MBB: Liberty League

[stlawus]

The old adage of "it's hard to beat a team 3 times in one season" came to fruition tonight with RPI upsetting the Bombers at the bulb.  Ithaca played right into RPI's hands defensively.  Not sure about the foul strategy by the Bombers at the end.  A great run for that group.  They graduate four 5th year players who all had great careers.  Seems like 2 seniors on this team will be back for a 5th next year.

I had that game streaming from my phone as I of course was at Burkman tonight for the other semi final.  What a phenomenal game and excellent representation of division III basketball.  15 ties and 6 lead changes with back and forth action most of the night.  Percentages were going to favor SLU in the 2nd half as Trent Adamson missed about 5 wide open layups in the first half and the Saints went into the break 0 for from 3.  The crowd was definitely the best I can remember since the Saints hosted a first round pod in 2009.  Crowd was just as loud and raucous tonight as it was that weekend.   

I really feel for Jackson Meshanic.  He put everything he had left into that game.  He looked like he got injured the 2nd play of the 2nd half and he fought through it making step back after step back.  What a great career for who should be the Liberty League player of the year this season.   After the game it was hard seeing him coming to grips with acknowledging the end of his Hobart playing days, but I commend him for his career and being such a pleasure to watch the past 5 years.  Well played to the Statesmen. 

RPI will be wanting to put that old adage to the test again as SLU won both regular season matchups. The Saints will need to play a perfect game, the Engineers have got a taste and now want the whole thing.

[Bartman]

The old adage of "it's hard to beat a team 3 times in one season" came to fruition tonight with RPI upsetting the Bombers at the bulb.  Ithaca played right into RPI's hands defensively.  Not sure about the foul strategy by the Bombers at the end.  A great run for that group.  They graduate four 5th year players who all had great careers.  Seems like 2 seniors on this team will be back for a 5th next year.

I had that game streaming from my phone as I of course was at Burkman tonight for the other semi final.  What a phenomenal game and excellent representation of division III basketball.  15 ties and 6 lead changes with back and forth action most of the night.  Percentages were going to favor SLU in the 2nd half as Trent Adamson missed about 5 wide open layups in the first half and the Saints went into the break 0 for from 3.  The crowd was definitely the best I can remember since the Saints hosted a first round pod in 2009.  Crowd was just as loud and raucous tonight as it was that weekend.   

I really feel for Jackson Meshanic.  He put everything he had left into that game.  He looked like he got injured the 2nd play of the 2nd half and he fought through it making step back after step back.  What a great career for who should be the Liberty League player of the year this season.   After the game it was hard seeing him coming to grips with acknowledging the end of his Hobart playing days, but I commend him for his career and being such a pleasure to watch the past 5 years.  Well played to the Statesmen. 

RPI will be wanting to put that old adage to the test again as SLU won both regular season matchups. The Saints will need to play a perfect game, the Engineers have got a taste and now want the whole thing.

Great summary of 2 fantastic games. I was hoping that Jackson Mechanic's final game would be played in Geneva Sunday for a LL title, and it was so close to happening. Congratulations to the Saints for getting another OT win over Hobart, as neither team quit all night. RPI had a big lead on the Bombers but they fought back valiantly, however, the better coached team won the day as RPI showed great poise down the stretch, especially nailing foul shots while Ithaca fans were allowed to swirl jackets and towels just under the basket practically on the baseline.It should be a great FINAL game in SLUTown. I'm expecting another close exciting game to end this uber competitive LL season.

[saint_forever]

Was at the game in Burkman. I would be surprised to know of another atmosphere in D3 better than that last night. Proper fan sections cheering for their team. Should be another madhouse on Sunday. RPI will be playing SLU and their fans.

[stlawus]

Defensive showdown today at Burkman.  Looked like SLU was going to run away with it in the 2nd half but RPI held SLU scoreless for the final 8:30 of regulation.  SLU returned the favor by shutting RPI out in overtime.  Between the end of the first half and overtime SLU held RPI scoreless the final 10:30.   Great game, even better atmosphere.  SLU have been Massey underdogs in 7 of their last 8 games and won all of them.  This team also loves playing overtime.   

Credit to the Engineers for a great season.  They are one of the best defensive teams in the country for a reason.  Very well coached and well disciplined.   If Dom Black makes the front end of the 1-and-1 in overtime to make it a one possession game it might have resulted in a different outcome, but that's the benefit of playing at home with a first round bye.  If the roles were reversed Black makes that most times. 

Very happy to see the Saints extend their season. 13 years since the last league championship.  Not bad for a team picked to finish 6th.

 

[Bartman]

A fitting ending to the LL season, with an OT win by the Saints over RPI, the most disciplined team in the LL. The SLU fans were so lucky to not only win, but have both playoff OT wins on their court. D3 basketball at its absolute best, just playing for the love of the game. Good luck to the Saints in the NCAA tournament.

[stlawus]

I thought SLU would get sent to Rowan or Stockton and to the land of the Ospreys they go.  Doesn't get any easier with UMW, but hopefully we get a good game!

[UfanBill]

So as expected the LL did not sniff an at large, Pool C,  tournament bid. I'm not claiming anyone earned one BUT...

