MBB: Liberty League

[dcahill44]

Hobart is definetly the best team in this league led by Stefon Thompson and Richie Bonney, also Coach Neer runs a fabulous Offense. If Hobart wins there Conference tournament they could definetly make a run i think. Union i think is the 2nd best team with a great record but a very very unimpressive SOS. They dont have a Signature win and lost to Skidmore and Hobart 2 of the top 3 teams in their conference.

[buck1053]

Hobart is definetly the best team in this league led by Stefon Thompson and Richie Bonney, also Coach Neer runs a fabulous Offense. If Hobart wins there Conference tournament they could definetly make a run i think. Union i think is the 2nd best team with a great record but a very very unimpressive SOS. They dont have a Signature win and lost to Skidmore and Hobart 2 of the top 3 teams in their conference.

I think it's pretty clear Hobart is the top squad in the LL, Richie Bonney has been nasty this season. He's leading the league in scoring and rebounding. Union is hard to figure out, since they lost to Skidmore at home, but then won at Skidmore yesterday to even up their matchup on the season and slide into sole possession of second place.

St. Lawrence is now fourth, behind Skidmore, but they've beaten them once this season and have a second matchup against them coming up. They also play Union coming up, but they've lost to them once this season, so all they can hope to salvage is a split in that series.

The only other teams that I can see as contenders are Clarkson and RPI, but they may not have enough to crack the top 4. The teams that are out of it are RIT (I thought they might compete a little in the LL when they came over from the Empire 8, but they have largely been a non factor), and of course, Bard and Vassar.

I think it will play out that Hobart is first, Union is second, Skidmore is third and St. Lawrence is fourth.

[with age came?]

3 Big wins by my Knights put them right back in position.  Hobart win may be the biggest one as I believe that in the case of a split and even record the victory against the highest seed will determine ties.  Of course Clarkson turned the tables on SLU for a change with road win to split their series.  Really thought that the Dutchmen deserved a least a "sniff" in the top 25 (ie: a vote or two) when they were at 17-3.  Just no love to East at all with the only rep I see is Cortland State and U of R.  Second loss to Hobart probably dooms the league to a single bid unless Hobart (or a surprise team) just nips Union In the title game with Union running the table to only have 4 losses.  Even then there may not be enough quality in the eyes of some.  Hopefully I get get some answers from the game and the "fountain of all knowledge" the Magicman!

[magicman]

3 Big wins by my Knights put them right back in position.  Hobart win may be the biggest one as I believe that in the case of a split and even record the victory against the highest seed will determine ties.  Of course Clarkson turned the tables on SLU for a change with road win to split their series.  Really thought that the Dutchmen deserved a least a "sniff" in the top 25 (ie: a vote or two) when they were at 17-3.  Just no love to East at all with the only rep I see is Cortland State and U of R.  Second loss to Hobart probably dooms the league to a single bid unless Hobart (or a surprise team) just nips Union In the title game with Union running the table to only have 4 losses.  Even then there may not be enough quality in the eyes of some.  Hopefully I get get some answers from the game and the "fountain of all knowledge" the Magicman!

Well, well, well, who is this masked man. Just a couple of weeks to go in the season and he finally makes an appearance. I thought maybe you had left the country or something. You obviously haven't been reading the SUNYAC board or you would have heard me complaining about Union's joke of a schedule. They didn't get a sniff of the Top 25 when they were 17-3 because they didn't deserve it. 4 of my buddies and I could beat half the teams that Union's played this year to get that 17-3 record. To give you an idea of how weak their schedule really is, Massey has them ranked with the 296th worst schedule in the country (out of 412 teams) and it's only that high now because they've played Hobart twice recently. Back when they were 16-2 just prior to the first Hobart game they were ranked with the 332nd worst scedule in D3. If they were in the SUNYAC league this year they would come in about 8th or 9th place and I'm not kidding one bit. To further prove my point the first set of Regional Rankings came out today and Union was nowhere to be found. There's at least 3 other teams that weren't ranked today that are ahead of Union in the pecking order. When was the last time a team in the East from the SUNYAC, Liberty League, Empire 8 or UAA with a 16-3 regional record wasn't ranked? The regional committee I'm sure took one look at Union's Strength of schedule and said no thanks.

