MBB: Liberty League

[d3bballfollower]

another guy to mention is steve vega from clarkson...more of a scoring point guard (about 20 ppg as a senior), but he also had about 4 boards and about 5 assists per game while scoring 20...decent defender from what i can remember too

[Hoaf]

I got a question for you guys.

Who's the best Freshman in the Liberty League?

[Forty 1]

As far as Cag not being as good if he didn't have the offense designed to benefit him, you may be right. However, wouldn't that hold true for other players that have been successful in the league. The best players usually are the keys to the team, so wouldn't it make sense for teams to design offenses — and to a lesser extent defenses — that play to their more talented players strengths?

As for Murphy, not the best shooter/defender, but he was clutch at the line — most of the time — and is one of the best distributors of the basketball in a while. I think he'd at least merit a mention for 2nd team.
[/quote]

I think most of the other players are much better one on one players (not that he's bad) and can be as succesful in a wide variety of offenses when they have the ball. Cag is great catching and shooting off screens and using that to set up pump fakes and 1 dribble pullups  but obviosuly doesn't have the skills to be nearly as succesfful without them. My point being that with that much other talent (especially big guys) around him i dont think he would nearly as many of the kind of looks he's used. I also feel that if we were putting this team together to play other top teams or even other confrences "all star" teams our strength would be inside. Meaning that compared to the rest of the country our big guys (not really curreently but in the past) are much better comparitevely than our guards and thus the offense would revolve around them.

As for Murphy, not the best shooter/defender, but he was clutch at the line — most of the time — and is one of the best distributors of the basketball in a while. I think he'd at least merit a mention for 2nd team.

I guess i should explain this better, i think he is proabably the best pure pg from this period. Honestly to me there isn't another memorable one. Depending on philophy this may be better for this team given all the talent/scoring already there . However i do not think he is in the top 5, 10 or even 20 players in that period. You will probably think i am undervalueing the role of the PG but i believe that some of the more talented 2's could do almost as good of job running the team and provide some of the things murphy can't.

[Forty 1]

I got a question for you guys.

Who's the best Freshman in the Liberty League?

I haven't seen every team play so this is somewhat based on looking at the stats and others opinions.

I don't think there is a freshman in the league that stands out above any of the good ones getting some minutes and being productive.

I will however say that the freshman with the most potential and who will eventually be the best player is Ricky Philatre (sp?) from RPI. 6'8'' long and athletic by far the most physical gifted and has already shown hes capable of having huge games.

[woot returns]

perhaps, the next devean george?

[Hoaf]

What?

[rjcarter8]

As far as Cag not being as good if he didn't have the offense designed to benefit him, you may be right. However, wouldn't that hold true for other players that have been successful in the league. The best players usually are the keys to the team, so wouldn't it make sense for teams to design offenses — and to a lesser extent defenses — that play to their more talented players strengths?

As for Murphy, not the best shooter/defender, but he was clutch at the line — most of the time — and is one of the best distributors of the basketball in a while. I think he'd at least merit a mention for 2nd team.

I think most of the other players are much better one on one players (not that he's bad) and can be as succesful in a wide variety of offenses when they have the ball. Cag is great catching and shooting off screens and using that to set up pump fakes and 1 dribble pullups  but obviosuly doesn't have the skills to be nearly as succesfful without them. My point being that with that much other talent (especially big guys) around him i dont think he would nearly as many of the kind of looks he's used. I also feel that if we were putting this team together to play other top teams or even other confrences "all star" teams our strength would be inside. Meaning that compared to the rest of the country our big guys (not really curreently but in the past) are much better comparitevely than our guards and thus the offense would revolve around them.

As for Murphy, not the best shooter/defender, but he was clutch at the line — most of the time — and is one of the best distributors of the basketball in a while. I think he'd at least merit a mention for 2nd team.

I guess i should explain this better, i think he is proabably the best pure pg from this period. Honestly to me there isn't another memorable one. Depending on philophy this may be better for this team given all the talent/scoring already there . However i do not think he is in the top 5, 10 or even 20 players in that period. You will probably think i am undervalueing the role of the PG but i believe that some of the more talented 2's could do almost as good of job running the team and provide some of the things murphy can't.

Sorry about my response to this post. I clearly screwed up the quote feature, so I am reposting. This should make more sense alucardz.

Union did have some other weapons, but I'm not sure I understand your big guys comment. The Dutchmen usually have a hard time rebounding against other teams, as their big men are more jump shooters than back-to-the-basket guys.

Bruce was tough on the boards, but last season — Cag's senior year — there was no real go-to rebounder or big guy.

Scordato did pick up some of the slack, but he's wing player not a post presence.

I have no problem with your rationale for saying there are probably more talented 2s that could run the point while giving more options than Murphy. I was just trying to offer up a player that played the point exclusively to fit into the starting five mold.

I also agree that he's not in the top 10 players during that period, but the intangibles he provided Union during his tenure would put him in the top 20 — but that's just my opinion.

As much as replacing Cagianello and Scordato is going to be tough for the Dutchmen this season, Murphy's graduation is leaving Union with a bigger void to fill than the other two.

[d3lifer]

On this conversation about guys who can fill both roles as a scorer and a leader, with regards to this conversation about Murphy...

Tim Welchons is a perfect example of a guy who ran the team but also could fill it up a nightly basis. But with that said Murphy did have a very defined role on that team and that to run a very complex offense, one the most difficult in college basketball.

The combo guard is definitely on the rise in many leagues, because the role of the point guard has changed some over the years.

[Hoaf]

Very true, the combo guard is necessary for almost every winning team. You can see it in how kids play the game now. Every kid that plays the point wants to average 15 points and 5 assists and in doing so takes a lot more risks.

But this is a noticeable change from the high school level. In high school the point was primarily run by the short kid who could handle the ball and occasionally make a three. At the college level they need to be able to penetrate, make buckets, and hit the open man. They aren't so much ball handlers but a dual threat along with scoring.

Welchons I thought was a great example in the Liberty League similar to how in the NBA you have Deron Williams, who can put up 28 and 10.

[Forty 1]

first semester mvp?

1. Tsakani Ngobeni -  HAM-clearly frontrunner, big numbers and huge on the boards, plus team is probably favorites to win the divison
2. Neal Wesson - RPI - does it all
3. Lawerence Avitable - VAS
4. no one really stands out after this point, tough pick a guy from St. Law because they are so balanced.

[bucketsallday]

noone can argue with TK right now - hes put that team on his back. but larry avitable is one of the best all around players in the northeast, let alone the liberty league. just look at the stats over his career. if he was playin at a school with a better tradition than vassar, he would be all over this message board. i urge all of you to get out and see him play once before the year is done.

[Bball3 Fan]

Any newly committed talent for next year in the Liberty league?

[d3lifer]

Are you talking about 2007-2008? Generally unlike Division I there really isn't an early signing period at the Division III level a lot of it comes down to financial aid which doesn't get done until the spring time. Kids generally decide in April, May, and June at least for sure at the Division III level, so it is fairly early to tell.

[DDirty22]

With the opening of liberty league action only a few weeks away, any predictions for the first weekend of games?

[Hoaf]

Hamilton beats Haverford 60-51 in what looked like a sloppy game from the box score. Harlee Wood went 5 for 10 from the free throw line and TK was 0 for 5 from 3pt land. We'll see if they can win the championship game.