MBB: Liberty League

[shooters]

Here we go again with the coaching at Hamilton. Give it a rest already! Woot you clearly are going to say that every team that plays Hamilton has a better coach, or out coached Hamilton or Anderson can't do this or that. Wesleyan must have some talent to go in and beat Williams. Apparently in the last two wins (Utica and Wesleyan) Hamilton won when they were down at half. Bad coaches lose close games, they don't continually win them. In both contests you claim Hamilton was out coached. If that was true then where are the Ws for the other teams? You have now stated that in both games Hamilton was out coached. Now when i hear or use the words "out coached" they always seem to go along with victory. I dont ever hear a winning coach after victory going "man we were out coached this evening" I never hear an annoucer going "I tell you what it was a good victory but they were out coached the entire game" Now when teams lose I hear it all the time. Second year in a row Hamilton starts off with five wins and the coaching is always a problem. 23-5 last year and 5-0 this year already. Clearly you have some bitterness at the coaching at Hamilton. I suspect the coach cut you or you are a Murphy guy. Either way lets go forward and let the results speak for themselves, and I thought they did last year? How many 20 win seasons does Hamilton have to have to validate the program? Lets concentrate on the basketball, the players, and the match ups. What kind of person can honestly state that after a team is 5-0 that they are going to lose a lot of games this year? I don't issue the karma on this site but i'd put you in the negative already!

[JQV]

Here we go again with the coaching at Hamilton. Give it a rest already! Woot you clearly are going to say that every team that plays Hamilton has a better coach, or out coached Hamilton or Anderson can't do this or that. Wesleyan must have some talent to go in and beat Williams. Apparently in the last two wins (Utica and Wesleyan) Hamilton won when they were down at half. Bad coaches lose close games, they don't continually win them. In both contests you claim Hamilton was out coached. If that was true then where are the Ws for the other teams? You have now stated that in both games Hamilton was out coached. Now when i hear or use the words "out coached" they always seem to go along with victory. I dont ever hear a winning coach after victory going "man we were out coached this evening" I never hear an annoucer going "I tell you what it was a good victory but they were out coached the entire game" Now when teams lose I hear it all the time. Second year in a row Hamilton starts off with five wins and the coaching is always a problem. 23-5 last year and 5-0 this year already. Clearly you have some bitterness at the coaching at Hamilton. I suspect the coach cut you or you are a Murphy guy. Either way lets go forward and let the results speak for themselves, and I thought they did last year? How many 20 win seasons does Hamilton have to have to validate the program? Lets concentrate on the basketball, the players, and the match ups. What kind of person can honestly state that after a team is 5-0 that they are going to lose a lot of games this year? I don't issue the karma on this site but i'd put you in the negative already!

Without knowing woot's motivation or, really, anything about Hamilton's coach, I'll just add that winning games doesn't always mean good coaching.  Coach's get a lot of unfair criticism for losses but, also get a lot of undue credit for wins.  It is perfectly plausible for a coach to get outcoached and win a game because he has superior talent.

As I said, I don't know anything about the Hamilton Coach or what he did in any of these games.  I will also add, in the interest of full disclosure, that Coach Murphy recruited me and I always had a lot of respect for him.  All that said, I am not sure you necessarily refuted woot's criticism of the coaching staff simply by pointing out that the team won the game.

[shooters]

jose,

I understand that my point might not be the greatest one on this board, i just get sick of hearing this crap about Hamilton's coach on and on and on. I mean I ask about Wesleyan and i get this crap about how they have no ability whatsoever but they play hard for their coach and play with heart and team basketball and well coached. And then where does that lead us....to this the Hamilton players have no respect for coach Anderson and they don't like him. No offense to anyone but it sounds like my second grader coming in from recess and not getting picked first for kickball. Players transfer in to play for this guy, not transfer away. Vega transferred from Lemoyne to Clarkson when Anderson was there and thats D2 to D3(and Clarkson none the less). Jones and Valenti transferred from Clarkson to Hamilton and last time I checked Jones is still on the squad. Rogers transferred from Conn. College to play for Anderson. I find it very odd that this guy wins, and wins no matter where he goes, and this one salty guy posts on here that Hamilton is on the verge of collapsing and none of the players respect the coach and blah blah blah. I have not met the coach but I know of his record and reputation at Five Star. And for the record I was not saying anything negative about Murphy, just that I know the first year on here after Murphy left there was a lot of hostility on the posts, hence the reference. In short, I wish we could talk about basketball. How did Wesleyan match up w/ Hamiton? What were their styles? Who played well? Are they young or a team of seniors? How effective was the press? How did Hamilton's freshman guards play? Can Wesleyan make a move against the powerhouses in their conference? What to expect next year?

No one on here posts: Did they play with heart? Did they respect their coach? Please capture the mood of each player and how he feels about his respective coach? Are the players and coach getting along and if so are there regular team outings and how many players sit with coach during these outings? If a joke is told, who tells it? Who is the first to laugh and whose laughs are genuine and whose are for courtesy?

