MBB: Liberty League

d3bballfollower · December 11, 2006, 12:38:58 PM

great point slick...you also have to factor in that jones and others at hamilton are attending one of the best academic schools in the country...trying to balance school work and basketball is a very tough thing, especially for someone as demanding as tobin anderson

bucketsallday · December 11, 2006, 02:16:36 PM

cut nick jones a little slack here. first of all, he plays for hamilton college, not duke. its d3 basketball, so at least give him some credit for playin four years out of pure love for the game. no offense to him, but even if he plays at the next level somewhere, basketball probably isnt going to make him rich. maybe he seen these posts of people just killin him and its in his head. just a thought

anyways, back to other topics. what has anyone heard about vassar? the kid avitable is havin another great year - top five in the conference in ppg, rpg, assists, blocks, FG% - and they have a couple scorers at guard this year they havent had in the past to compliment him. is this just vassar beatin up on an easy non-conference schedule again (although they did take Wash U to the wire).

also, does anyone know anything about the freshman coming in at union, skidmore, and rpi?

woot returns · December 11, 2006, 03:59:55 PM

i understand what you are saying about nick jones. it is just so frustrating to see someone with so much potential in basketball, waste it like he is. it just goes to show you talent will only take you so far, you must be mentally strong as well.

I think st. lawrence will be the team to beat this year. They looked like a team on the rise last year with that kid bela vonnak. He gave hamilton so much trouble last year and should be able to do the same this year.

woot returns · December 11, 2006, 07:06:23 PM

i dont know about union's freshman but they better be good because their best two players graduated last year in john caginello and that linebacker-looking kid. i wouldn't worry too much about skidmore

rjcarter8 · December 12, 2006, 12:50:28 PM

Union not only graduated Caginello and Scordato (I'm assuming he's the linebacker looking kid?) — both 1,000-point scorers in their careers — as well as their 4-year point guard Chris Murphy who compares to Welchons as far as being a distributor of the basketball.

The Dutchmen are going to have some growing pains this year with a freshman and sophomore-laden team. They are currently 2-3, though the losses have come against Lasell, Middlebury and Williams. Senior Joe Mackey also has been getting on a roll, scoring better than 20 points in each of his last three games.

As for the Hamilton academics issue making it hard for Jones, there is no doubt Hamilton has top-otch academics, but how much of that really impairs its athletes? I know it's not to D-I standards in terms of ease, but athletes usually have mandatory study time built into their schedules and other academic assistance available.

DDirty22 · December 12, 2006, 02:24:34 PM

had a chance to see vassar play new paltz about a week ago, and avitable can do it all - 20pts, 12rbs, 5a, 4blk, 3stls. they also got the kid brazell - had 21 in the second half. if they can get solid play out of their point guards, there gonna sneak up on alot of people.

UCAAHoops21 · December 12, 2006, 04:28:08 PM

just thinking about league play....
What is the toughest trip for teams this year??

If I look at the schedule right, the trips breakdown like this
Clarkson & SLU?
Hamilton & Hobart?
Union & Skidmore?
RPI & Vassar?

The north country is always a tough trip for teams, but if vassar is strong and RPI continues to play well, is it possible that they are the toughest back-to-back games in the LL?

I don't know enough about vassar to proclaim this, but I am wondering what people think

woot returns · December 12, 2006, 06:26:39 PM

i'm gonna take an idea from the E8 message board, if you had to make a team from the 99-00 season to the present 06-07 season with only the best players from the liberty league, who would be on your all first team, second team?

Ill nominate three hamilton alum:
Michael Schantz
Joe Finley
Joe Smith

slickyquick · December 13, 2006, 09:40:54 AM

I'd have to add in Aaron Marshall. One of the best players out of the East Region that gets zero respect when it comes to individual accomplishments.

rjcarter8 · December 13, 2006, 11:41:49 AM

From Union I'd have to say:

John Cagianello (2002-06) 2,006 career points
Aaron Galletta (1998-01) 1,949 career points

I know scoring a lot of career points isn't the only measure, but these two players were true team leaders and both played in a pair of NCAA tournament games.

Next on Union's list is C.J. Rodgers (1998-01) 1,275 career points, and though his scoring need was offset by Galletta's presence, Rodgers was a force on the boards despite his less than big man size.

The other team I'd put up for consideration are Brian Scordato (2002-06) 1,354 career points and Devon Bruce (2001-05) 1,169 career points. Both players had scoring pressure alleviated by the presence of Cagianello, but they also knew how to hit the boards.

woot returns · December 13, 2006, 11:54:53 AM

yeh id def would agree with caginello

d3bballfollower · December 13, 2006, 01:46:06 PM

how about josh harner...leading scorer for a clarkson team when they put together some of the best years in school history...maybe the biggest recruit tobin anderson has ever gotten...getting a guy to come from houston, tx to potsdam, ny is pretty tough...harner was one of the most pure shooters i have ever seen...i would say he was the best 2 guard in the last 7 years behind cag from union

Forty 1 · December 13, 2006, 03:14:51 PM

I'd agree that RPI Vasser has the potential to be the hardest back to back this year along with clarkson SLU but i'm not convinced clarkson is that good yet. I think its a very underrated but very important thing that doesn't get talked about much. I think RPI has been hurt in the past when Vasser was real weak and Union the last few years when Skidmore was so bad. Teams spend much more time during the week preparing for the much btter team often ignoring the bad team completely hoping to win on talent and execution if they are as terrible as some of these teams have been. Also playing a tough team/tough game friday night is a hard thing to bounce back from saturday.

Also use academics as an excuse for Jones performance, everyone is going through the same thing as he is and dealing with it. The last week of school and finals week (usually no games finals week) are tough for most but this is a season of i wouldn't say bad but not living up to potential performances.

The middlebury scores from the 4 or so teams that played them are interesting. I think the gap between the top 2 teams right now is alot closer than many had predicted.

Forty 1 · December 13, 2006, 03:33:18 PM

1st Team
Joe Finley - Ham
Jared Hite - RPI
dana martin - skd
cagianello - Union (although i don't think he would be as successful without the motion and screens union ran for him will still get open looks due from the talent around him)
Don't have a PG now but i would want a better shooter/defender than murphy if i was putting this team together

2nd Team
Joe Corbett - HoB
Joe Smith - HAM
SG Paris Moore- RPI (wouldn't be on my actual team because he's not a team player but talent wise should be here)
so SG Josh Harner - Clark

the 3's and 1's are harder to name (i'm not impressed by dana martin) so would probably end up trying to play 3 big guys with trying to sneak in Tsakani Ngobeni -HAM or Tom Schneider -RPI at the 3 and and an unselfish all around SG to play PG Greg Leone - Ham is first to come to mind but haven't thought much about that

rjcarter8 · December 13, 2006, 04:01:01 PM

Quote from: Forty 1 on December 13, 2006, 03:33:18 PM
cagianello - Union (although i don't think he would be as successful without the motion and screens union ran for him will still get open looks due from the talent around him)
Don't have a PG now but i would want a better shooter/defender than murphy if i was putting this team together

As far as Cag not being as good if he didn't have the offense designed to benefit him, you may be right. However, wouldn't that hold true for other players that have been successful in the league. The best players usually are the keys to the team, so wouldn't it make sense for teams to design offenses — and to a lesser extent defenses — that play to their more talented players strengths?

As for Murphy, not the best shooter/defender, but he was clutch at the line — most of the time — and is one of the best distributors of the basketball in a while. I think he'd at least merit a mention for 2nd team.