MBB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[OxyBob]

Article about Whittier from the Pasadena Star-News:

AREA COLLEGE BASKETBALL: Whittier men rolling along

It might be a bit early for cries of "Break up the Poets," but the rest of the Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (SCIAC) best be paying attention.

Whittier College's men's basketball team has something going on.

The Poets have won eight of their last nine games. The loss to Occidental College last Thursday broke a seven-game winning streak.

"Yes, we're playing well right now, we're doing some good things," coach Rock Carter said.

His team is fresh off a 91-84 victory over Pomona Pitzer that put the Poets (10-6, 4-1) in a first-place tie with Cal Lutheran (12-4, 4-1) and Pomona Pitzer (7-9, 4-1).
...

Carter cited the play of Travis Crow, who led the team with 19 points and was 5-for-5 on 3-point shots in the first half, and Keegan Hoover, who had 18 points and dominated the boards with 10 rebounds.

Michael Archuletta also scored 18 points.
...

Whittier plays at Claremont-Mudd-Scripps (11-5, 3-2) [Wednesday] and hosts Cal Lutheran on Saturday.

Carter said the recent success is nice and the players' expectations are high, but he cautions that in no way will they be resting on their laurels.

"We have seniors on this team who have been through the battles," Carter explained. "They know it is a long season. The loss to Oxy is a great indicator of what can happen."

Claremont junior guard Michael Bagby was named SCIAC Player of the Week after he missed only two shots from the field in two games, scored 35 points and made 7-of-9 3-point attempts.

Carter mentioned Claremont's perennial size advantage and said, "They grind a little more, pound it inside. We like to work the perimeter and push it. Which team can establish what they do first will have the advantage."

"Break up the Poets"? Sheesh, let's not get all excited just yet. Excluding Caltech, which hasn't won a SCIAC game in 24 years, Whittier is 4-32 on the road in conference games since '02-'03, and 0-18 the last 3 seasons.

OxyBob

[Browneagle64]

Here are some stats:

SCORING OFFENSE
1. Whittier 78.0
2. La Verne 71.1

OB...don't you just miss the ol' TFS days? (Those were halftime scores.)

Geeze, I blame the TFS for giving me carpal tunnel syndrome during my senior year at Oxy. Trying to input all those stats for both teams was definately no joke. Im sure the newbies that now take on such responsibility at the Rock appreciate the TFS leaving us far behind. 

[RFB]

I'm disappointed in Redlands basketball. I really thought that once Coach Smith was shown the door the program could be turned around. I have faith in Coach Ducey but next season must be a breakout year for Redlands.

[scandihoovian]

RFB-

When I saw Redlands play on Saturday it was more a question of being outmanned (and outsized) than outcoached.  Things very well may turn around as players develop and new talent arrives.  It does still look like "system" players trying to play a more conventional style of basketball, but I think Coach Ducey has things on the right track.


Titan Q-

My purpose is not to deride the quality of basketball in the Midwest.  I know it is good, and I know the CCIW is quite possibly the strongest conference in the region.  That said, I would like to share a few qualitative observations about how the "quality gap" between the Midwestern conferences and the SCIAC.  6-7 years ago, IWU came out and thoroughly outplayed a CLU team that went on to have a decent season in the SCIAC.  Around that same time, CLU was dealt a pretty harsh loss by Buena Vista.  Watching those games gave me the impression that the CCIW and IIAC were a clear cut above the SCIAC.  Over the last few seasons, however, I have not seen anything that gave me the same impression.  UWSP, Carthage, BV, North Central, Luther and Lawrence have rolled through here and lost or, only in the case of BV, won very close games. 

Nothing that happened in any of those games made me feel like the SCIAC was still seriously beneath the quality of D3 ball in the Midwest.  It would be nice if this trend mattered in terms of how folks voted in polls and the tournament is bracketed, the frustration is knowing that there's not likely to be any change in that any time soon.

