MBB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[stag44]

Check out the top 25 board on the multi-region topics... there's a definitive skew in the Massey ratings, so I'm not sure how valuable a tool they are at this point.  Perhaps they'll get better... but I think most teams are done with their non-con schedules, so the conference rankings likely won't change much.

I think tools like that always need to be taken with a grain of salt... this year, it might be with a 10 pound bag.


As an aside, concerning the SCIAC's non-con schedule, I think the NWC model of non-con scheduling might do them some good.  The NWC scheduled 10 games against the WIAC (though only 1 against the MIAC, so it may be an abnormal year)... the SCIAC, none.  The MIAC had 3 SCIAC games.  I know that it's really, really tough, especially in this economy to fly a team half way across the country, but Whitworth did come to WI, and both Stevens Point and Whitewater went to the northwest. 

Thoughts?

The SCIAC is always happy to host teams in Sunny Southern  California during winter break. I was and still am for SCIAC teams going out and playing agains the nations best, and hopefully there will be a move towards that.

Kats does seem to pull the rope-a-dope out on everyone in the SCIAC.  If Oxy was watching the game last night against Emerson, no doubt they will be lulled into a false sense of overconfidence that could be just enough for Kats to get 2 all-important SCIAC wins against the Tigers.  But where Kats is just too shortsighted in that rope-a-dope is that it guarantees him road games if they get the bid.  Then we all have to come to this board and listen to the Hen fans talk about how they get screwed in the seeding.  No, Kats screws them in the seeding by not playing against Emerson the same way he will against the Stags. 

I fully agree with this. Kats uses the non-conference slate to really get his head around the team he has and to scout other teams. While his out of conference record is nothing to write home about, I think his conference record speaks for itself.

Year in and Year out Scali, Newhall, Kats and Rider seem to have thier teams battling for a title regardless of the players. This years seems no different. I'm curious to see how CLU plays under pressure or if they fall behind early in games. It seems that if that happens they tend to get frustrated and fall apart.

Conference is only 3 days away!!

[Gregory Sager]

Kats does seem to pull the rope-a-dope out on everyone in the SCIAC.  If Oxy was watching the game last night against Emerson, no doubt they will be lulled into a false sense of overconfidence that could be just enough for Kats to get 2 all-important SCIAC wins against the Tigers.  But where Kats is just too shortsighted in that rope-a-dope is that it guarantees him road games if they get the bid.  Then we all have to come to this board and listen to the Hen fans talk about how they get screwed in the seeding.  No, Kats screws them in the seeding by not playing against Emerson the same way he will against the Stags.  

Your theory may very well be true, but the loss to Emerson would not be a valid example of it. Emerson is not an in-region opponent for the Sagehens, and the loss is thus irrelevant for seeding purposes should Pomona-Pitzer make the tourney.

[John Gleich]

As an aside, concerning the SCIAC's non-con schedule, I think the NWC model of non-con scheduling might do them some good.  The NWC scheduled 10 games against the WIAC (though only 1 against the MIAC, so it may be an abnormal year)... the SCIAC, none.  The MIAC had 3 SCIAC games.  I know that it's really, really tough, especially in this economy to fly a team half way across the country, but Whitworth did come to WI, and both Stevens Point and Whitewater went to the northwest. 

Thoughts?

Point, do you mean it would be good for the SCIAC to schedule more games vs the WIAC simply from the standpoint of improving in Massey?  Or do you mean from a D3 primary criteria perspective (in-region winning %, strength of schedule, etc)?

LOL, no, not just for improving Massey... though I can certainly see how, based on my post, it could seem like that!

I meant in terms of getting regional, D-III games.  The NWC and WIAC have seemed to make a concerted effort to play each other this year (heck, they played the same number of times that the WIAC and MIAC played).

Maybe I'm off base... I haven't followed the SCIAC's non-con schedule in prior years (though I do remember Cal Lutheran knocking off Point a couple years ago in Cali), and I know they get their snowbird teams, like Wheaton, Hamline, and Monmouth at CLU and Wheaton playing P-P. 

As an aside, concerning the SCIAC's non-con schedule, I think the NWC model of non-con scheduling might do them some good.  The NWC scheduled 10 games against the WIAC (though only 1 against the MIAC, so it may be an abnormal year)... the SCIAC, none.  The MIAC had 3 SCIAC games.  I know that it's really, really tough, especially in this economy to fly a team half way across the country, but Whitworth did come to WI, and both Stevens Point and Whitewater went to the northwest. 

Thoughts?

Not happening.

OxyBob

But why not?

[OxyBob]

As an aside, concerning the SCIAC's non-con schedule, I think the NWC model of non-con scheduling might do them some good.  The NWC scheduled 10 games against the WIAC (though only 1 against the MIAC, so it may be an abnormal year)... the SCIAC, none.  The MIAC had 3 SCIAC games.  I know that it's really, really tough, especially in this economy to fly a team half way across the country, but Whitworth did come to WI, and both Stevens Point and Whitewater went to the northwest. 