We've spoken in the past about comments that one or more of the 3 major NYS leagues was having a down year and usually we've been in agreement that many of those comments were coming from posters that didn't have a clue. This year however the LIberty League is having a down year. An awful lot of talent graduated last year from the league and it's showing up all over the place. Your Golden Knights with a decent record are guilty of the same crime as Union. Their strength of schedule is presently #304, worse than Union's and like Union they are nowhere to be found in the regional rankings. Clarkson lost to Potsdam by a dozen points and Potsdam is in 8th place in our conference and won't finish any higher than that. St Lawrence went 0-4 against the YAC this year and also lost to Potsdam. Their 4 losses were against the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 8th place team in the YAC. The Liberty League's overall record against the SUNYAC was 1-10 and the 1 win was by Skidmore over the last place team Oneonta (2-19) by 3 points, 66-63. The league did have some success against the E8 but most of the wins were the top of the LL  beating up on the bottom the E8. Hobart beat Nazareth and Hartwick, middle of the pack E8 teams, but lost to co-leader Ithaca, and in Geneva, to 6th place Buffalo State in the YAC. The League will only get one bid this year and it doesn't matter who wins the tournament. I just don't see Hobart getting an at large bid if they get upset in the tournament. The regional rankings out today has Hobart in 5th place. Barely ahead of 6th place Geneseo. I think Plattsburgh is in 7th, Oswego is in 8th and Ithaca is in 9th. Any or all of those 4 teams could leap over Hobart if they suffer another loss. I think the SUNYAC and the E8 could get 2 teams in but don't think that the LL will be as fortunate. It's possible if Hobart wins out and loses in the finals of the LL tournament they might squeek out a bid as that would give them a record of 20-7. Depending on what the top seeds in the other conferences do may allow them to sneak in, so I won't rule them out completely. I will rule out every other team in the LL though. Union and Clarkson won't get in unless they win the automatic bid. Their SOS just won't allow it and that's a result of their poor scheduling. For years Clarkson has always played Plattsburgh in a non-conference match up. All of a sudden this year they didn't want to play us. So they replaced Plattsburgh, a team with one of the best SOS's in the East region, with a cupcake.  Clarkson could finish 21-6 if they run the table and lose in the LL finals and then they will say hello to the ECAC's. You get what you pay for!!

I thought I posted last night about the Hobart-Union game along with the standings but remembered I had a computer problem with my connection. I saved my writeup but forgot to post it later on. So I'll post it after I finish this one.

Drop me a personal message with your phone number so I can give you a call and touch base. It's been a long time since we've spoken.       

[magicman]

Quite a ballgame Tuesday night in Geneva as Hobart wins a double overtime thriller against Union 85-82 to complete a seaspn sweep of the Dutchmen and put a big hurt on any chance they may have had to get the number 1 seed. Down 2 games in the loss column Union would now need the Statesmen to lose 3 of their remaining 5 games since Hobart also owns the tiebreaker. With 3 of Hobart's remaining games against the 3 bottom teams in the conference I don't see 3 losses in the Statesmen's future. Plus their two toughest games left against Clarkson and SLU are both in Geneva. I think they finish at the worst 4-1 and possibly will run the table to end up with a 15-1 league record (19-6 overall). If someone other than Hobart wins the LIberty League tournament they will have to do it in Bristol gym.