[TeeDub]

I'm disappointed in Redlands basketball. I really thought that once Coach Smith was shown the door the program could be turned around. I have faith in Coach Ducey but next season must be a breakout year for Redlands.

I think you'll find that breaking into the Big 3 territory of success will be a difficult process for Redlands.  Success tends to breed success and therefore when Redlands is competing for recruits with the likes of PP, CMS, Oxy (and now Cal Lu), the nod tends to go against the Bulldogs.  I too hope that Coach Ducey can elevate UofR hoops by landing a couple of players that will be program makers...I just think that is not as easy a task as one would think.

[TeeDub]

... but I think Coach Ducey [Redlands] has things on the right track.

Now, this is a statement that I find interesting...and actually is probably more of a statement still showing a dislike of the System, than of the current play of Redlands.  If a System Redlands team was putting up the same win-loss numbers (5-11, 1-4), the program would be a 'joke'.  But now that they play a more traditional style of play, they are "on the right track."  All I'm saying is that 5-11, 1-4 looks the same to me no matter what style you bring to get it.

[Titan Q]

Titan Q-

My purpose is not to deride the quality of basketball in the Midwest.  I know it is good, and I know the CCIW is quite possibly the strongest conference in the region.  That said, I would like to share a few qualitative observations about how the "quality gap" between the Midwestern conferences and the SCIAC.  6-7 years ago, IWU came out and thoroughly outplayed a CLU team that went on to have a decent season in the SCIAC.  Around that same time, CLU was dealt a pretty harsh loss by Buena Vista.  Watching those games gave me the impression that the CCIW and IIAC were a clear cut above the SCIAC.  Over the last few seasons, however, I have not seen anything that gave me the same impression.  UWSP, Carthage, BV, North Central, Luther and Lawrence have rolled through here and lost or, only in the case of BV, won very close games. 

Nothing that happened in any of those games made me feel like the SCIAC was still seriously beneath the quality of D3 ball in the Midwest.  It would be nice if this trend mattered in terms of how folks voted in polls and the tournament is bracketed, the frustration is knowing that there's not likely to be any change in that any time soon.

I believe the top two leagues are the WIAC and the CCIW (the IIAC is not a top league by any stretch), and other leagues seem to come and go...last year the UAA was probably the best.  What makes the CCIW and WIAC the strongest is depth.  The WIAC and CCIW's best teams are typically not any better than the top teams from other good leagues (and often they are not as good as the Hope's, Amhert's, Wooster's, etc), but there are just simply more "quality" teams year-in and year-out.  When you start stacking up, say, the #3-6 teams from the CCIW and WIAC vs most leagues, I think that is where the separation is.

I saw Occidental and CMS last year.  I thought Occidental compared very favorably to the CCIW's top teams -- Augustana, which won the regular season and conference tournament, and Wheaton, which made it to the Elite 8.  But again, it is the depth of the CCIW that makes it a top league.

[TeeDub]

Caltech outscored Redlands 45-42 in the second half of a 78-64 loss to the Bulldogs...on the Bulldogs' floor.

[OxyBob]

Eyewitness report from Thousand Oaks:

Pomona 69, Cal Lutheran 65

Pomona built a 19-point second half lead, withstood a furious CLU rally, and held on for the win at Cal Lutheran. The Sagehens were hot in the first half, hitting 14-for-25 (56%) and 7-for-10 on 3-balls, and had a 37-26 halftime lead. The Kingsmen had all sorts of trouble getting anything going on offense against Pomona's 2-3 zone. In the second half, Gabe Porter's 3-pointer gave Pomona a 53-34 lead at 12:50, and CLU looked dead in the water. The Sagehens led 62-47 at 5:20, and that's when CLU started its comeback. 9 straight points cut the lead to 62-56 at 2:50. Pomona led 68-60 with 1:20 left when Xavier Walton stole the ball from Jeremy Namkung at midcourt, and Adam Chiamowitz unwisely grabbed Walton as he headed for a breakaway and Chiamowitz got called for an intentional foul. Walton hit both FTs and it was 68-62 with 55 seconds left. CLU got the ball out of bounds on the intentional foul and Aaron Van Klaveren immediately hit a 3-ball and it was 68-65 with 52 seconds to go. Kyle Knudsen fouled Jeremy Namkung, a 91% FT shooter, but Namkung missed on the 1-and-1 and CLU had a chance to tie. Knudsen missed on a 3-pointer, and David Liss added a FT for the final margin of victory.