Thoughts?

Not happening.

But why not?

Money and logistics. SCIAC teams won't agree to a home-and-home with WIAC teams. If the WIACers want to get out of Wisconsin in December and come here, then you might see some SCIAC-WIAC match-ups. Otherwise no.

I'm curious to see how CLU plays under pressure or if they fall behind early in games. It seems that if that happens they tend to get frustrated and fall apart.

I'm surprised that CLU didn't have a better nonconference season. With their lineup I figured them to be 12-1 or 11-2 rather than 7-6.

OxyBob

[John Gleich]

As an aside, concerning the SCIAC's non-con schedule, I think the NWC model of non-con scheduling might do them some good.  The NWC scheduled 10 games against the WIAC (though only 1 against the MIAC, so it may be an abnormal year)... the SCIAC, none.  The MIAC had 3 SCIAC games.  I know that it's really, really tough, especially in this economy to fly a team half way across the country, but Whitworth did come to WI, and both Stevens Point and Whitewater went to the northwest. 

Thoughts?

Not happening.

But why not?

Money and logistics. SCIAC teams won't agree to a home-and-home with WIAC teams. If the WIACers want to get out of Wisconsin in December and come here, then you might see some SCIAC-WIAC match-ups. Otherwise no.
OxyBob

That's more my thought, to be honest.  I don't know of any home-and-home agreements with the NWC, but I guess it's possible.  Logistics just make it very difficult.

I think it was laudible for the NWCer's to go on the road... Puget Sound played two at UW Oshkosh (one against the hosts, one against Eau Claire), Pacific Lutheran came to Platteville, and George Fox went to River Falls and a MIAC school.  The WIAC has been forced to do it for years, because many of the local schools are tired of getting beat up.  But with these economic times, I don't see that being an every-year occurance.  I just hope that we don't get to a situation where teams are forced to do what WIAC football has mandated for either next year or two years from now... they're going to play a conference opponent for a non-con game.  Now, football's got a lot more guys but they also have a much more condensed season (in term of overall contests).

La Verne did go to Hawai'i and P-P went to St. Louis... but those are the only trips I see other than in-state and a few up north to Oregon/Washington.  Is that right?  You could come to the lovely shores of the Wisconsin River... and do a Polar Bear swim!

[OxyBob]

Article in the Boston Globe about Pomona forward Justin Sexton:

Sexton at home on West Coast

OxyBob

[oldchap]

it is getting old listening to you explain the fact that Chapman is the strongest team in our area. There NOT!!! So get over it!

fhsutiger, you're going to have to explain this statement to me, because with Chapman's record of 15-1 against the SCIAC over the last two years, the one defeat suffered by one point, I just don't see it.

[fhsutiger]

Okay...I will explain it. This is how I look at it. While Chapman is a good team, and I do believe that they would place in the top 5 of our league, I just don't believe they are the best in our area. You play everyone in our league during our leagues non-conference schedule, so you don't get our team's best play.

Usually our teams in our league usually hit there peak around the middle of January. I will tell you this, you play Cal Lu, Oxy, Pomona, and CMS in January and February and I guarantee you don't go 4-0 against the top 4 in our league. You may go 2-2 if you're lucky. I'm not trying to take away from what Chapman has accomplished; I'm just saying they won't win in the second half the season in our conference like they do in their independent schedule. Cal Lu isn't Southwestern, CMS isn't West Coast Baptist, Pomona isn't Santa Cruz, and Oxy isn't La Sierra.

The competition isn't the same, and our teams won't play you the same way twice. Our coaches do a good job of taking things away from you and learning from their mistakes if they lose the first time. Hell, Pomona is a teddy bear in the fall and a Beast in January and February. Coach Katz always finds a way to get his kids to play at a different level in conference play. You already know how good CMS is, give them another month to play and I don't think it will end up a 1 point game.

So you beat CMS in their first game last year and you have beat everyone in the SCIAC this year except Oxy, which is something to be proud of I guess...but I guarantee you wouldn't have beat CMS in February last year when they were playing at a high level and winning the SCIAC tournament.

Oxy Bob, Stag44, or anyone else that would like to add anything to what I have explained to oldchap, feel free to chime in. I don't think I am wrong in believing that while Chapman would be a tough competitor in our league, they are not the best team in our area.

[OxyBob]

Oxy Bob, Stag44, or anyone else that would like to add anything to what I have explained to oldchap, feel free to chime in.

The overall record of the D-III teams Chapman's played so far is 37-49. Of the 37 wins, nine are against La Sierra and one is against Caltech. oldchap brays about how well Chapman has done against the SCIAC, which is a wholly less than mediocre 25-32 against D-III, and doesn't have one team even sniffing the D3hoops Top 25. Last night Chapman got its own win against Caltech. Chapman actually intentionally purposely scheduled a game against a team which oldchap described as "the worst team in D3 basketball according to the Massey Ratings." Now that's the way to improve your SOS! Year after year Chapman plays no one and beats no one. Not even the snowbirds will agree to play them, so they're stuck playing game after game against La Sierra and schedule filler like Southwestern (which is 1-13, with its lone win against La Sierra).