Three weeks ago (2/10) I uncovered what I thought was an abnormality and potential head scratcher. It involved the Regional Rankings and how one conference, the UAA had numerous teams ranked thus opening the door for them to have multiple teams picked as Pool C participants. I just checked the tourney bracket and sure enough in addition to the UAA champion Case Western Reserve they also had 4 additional teams make the field....NYU,Emory,Washington U and Rochester.  Of course the one that jumps out to Liberty League fans is the Yellowjackets, somehow chosen despite their 6-8 league record and the fact that they lost 6 of their last 9 games!  BTW in games versus LL opponents this season Rochester was 1-1 beating Ithaca and losing to Hobart. Do you have a comment Bartman?

[thebear]

I'm stuck at home on medical recovery so have a bit of time on my hands.

Apparently this NCAA committee [of which U of R's coach is a member, but has to sit out when his team is at the table] has been told to consider the entire body of work, not "how you are doing lately"?

They were 6-8 in the UAA, but 10-1 against their non-conference schedule which included a couple of wins over teams in the tournament [Neutral vs. St. John Fisher,  Home vs Middlebury] but also had that loss at Hobart.  They played Geneseo, St. John Fisher, Nazareth, Hobart, Ithaca, and RIT from Region 3.

In total AQ & Pool C, New York State had 10 of the 64 teams in the tournament.

Oswego St, Rochester, Utica, NYU, Hamilton, St John Fisher, St Lawrence, SUNY Delhi, Baruch & Farmingdale St

I suspect they were one of the last Pool C teams in the field.

[stlawus]

I'm stuck at home on medical recovery so have a bit of time on my hands.

Apparently this NCAA committee [of which U of R's coach is a member, but has to sit out when his team is at the table] has been told to consider the entire body of work, not "how you are doing lately"?

They were 6-8 in the UAA, but 10-1 against their non-conference schedule which included a couple of wins over teams in the tournament [Neutral vs. St. John Fisher,  Home vs Middlebury] but also had that loss at Hobart.  They played Geneseo, St. John Fisher, Nazareth, Hobart, Ithaca, and RIT from Region 3.

In total AQ & Pool C, New York State had 10 of the 64 teams in the tournament.

Oswego St, Rochester, Utica, NYU, Hamilton, St John Fisher, St Lawrence, SUNY Delhi, Baruch & Farmingdale St

I suspect they were one of the last Pool C teams in the field.

No matter how much folks insist that this has no influence, I will never believe it and there is literally nothing you can say to convince me otherwise.  Just because he's not in the room doesn't mean there isn't at the very least some psychological influence on the rest of the committee.  Don't try to wiz on my leg and tell me it's raining. 

[ronk]

 And, even prior to the Pool C selections that you are discussing, the RAC for region 3 had 4 of its 5 members seemingly affected by what that regional ranking would be, which is keystone to the subsequent pool C deliberations. Only the rep from Union would have been unaffected by the deliberation; did he do the regional ranking by himself? I emailed this question to Hoopsville but it wasn't voiced to the committee chair Sunday or Monday.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

And, even prior to the Pool C selections that you are discussing, the RAC for region 3 had 4 of its 5 members seemingly affected by what that regional ranking would be, which is keystone to the subsequent pool C deliberations. Only the rep from Union would have been unaffected by the deliberation; did he do the regional ranking by himself? I emailed this question to Hoopsville but it wasn't voiced to the committee chair Sunday or Monday.

As I understand it, typically RACs consider 2 or 3 teams at a time, not the whole slate.

[ronk]

And, even prior to the Pool C selections that you are discussing, the RAC for region 3 had 4 of its 5 members seemingly affected by what that regional ranking would be, which is keystone to the subsequent pool C deliberations. Only the rep from Union would have been unaffected by the deliberation; did he do the regional ranking by himself? I emailed this question to Hoopsville but it wasn't voiced to the committee chair Sunday or Monday.

As I understand it, typically RACs consider 2 or 3 teams at a time, not the whole slate.

Yes, even if so, any combo of 2 or 3 teams would affect all but 1 of the RAC members; arguing for any team would be an argument against your own team. I don't have in a dog in this fight; my school has an AQ. Just wondering about the procedure and consistent application of the procedure for all of D3, men and women.

[names jaismith]

I've said this elsewhere.  The process for selecting Pool C is dumb. Use conference tournaments (+UAA champ) to guarantee every conference access.  After that some reliable statistical measure like Massey to pick Pool C.  Not perfect but it would be a way better tournament

[thebear]

Actually Drew Pasteur has done this exact thing, He's a stats professor at Wooster, he used Snyder, D3Hoops, and Massey and then applies his own statistical methods [ELO, margin of victory etc.]

I believe he got 19 of 20 Pool C's right this year, even with the upsets in conference tournaments, only miss was picking Guilford over U of R for what was probably the last pool C team. 

The D3 Hoops gang on their show picked Rochester as did the committee and also got 19 of 20 right.

I think the committee did a fairly good job this year on Pool C, esp with the conference tournament upsets.

That being said, it must be a tough pill for Guilford with three of their losses to the #1 seed by 13, 3, and 7 points, and all of their 6 D3 losses to top 50 teams who are in the tournament.  They also played D-I Davidson in a game that was not considered an exhibition. Rochester had some really bad in conference losses late in the season. Guilford also beat Emory, who swept Rochester, which for some reason the committee overlooked.

Watching the tournament since the 1960's - The D-I committee clearly uses a "what have you done lately" method of looking at Bubble teams, but apparently the D-3 committee looks at the whole body of work, including early season results before a team may have "jelled".

[SpringSt7]

Drew Pasteur's Pool C picks are a prediction of who the committee will pick and uses their primary criteria in doing so. To the best of my knowledge, he hasn't come out and said that the committee's selection process is the best way to do so.