Hobart trailed from the 10 minute mark of the first period and never caught the Dutchmen until they tied the game at 70 on a free throw by Stefan Thompson with 12 seconds left in regulation. Hobart played some good defense on Union's final possession and the Dutchmen never got a shot off which sent the game into overtime. In OT neither team could do much in the first 2:42 until Union finally got a layup by Matt Petrone. The Dutchmen added 2 free throws after a Hobart miss to go up by 4 points, 74-70 with 1:25 left. 10 seconds later Hobart's Connor Rehbaum hit a big 3 pointer and after a Union turnover Thompson hit a pair of free throws with 45 ticks left to give Hobart their first lead since midway through the 1st half at 75-74. It was short lived one however, as Petrone put the Dutchmen back in front with another layup and one, 24 seconds later. With only 21 seconds left to play Hobart once again turned to Thompson for more heroics and he came through with a jumper with 8 seconds left to tie it again. Union's final attempt from the corner hit the side of the backboard and to double overtime they went. Once again Union got on the board first, as big man Kevin Donohue scored on a layup, but Hobart's Rehbaum one upped him with another trifecta to put Hobart up by 1. After both teams misfired Donohue tied the game with 1 of 2 free throws and after another Hobart misfire, Donohue was fouled again and made both to give Union an 82-80 lead with a minute left to play. Who else but Thompson woud put the dagger in the Dutchmen as he buried a three with 34 seconds left. Union came down and worked the ball to Petrone but he missed a layup and fouled Hobart's Rehbaum on the rebound attempt. Rehbaum made them both with 7 seconds left and Union had an off balance 3 point attempt to tie it at the buzzer but came up short.

Stefan Thompson had a career high 30 points and 5 asists to lead Hobart in both categories. Richie Bonney had 16 points but fouled out near the end of regulation, shifting more of the scoring load onto Thompson. Joe Gibbons had 14 points and 6 rebounds. Connor Rehbaum totaled 11 points with 7 rebounds and 8 of those points came after Bonney fouled out. In fact after Bonney fouled out with 1:11 left in regulation the Statesmen scored 18 points from that point until the end of the game, 10 by Thompson and 8 by Rehbaum. Sean Peer only scored 2 points but in his best Dennis Rodman impersonation grabbed 17 rebounds and was personally responsible for Hobart winning the battle off the glass 43-32. Rezin Davis had 8 points and 4 assists with a pair of 3 pointers off the bench.

Union was led by Kevin Donohue with a double-double of 28 points and 12 rebounds. Terell Winney had 13 points, 2 steals and 2 rebounds. Joe Mason added 12 points 5 rebounds and 6 assists.

For a game that was 50 minutes in length there were relatively few turnovers as Union only had 9 and Hobart even less with 8.

It was a night of records for Hobart as well. Coach Mike Neer became only the 14th coach in Division III history to reach 600 career wins with the victory and is currently in 6th place among active coaches in career wins.

Thompson's 30 point night put him over the 1500 career points mark (1527). He became the 7th player in Hobart history to accomplish that feat.

Bonney's 16 points gave him a total of 1001 career points as he became the 25 Statesman to achieve that mark.

I'm sure it was extra special that they could accomplish these records in a hard fought win against their closest pursuer.

In other league action on Tuesday night:

RPI defeated visiting Vassar 85-76 to improve to 6-5 in league play

St. Lawrence traveled to Skidmore and in a mild upset beat the 3rd place Thoroughbreds 67-61. The Saints have now pulled even with Skidmore in the loss column at 7-5 and only trail by a half game as Skidmore stands at 8-5 with a game in hand.

Here are the complete league standings since the ones on the D3hoops team pages aren't updated because some SID's aren't turning in their team's scores. It's gonna be a dogfight for those 2nd, 3rd and 4th seeds over the next 10 days between Union, Skidmore, Clarkson, SLU and RPI. I know Hobart will be the 1 seed, but the rest are still up for grabs.

2012-13 Men's Standings


Hobart                10-1      14-6
Union                  9-3       17-4
Skidmore              8-5       14-8
Clarkson              7-4       15-5
St.  Lawrence       7-5       9-12
RPI                      6-5       11-9
Vassar                 3-9       7-14
Rochester Tech     2-9       6-14
Bard                    1-12     4-16

If I had to guess what the final regular season standings might look like I'd go with this.