For Pomona, David Liss had 22 points and 7 assists, Jeremy Namkung and Gabe Porter each scored 13, and Adam Chaimowitz had 11. The Sagehens hit 13-for-22 on 3-pointers (59%). For CLU, Aaron Van Klaveren played an outstanding game with 22 points and 17 rebounds, and Greg Grimm scored 16. Pomona did a good job covering Andy Meier, and held the SCIAC's leading scorer and rebounder to 8 points and 2 rebounds.

With the win, Pomona (5-1) moved into sole possession of first place in the SCIAC. Whittier succumbed to the pressure of the road yet again and lost to Claremont 72-66 in the Temple of Doom, while Oxy beat La Verne 53-50 in the Super Tents. Whittier, Claremont and Oxy are all tied for second with 4-2 records.

Saturday's schedule:

Cal Lutheran (12-5, 4-2) @ Whittier (10-7, 4-2)
Redlands (6-11, 2-4) @ Oxy (8-9, 4-2)
Claremont (12-5, 4-2) @ Caltech (1-16, 0-6)
La Verne (6-12, 1-5) @ Pomona (8-9, 5-1)

OxyBob

EDIT: From the SCIAC web site:

SCIAC Male Athlete of the Week:  Occidental's Sean Anderson

Sean Anderson, Occidental College
Basketball
(JR, C - Burbank, CA)
Sean Anderson was a huge reason the Tigers upset Whittier on Wednesday night with a 17-point, 18-rebound double-double adding three assists, a block and a steal as Oxy came from behind to win 68-60. He followed up on Saturday shooting 5-for-8 from the field and 2-for-2 from the charity stripe to pitch in 12 points while grabbing four rebounds, three steals and supplying a block in limited action against Caltech. Overall in the two games he averaged 14.5 points and 11 rebounds per game and currently shooting 52.5% from the field overall this season to lead the team.

Tonight Anderson scored 28 points and had 14 rebounds and 4 blocks in Oxy's win over ULV.

[scandihoovian]

As usual, OB accurately captured the proceedings at Gilbert.  The only thing he failed to mention was the giant funnel that appeared over the basket every time PP fired up a three.  The Hens were lights out most of the game, and did a great job of moving the ball to create good opportunities.  I was glad to see the Kingsmen mount a rally, unfortunately it was a classic case of too little too late.

With PP at 5-1, and 4 others at 4-2 (Oxy, CMS, Whitter, and CLU), it should be an exciting second half of conference play.

If a System Redlands team was putting up the same win-loss numbers (5-11, 1-4), the program would be a 'joke'.  But now that they play a more traditional style of play, they are "on the right track."  All I'm saying is that 5-11, 1-4 looks the same to me no matter what style you bring to get it.

You are right, Jordis, I am no fan of the system, and your point about records is well taken.  But I think it's fair to acknowledge that the cupboard for playing any kind of basketball was pretty bare at the end of Smith's tenure, and Ducey deserves at least another year or two before the jury weighs in with a final verdict.  The team I watched last Saturday was disciplined and played hard, that's why I still tend to think they're on the right track.  It doesn't seem like there are the kinds of institutional barriers to a successful basketball program at Redlands the way there are at other system schools, which is, I guess, why it always made me curious why Coach Smith went that direction.

I saw Occidental and CMS last year.  I thought Occidental compared very favorably to the CCIW's top teams -- Augustana, which won the regular season and conference tournament, and Wheaton, which made it to the Elite 8.  But again, it is the depth of the CCIW that makes it a top league.