[JQV]

jose,

I understand that my point might not be the greatest one on this board, i just get sick of hearing this crap about Hamilton's coach on and on and on. I mean I ask about Wesleyan and i get this crap about how they have no ability whatsoever but they play hard for their coach and play with heart and team basketball and well coached. And then where does that lead us....to this the Hamilton players have no respect for coach Anderson and they don't like him. No offense to anyone but it sounds like my second grader coming in from recess and not getting picked first for kickball. Players transfer in to play for this guy, not transfer away. Vega transferred from Lemoyne to Clarkson when Anderson was there and thats D2 to D3(and Clarkson none the less). Jones and Valenti transferred from Clarkson to Hamilton and last time I checked Jones is still on the squad. Rogers transferred from Conn. College to play for Anderson. I find it very odd that this guy wins, and wins no matter where he goes, and this one salty guy posts on here that Hamilton is on the verge of collapsing and none of the players respect the coach and blah blah blah. I have not met the coach but I know of his record and reputation at Five Star. And for the record I was not saying anything negative about Murphy, just that I know the first year on here after Murphy left there was a lot of hostility on the posts, hence the reference. In short, I wish we could talk about basketball. How did Wesleyan match up w/ Hamiton? What were their styles? Who played well? Are they young or a team of seniors? How effective was the press? How did Hamilton's freshman guards play? Can Wesleyan make a move against the powerhouses in their conference? What to expect next year?

No one on here posts: Did they play with heart? Did they respect their coach? Please capture the mood of each player and how he feels about his respective coach? Are the players and coach getting along and if so are there regular team outings and how many players sit with coach during these outings? If a joke is told, who tells it? Who is the first to laugh and whose laughs are genuine and whose are for courtesy?

The guy probably takes some unfair heat.  Whenever a legend like Murphy gets shown the door in an unceremonious fashion whomever replaces him is going to get blamed for that undeservedly.  Just ask Ron Zook.

[Hoaf]

Actually, Woot is pretty much on target. After talking to the guys on the team after the win versus Wesleyan they were pretty upset with Tobin. Wesleyan played a good game but they are a team that should have been blown out by Hamilton. Wesleyan had no game or any star player. There best scorer was on the bench the whole game and Hamilton barely held on for the win.

If you want to talk about basketball. Harlee Wood had an incredible game. He had a career-high 21 points and was the only one that kept Hamilton close while TK was on the bench. As the Hamilton announcer says, "Hooray for Harlee Wood!".

But my perspective on Tobin's coaching style during the game. I think he wanted to get as many kids in the game as possible and see if they could score and play well. He played lots of kids that normally don't get much playing time. I think he expected to be able to easily beat Wesleyan even with his bench players. I'm just glad that we came out of a sloppy game with a win.

Go Blue!

[woot returns]

hey shooters,
Its easy for tobin to win when he has one of the best players in dIII basketball on his team (TK)  that murphy recruited and a two potential all americans in giorgi and ray (also recruited by murphy). the reason why jones and valenti transferred was to play with two of the best players in the eastern conference at the time in welchons and tk. Tobin is extremely manipulative and promises many things to players he recuits.  If hamilton continues to do well two years from now then i will get on my knees an beg for your forgiveness, shooters

[JQV]

Tobin is extremely manipulative and promises many things to players he recuits.

Not sure if you are an ex-player or not but this about describes the entire college recruiting process.  I mean, that is how you get kids to choose school A over school B when it is close...right?

[woot returns]

as for wesleyan, some kid named jimmy sheperd kept hitting threes and the team was pretty goofy all around.

[Hoaf]

well put.

[slickyquick]

Regardless of what opionons of Tobin are, he has been getting it done. He did well while he was at Clarkson and has done pretty well at Hamilton. He is in a tough situation at Hamilton. Basically it is like living up to whoever replaces Boeheim. No matter how well he does and what type of players he has, he will never be Murphy. How would you feel if you were replacing a legend? It would be tough to walk into the gym everyday and see a bronze plaque of the person he replaced.

Expectations are high for him, as they should be, but people need to take it easy. Everyone needs to give him another year. Don't they that college coaches should have four years so they can bring in their own recruits and establish their program. He is almost there, but don't expect a national championship any time soon.

[d3bballfollower]

woot- jimmy shepard knocking down 3's is nothing new...sheppard can probably be considered one of the better 3-ball shooters in the region (well, northeast and east at least)...i've seen him play a couple times and he was tough every time, very deceptive...but very right about the goofiness of the wesleyan players...just look at tobin anderson, he is goofy, and he went to wesleyan...at least they are keeping the tradition going

[woot returns]

speaking of the nescac, is anyone else as surprised as I am at Bates being ranked 17th in the nation. They really havent played any powerhouses yet and only beat bowdoin by a point. I know very little about their team. but it appears they are ranked a bit high.

[woot returns]

I just saw this and thought it was really funny. The athletic director of Lincoln made a statement apologizing for their 201-78 win the other night because of bad sportmanship. Does anyone else think this is as ridiculuous as I think it is?

[met_fan]

In no way could Giorgi Chavleishvili ever be considered a potential all-american.  Regarding Bates, they were very strong in the NESCAC last year and returned just about everyone.  Whether the #17 is justified or not, it will be hard to tell until they play Amherst, Trinity, Tufts, etc.

[met_fan]

I think the fact that Lincoln's best player was still in the game at the end is ridiculous.