1   Hobart      15-1
2   Union        12-4
3   Clarkson    10-6** 
4   Skidmore   10-6
5   SLU          9-7
6   RPI           7-9
7    it
8   doesn't
9   matter

**Clarkson wins their game against Skidmore on Feb. 12th to split the season series. The Knights win the tiebreaker and the 3rd seed by virtue of their victory over top seeded Hobart.

             

[with age came?]

Hey Magic!   Very illuminating!   I knew that the my Knights schedule out of the league was pretty weak but I thought the win over Ithaca gave them some credibility.  Without question the YAC is the beast of the east in d3 however I don't think the e-8 is that much ahead or behind for that matter the Liberty League.  Your points as always are dead spot on about the schedules.  Sometimes I think that coaches think they need to "pad their record" a little bit to get recognition but true recognition comes from beating quality teams not the bottom dwellers. Always liked RPI for that fact as they take a shot at some quality teams every year.  They may get whipped but they take their shot!

[with age came?]

After tonight what a "logjam"  Hobart and probably Union are in but Skidmore at 8-5 Clarkson and RPI at 7-5 and SLU at 7-6 - that leaves 2 spots up for grabs as they all seem to be playing each other.  Think the next 2 games decide my Knights fate _ RPI tomorrow and Skidmore on Tuesday - both at home. C'mon Knights !  Do the work!!

[magicman]

Hey Magic!   Very illuminating!   I knew that the my Knights schedule out of the league was pretty weak but I thought the win over Ithaca gave them some credibility.  Without question the YAC is the beast of the east in d3 however I don't think the e-8 is that much ahead or behind for that matter the Liberty League.  Your points as always are dead spot on about the schedules.  Sometimes I think that coaches think they need to "pad their record" a little bit to get recognition but true recognition comes from beating quality teams not the bottom dwellers. Always liked RPI for that fact as they take a shot at some quality teams every year.  They may get whipped but they take their shot!

The coaches that do this took a course at Syracuse called "Jim Boeheim Schedule Planning 101"...subtitled  "How to Schedule 10 Cupcakes to Obtain a Natonal Ranking". (Just call the coaches of Wagner, Princeton, Colgate, Eastern Michigan, Long Beach State, Monmouth, Canisius, Detroit, Alcorn State, and Central Connecticut.   

Coaches from the East Region that signed up for the course this year were Union, Clarkson and Oswego State. They all aced the course.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Coaches from the East Region that signed up for the course this year were Union, Clarkson and Oswego State. They all aced the course.

And they aced the course how? I don't remember any of these teams getting any national ranking .

[magicman]

Coaches from the East Region that signed up for the course this year were Union, Clarkson and Oswego State. They all aced the course.

And they aced the course how? I don't remember any of these teams getting any national ranking .

They aced the course by scheduling all those cupcakes they faced. Fortunately the voters of the D3 Top 25 didn't fall for those shenanigans and took their SOS for what it was...very poor.

[buck1053]

So, I was looking at the regional rankings and the Massey ratings and I was curious about how that all shook out, as the Massey ratings have some teams higher than others, while the regional rankings don't reflect that same lineup. I'm assuming it's because the ratings are through this weekend's games and the rankings came out before that.

EAST                  
1   Rochester (N.Y.)   18-1   19-1         
2   SUNY Cortland   17-2   17-3         
3   Stevens Institute of Technology   15-3   17-3         
4   New York University   13-7   13-7         
5   Hobart   12-6   13-6         
6   SUNY Geneseo   14-6   14-7

Now, U of R is 20-2, having gone 1-1 since the rankings came out. Of course, the loss is out of region, against Wash U today, and the win is out of region as well, correct?
Cortland is 19-3, two wins in region
Stevens is 20-3, with their three wins all in region
NYU is 13-9, both of their losses were out of region, right?
Hobart is 16-6, their three wins are in region
Geneseo is 14-9, and both of their losses were in region.

