Rochester with a #7 D3hoops  preseason ranking is barely out of the basement in the UAA league. They knocked Hamilton and Hobart from the unbeaten ranks in a 4 day span yet couldn't beat Nazareth in two tries. And Naz at home couldn't beat Hobart. Crazy stuff this season.

I've watched a ton of games and one thing I'm seeing is a lot of poor officiating. Way too many close games being decided by a whistle instead of a a buzzer beater or outstanding play. I don't usually complain about the refs because I was a referee myself years ago and I know you can't please all the people, all the time. But some of these guys don't have a clue about a blocking foul or an offensive foul. That's my biggest complaint. That and the inconsistency (there's that word again) with the way some of them call a game. Ticky tack fouls one minute and no call the next when a guy gets hammered. I watched a game last week where, with one tenth of a second left in the game and the score tied, a zebra blows his whistle on a rebound of a missed last second shot. Most officials would let overtime decide the outcome, but this guy must have had a hot date lined up. Naturally the "fouled" player goes to the line, makes the first, misses the second, game over. Last night in a 2 point game with 35 seconds to play and the leading team at the line for a 1 &1, player misses the free throw, team that's trailing grabs the rebound and while the rebounding player is in the air he gets slammed by an opposing player and knocked to the floor, 3 feet from the official. So what does he call? Player's arm hit the out of bounds line, when he was knocked down.Turnover, and now the trailing team has to foul. Lead team makes them both and it's now a 2 possession game with under 30 seconds. Of course they went on to win. Watched your favorite coach's team last week. Down 1 with a minute to go they rebound the opposing team's missed shot. Player drives to the hoop, scores, and is fouled. Wait a minute, ref calls an offensive foul. (clearly was a blocking foul) Now instead of leading by 1 and possibly 2 they are still behind by 1. Leading team comes down works the ball for 10-15 seconds and player drives the lane. Your coach's big man never had to move an inch as the ball handler crashes straight into him. Offensive foul, right? Nope, ref (same ref that called the foul on the other end) calls a blocking foul, player sinks both free throws effectively ending your coach's night. There's always a few missed calls, usually they even out over the course of a game, but you can't even them out when they are made in the closing seconds of a tight contest. Some of these guys should retire as well. I've seen some pretty out of shape, overweight guys chugging up and down the court that can't keep up with the game's pace. I think they're older than I am.

The East Region is wide open this year. The only team that I think will go dancing for sure is Oswego State. Even if they get upset in the SUNYAC tournament I think their record at the end of the regular season will get them a Pool C bid. Everything else is up for grabs.   

[magicman]

Time to make some predictions on the outcome of the League. Maybe it'll get some discussion on this board as it's been relatively quiet this year. This is how I think the regular season will end up.

1.   Hobart     The Statesmen have been my choice to win the top seed since before the opening bell. Nothing in their body of work has changed my opinion. Upset last year in the first round, it probably cost them a shot at a Pool C bid. I don't think they want to rely on that again. I see them hosting the playoffs and winning the automatic bid.

2.   Skidmore    If any team is going to take the Pool A away from Hobart it will be this team. They won the Pool A bid last year but didn't beat Hobart to get it. Hamilton took care of the Statesmen and then The Thoroughbreds took care of Hamilton to go dancing. Skidmore, with that loss to RPI may have to beat Hobart twice to get the top seed. Once, is possible but don't think they'll sweep the Statesmen. So they will need some help, just not sure it they'll get any.

3.  St. Lawrence    SLU is currently a half game behind Clarkson in the standings. The Saints also have to play Skidmore twice and Hobart once more. Clarkson has already played Hobart and Skidmore so they only have two games left against the top pair. Logically it would seem that the Golden Knights have the edge here. Add in the fact that Clarkson has already beaten SLU and that's even more fuel in their fire. So why am I picking the Saints to come in third place? I may be out in left field on this one, but I believe that SLU and Clarkson will both go 0-4  against the top pair. If their is an upset against the top pair I think SLU getting Skidmore in Canton is the best chance of that happening. Clarkson has already lost to Skidmore in Potsdam. That brings me to the 2nd part of the equation. The teams that I think will finish directly beneath SLU and Clarkson. I believe those teams will be RPI and Union. St. Lawrence has already played RPI twice and won both games. They also have a road win against Union. Clakson has to play both RPI and Union on the road and their overtime win against the Dutchmen last night in Potsdam doesn't bode well when they make the trip to Schenectady. Knights get RPI today and still have to make the trip to Troy on the final day of the regular season. And it's entirely possible that the Red Hawks may need that game to make the playoffs themselves. Any team that's got a win over Skidmore and can put up 111 points against Middlebury (what a track meet that game was) can be dangerous at home. Finally the Saints get to play their last 5 games in the friendly confines of Burkman Gym, while the Knights have to play 3 of their last 5 on the road including their final 2 games. If SLU wins the rematch against Clarkson, and they end up tied with say, 10-6 records, I think SLU might win the tiebreaker.