I have no doubt the CCIW is deep, but if the top SCIAC schools compare favorably with the top CCIW schools, I guess I am still curious as to why the top SCIAC schools don't get the same recognition in the polls and at tournament time.  FWIW, while the SCIAC usually only has 2-3 teams that are legit contenders, this year there are  five teams with a legit shot at the title, something that makes the year end four team tourney all the more interesting...

[frodotwo]

UWSP, Carthage, BV, North Central, Luther and Lawrence have rolled through here and lost or, only in the case of BV, won very close games. 

I wonder if the trip out west may have had something to do with the outcomes. Are there return trips planned to the Midwest??

[TeeDub]

and Ducey deserves at least another year or two before the jury weighs in with a final verdict. 

Absolutely!

[OxyBob]

UWSP, Carthage, BV, North Central, Luther and Lawrence have rolled through here and lost or, only in the case of BV, won very close games.

I wonder if the trip out west may have had something to do with the outcomes. Are there return trips planned to the Midwest??

Ah, the "We lost because we had to travel" excuse, that old sententious saw. Always hauled out by Midwest teams after they come to California and lose, particularly by teams from the CCIW, who never fail to come up with a lame excuse, justification or explanation for why they lost other than their opponent was just better.

I was at the Cal Lutheran-UW-Stevens Point game last season. Travel was not an issue for the Pointers when they had a 16-point lead in the first half, and were still up by 15 with 10:30 to go. Travel only became an excuse when CLU came back and won the game in OT.

I also saw North Central play CLU last season. Travel didn't seem to be a factor for NCC when they were up by 7 with 5 minutes to go. Travel only became an excuse when CLU came back and again won the game in OT. North Central apparently got over their travel weariness, because two days later they scored 100 against Caltech.

This season Carthage traveled to California and played Redlands, and beat the Bulldogs by 12. They then rested up for a day and went sightseeing before getting on a bus and traveling to CLU. I was at that game. Travel wasn't the Red Men's problem, Andy Meier and Kyle Knudsen were, and CLU won the game easily.

This season Lawrence traveled to California and played Caltech, scored 60 points in the first half and won by 41. They then rested up for a day and went sightseeing before getting on a bus and traveling to CLU. I was at that game, too. Travel wasn't the Vikings' problem when they led 37-32 at halftime. Travel only became an excuse after CLU outscored LU 53-28 in the second half and won going away by 20.

I saw Luther play CLU this season. Travel wasn't an issue for the Norse when they led 51-50 with 3 minutes to go. Travel only became an excuse after Cal Lutheran scored the last 7 points of the game and won 57-51.

This season I saw Buena Vista play twice at CLU. I was interested to see BVU because they were highly touted and highly ranked (and because it brought back fond memories of when I traveled to Storm Lake to watch Oxy beat BVU in the playoffs.) Travel wasn't a problem for BVU when they played Pacific Lutheran. What was a problem for the Beavers was that PLU was a smaller yet much quicker team which ran circles around them and probably should have won the game. PLU led by 7 with 47 seconds to go but couldn't hang on, and BVU tied it up and won in OT. Note: The PLU players I spoke with after the game did not say travel was an excuse for the loss.

The next night I watched Buena Vista play Cal Lutheran. It was a really good game which seesawed back and forth the entire second half. BVU and CLU played each other straight up. CLU had two good chances to tie it at the end, but they missed and BVU won by 3. So in the end Buena Vista traveled to California and won 2 games.

Based on my observations of the games I saw, travel was not a factor. The better team just won each time, which pretty much happens in every game.

OxyBob

[Titan Q]

Ah, the "We lost because we had to travel" excuse, that old sententious saw. Always hauled out by Midwest teams after they come to California and lose, particularly by teams from the CCIW, who never fail to come up with a lame excuse, justification or explanation for why they lost other than their opponent was just better.