Anyway, how can anything oldchap says be trusted? Just the other day he said "I promise to go away now," but he's still here, so here's a guy who doesn't even keep his promises.

Now on to the important stuff:

Here is the SCIAC Schedule for this Saturday:

Pomona-Pitzer @ La Verne   (PP by 15)
Redlands @ Claremont-Mudd-Scripps   (CMS by 12)
Caltech @ Cal Lutheran (Cal Lu by Who knows...30)
Whittier @ Occidental  (Oxy by 4)  

Concur. Pomona, Claremont, Cal Lutheran and Oxy get wins.

OxyBob

[stag44]

Oxy Bob, Stag44, or anyone else that would like to add anything to what I have explained to oldchap, feel free to chime in. I don't think I am wrong in believing that while Chapman would be a tough competitor in our league, they are not the best team in our area.

I can say personally, we wanted another shot at Chapman last year during the NCAAs. While we had a pretty successful preseason, by the end of the season, we were a far better team and far different than what you saw opening night.

This year will be the ultimate litmus test i guess: It seems like Champan will get a bid (barring a major letdown or mass suspensions) and will most likely face off against a SCIAC team, with the winner going up to Spokane and facing Whitworth (who looks even better than last year!).

You keep bringing up this "just 1 point loss". From what I remember, CMS controlled most of the second half of that game even ballooning the lead to 11 at one point.

Anyways onto the more important SCIAC season!
Should be a fun and exciting first weekend!

[oldchap]

FACT: in the last two years, Chapman had 16 wins and only 1 loss against all SCIAC teams. Anything else is rationalization, excuses, fluff and speculations.

FACT: Chapman last year was 399th in terms of strength of schedule (out of 401 teams) and it's not going to be that much better this year. Not me, not Dahlby, not anyone has disputed that. Ever. In fact, Dahlby called it "shameful".

However, you are using this fact to conclude that Chapman must be a weak team or at least not as good as the best teams in the SCIAC. I'm sorry but there is no correlation between a team with a very high winning percentage and a weak schedule, and its actual rank or strength. This is called a failure to distinguish between correlation and causality.

This argument will be settled if and when Chapman gets into the playoffs. End of story.

By the way, good luck to all of you, my SCIAC friends, for the upcoming season! I'm personally rooting for CMS, but... may the best team win. 

[nwhoops1903]

An NWC board member here who does not drop in at the SCIAC board much till you guys make your annual pilgrimage north for the NCAA Tournament.  However, I always love reading whatever OXY BOB has to say.  I do have a solution to the Oxy-Chapman feud.  Whitworth gave out big money to bring Wisconsin schools to Spokane this year.  I didn't get to attend the games as I am in Seattle but they were good to watch on the web (maybe the SCIAC could web broadcast???)  Anyhow I digress.... Chapman and OXY come play Whitworth in Spokane.  I will email the Whitworth coaches and see what they say about paying for their trip.  Why don't you guys suggest it to the Chapman and Oxy coaches?  It would be nice to have some in region pre-season games up here.  Also, UPS has a pre-season tournament they could come up to that on the same trip or same idea.

[Gregory Sager]

It would be nice to have some in region pre-season games up here.  Also, UPS has a pre-season tournament they could come up to that on the same trip or same idea.

Sister Mary Nonconference says, "What did I tell you about using the term 'pre-season' improperly, nwhoops1903?"

[nwhoops1903]

Yes a well deserved slap over the wrist by (ROFL) Sister Mary Nonconference is deserved GS.  I hadn't made that error all season..back to the beginning! 

[CMSfan]

Eyewitness report from Claremont

Stags 77, Redlands 62

Box Score: http://www.cmsathletics.org/sports/winter/mbkb/2009-10/stats/UR-CMSM.HTM

A nice win for the Stags, though Redlands put up a good fight, mostly thanks to a huge night from Pat Coffey.  CMS had a few double digit leads, but Coffey kept pulling Redlands back into striking distance until the last 10 minutes, when the Stags pulled away for good.

This was the first time I saw CMS live this year, and for the most part I liked what I saw.  I think the Stags' biggest strengths are their balance and their depth.  Everyone in the starting lineup contributed and, even without Connor Faught available, they still went 3-4 deep on the bench without much drop off in the overall level of play from the bench.  At 6'9", FR Greyson Blue is a formidable sub for big man Patrick Lacey.  FR Kevin Sullivan also hit a couple big threes off the bench, as did returner Beau Heidrich.  The starting lineup was solid throughout, though they all really picked it up the second half.  The Stags defense overall didn't seem as suffocating as in the past, but I think they are improved offensively and on the boards.  They'll be tough to beat.

As for Redlands, well, they'll be competitive, but I can't see them as a top 4 team in SCIAC.  They're undersized and they lack depth, though they can put points on the board and they play hard.  If Coffey and Matt Dietrich both have good nights, they could take down a top team in SCIAC.