4.  Clarkson     For all of the above reasons.

5.   RPI            The Red Hawks are still in the hunt for a playoff berth. Currently tied with SLU in 4th place they need to finish with a better record than the Saints to claim that position because of their 2 losses to them. They need to root for Clarkson to lose as they will have a better chance of making the playoffs against them. Especially since they get them in Troy for the season finale. Their win over Skidmore gives them a leg up on Clarkson and Union should they finish in a tie with either of those teams and they split their head to head meetings.

6.   Union       The Dutchmen have been an enigma this year. They opened the season losing to Hartwick, 62-61, the E8 champion from last year who returned just about everyone that mattered. Then they reeled off 7 wins in a row, but 4 of those wins came against bottom feeders with a combined 9-53 record. They ended that streak with a win against a decent Hamilton team, to sit at 7-1 entering league play. The team's full of confidence, opening up with 2 league home games, should get off to a good start in LL play right. Wrong! They open with a loss to SLU, well ok it is St. Lawrence, annual contenders for the crown, but they follow that with a loss to Vassar!! At home no less! Now they go to Hobart and just like that they're 0-3. This is eerily similar to their season last year when they opened up with an 8-1 record ( beating 4 of the same teams they did this year during their winning streak) but then right befor league play started they went on a losing streak that carried over into the LL and they ended up losing 8 in a row before a win over Vassar ended that stretch. At least last year ther was a reason for that drastic decline as they lost several of their best players at the start of the 2nd semester. This year that wasn't the case. Just inconsistent. They could still turn things around and challenge for a playoff spot but I don't see that happening. In fact I might have placed them 1 spot to high in my rankings. We'll see.

7.   RIT     I thought before the season began that this newcomer to the league would be in a better position than where I have them spotted. They opened the season with 2 wins over a couple of cupcakes (combined 3-29 record) but then lost 7 out of 9 and the 2 wins were also losing teams. They were welcomed to the league by road losses to RPI and Skidmore but then had their biggest win of the year as they toppled SLU in Rochester. Back to back home losses to Clarkson and Hobart were followed by a win yesterday against Bard. I think the best they end with is a 6-10 conference record and it may not be that good.

8.   Vassar    The Brewers will need to beat Bard to escape the cellar because I don't think they'll beat anyone else. They already have their yearly allotment of upsets with the win over Union. Don't think they thought they'd get upset by Bard. Neither did I.

9.  Bard     Not really expecting the other 1st year member to do much this year. Eyebrows were raised when the news was released that they were joining the league. Going 2-23 last year and 1-17 in the weaker Skyline Conference left many hoop enthusiasts wondering what the conference powers that be, were smoking. Promises were made, recruiting efforts were stepped up, and lo and behold the Raptors win the first Liberty League game they ever play. Is hollywood listening to this? I'm pretty sure those same powers that be, were still lighting, up when they made out this year's schedule. There's a 12.5 % chance that Vassar will be their first league game, but despite those odds, Vassar it was. I think the big shots were looking to shut up all the naysayers that protested Bard's entry over the fact that the League would have a new whipping boy. And so the Raptors started their LL debut in 1st place. Unfortunately they are now in last.  The school does seem to have made an effort to upgrade the basketball program, and it looks like they got some decent recruits. I'm sure that this was something that Liberty League officials were adamant about. It doesn't do the school or the conference any good to have the perennial cellar dweller. The big battle will take place on February 14th in Stevenson Gymnasium when the Raptors host the Brewers for all the marbles. Well all the marbles as far as they're concerned.