Now, according to the latest Massey ratings, through Feb. 9, the top 10 teams in East, I believe (don't shoot me if I'm wrong, I don't usually try to figure such things out, but I was curious so I gave it a shot. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, though) are:

1) U of R (Massey rating 6, sure to drop with today's loss by 19)
2) Cortland (21)
3) Stevens (48)
4) Hobart (60)
5) Union (74)
6) NYU (75)
7) Plattsburgh (78)
8) Oswego (87)
9) Ithaca (103)
10) Brockport (107)

Geneseo, which was sixth in the regional rankings, was 12th in the East in the Massey ratings at 128, behind Buffalo State which was rated 122nd.

I'm assuming the next regional rankings will have the same top 5, though, since U of R and NYU's games were out of region, right? And my other question is who the 6th team will be in the next rankings? I mean, according to Massey, it would be Union, but since their schedule strength is low, wouldn't Plattsburgh or Oswego seem more likely to get into the top 6?

Again, just curious how this is all shaking out. I appreciate the enlightenment from the much more informed board members.

[7express]

Conference games are all in region I thought.  So Rochester's loss to Wash U (and win vs. Chicago) count as in-region.

[magicman]

So, I was looking at the regional rankings and the Massey ratings and I was curious about how that all shook out, as the Massey ratings have some teams higher than others, while the regional rankings don't reflect that same lineup. I'm assuming it's because the ratings are through this weekend's games and the rankings came out before that.

EAST                  
1   Rochester (N.Y.)   18-1   19-1         
2   SUNY Cortland   17-2   17-3         
3   Stevens Institute of Technology   15-3   17-3         
4   New York University   13-7   13-7         
5   Hobart   12-6   13-6         
6   SUNY Geneseo   14-6   14-7

Now, U of R is 20-2, having gone 1-1 since the rankings came out. Of course, the loss is out of region, against Wash U today, and the win is out of region as well, correct?
Cortland is 19-3, two wins in region
Stevens is 20-3, with their three wins all in region
NYU is 13-9, both of their losses were out of region, right?
Hobart is 16-6, their three wins are in region
Geneseo is 14-9, and both of their losses were in region.

Now, according to the latest Massey ratings, through Feb. 9, the top 10 teams in East, I believe (don't shoot me if I'm wrong, I don't usually try to figure such things out, but I was curious so I gave it a shot. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, though) are:

1) U of R (Massey rating 6, sure to drop with today's loss by 19)
2) Cortland (21)
3) Stevens (48)
4) Hobart (60)
5) Union (74)
6) NYU (75)
7) Plattsburgh (78)
8) Oswego (87)
9) Ithaca (103)
10) Brockport (107)

Geneseo, which was sixth in the regional rankings, was 12th in the East in the Massey ratings at 128, behind Buffalo State which was rated 122nd.

I'm assuming the next regional rankings will have the same top 5, though, since U of R and NYU's games were out of region, right? And my other question is who the 6th team will be in the next rankings? I mean, according to Massey, it would be Union, but since their schedule strength is low, wouldn't Plattsburgh or Oswego seem more likely to get into the top 6?

Again, just curious how this is all shaking out. I appreciate the enlightenment from the much more informed board members.

buck.
See my post on the SUNYAC board in reply to your question.

Also see my post on the East Region Rankings to answer any questions you may have about what constitues a regional game.

[OldDanny]

Hobart knocked off RIT tonight to move to 13 - 1 in the LL.  There may have been more league teams at certain times in the past, so this may be wrong, but I think if they win both of their games this weekend they will have the most season wins in Liberty League history!  Certainly not a easy weekend though.  Good Luck Statesmen!!

[ITH radio]

Tuned in last night to hear Ted Baker call the Hobart and Clarkson game. 

Statesmen lead for most of the contest with four players getting double digit points.  Thompson lead all scorers with 22.

The win was Hobart's 10th straight which set a team record and locked up the regular season LL title for the Statesmen.

A recap is below:

http://hwsathletics.com/news/2013/2/15/HBB_0215135814.aspx