Occidental 88
IWU 67

http://www.oxyathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2007-08/stats/1229iwu.htm

The Titans got beat by a better team tonight...the Tigers may be the best team the Titans have faced this year.  6-1 guard Connor Whitman is a legit 1st Team All-American candidate and Oxy has a ton of size, including 6-10/240 freshman transfer Sean Anderson from UC-Riverside.

IWU point-guard Travis Rosenkranz was in foul trouble the entire game and only played 14 minutes.  Sean Dwyer, just back from that year-long injury and playing in his third game, was forced into 30 minutes of action.  Not an ideal way for Sean to get back into things.

The Titans couldn't buy a 3-pointer tonight - 2-16 from beyond the arc.  The perimeter guys were all off tonight it seemed. 

Another solid game out of the big guys - Gant with 14 & 10, Chamernik with 16 & 7, and Sexauer with 8 points.  As the freshmen guards continue to settle in and play more consistently, the Titans will improve.

Bottom line tonight though was just Occidental was just too much.  That's a very good team.  The Tiger fans I spoke with after the game all felt like that was their team's best performance of the year so maybe I saw them at their best, but that seems like a team that could do a little damage in the NCAA tournament this year.

[Titan Q]

I was at the Cal Lutheran-UW-Stevens Point game last season. Travel was not an issue for the Pointers when they had a 16-point lead in the first half, and were still up by 15 with 10:30 to go. Travel only became an excuse when CLU came back and won the game in OT.

I also saw North Central play CLU last season. Travel didn't seem to be a factor for NCC when they were up by 7 with 5 minutes to go. Travel only became an excuse when CLU came back and again won the game in OT. North Central apparently got over their travel weariness, because two days later they scored 100 against Caltech.

This season Carthage traveled to California and played Redlands, and beat the Bulldogs by 12. They then rested up for a day and went sightseeing before getting on a bus and traveling to CLU. I was at that game. Travel wasn't the Red Men's problem, Andy Meier and Kyle Knudsen were, and CLU won the game easily.

This season Lawrence traveled to California and played Caltech, scored 60 points in the first half and won by 41. They then rested up for a day and went sightseeing before getting on a bus and traveling to CLU. I was at that game, too. Travel wasn't the Vikings' problem when they led 37-32 at halftime. Travel only became an excuse after CLU outscored LU 53-28 in the second half and won going away by 20.

I saw Luther play CLU this season. Travel wasn't an issue for the Norse when they led 51-50 with 3 minutes to go. Travel only became an excuse after Cal Lutheran scored the last 7 points of the game and won 57-51.

This season I saw Buena Vista play twice at CLU. I was interested to see BVU because they were highly touted and highly ranked (and because it brought back fond memories of when I traveled to Storm Lake to watch Oxy beat BVU in the playoffs.) Travel wasn't a problem for BVU when they played Pacific Lutheran. What was a problem for the Beavers was that PLU was a smaller yet much quicker team which ran circles around them and probably should have won the game. PLU led by 7 with 47 seconds to go but couldn't hang on, and BVU tied it up and won in OT. Note: The PLU players I spoke with after the game did not say travel was an excuse for the loss.

The next night I watched Buena Vista play Cal Lutheran. It was a really good game which seesawed back and forth the entire second half. BVU and CLU played each other straight up. CLU had two good chances to tie it at the end, but they missed and BVU won by 3. So in the end Buena Vista traveled to California and won 2 games.

Based on my observations of the games I saw, travel was not a factor. The better team just won each time, which pretty much happens in every game.

OxyBob

Forget about the travel...what about the simple theory of "homecourt advantage"?  Don't we all agree that the home team enjoys some type of advantage in college basketball?  Bob, you continue to make it clear that you consider those individual games, played in the SCIAC schools' gyms, to be the end-all, be-all in the evaluation of the D3 teams that travel out your way.  But if, say, UW-Stevens Point and Cal Lutheran played a second game last year in Stevens Point, Wisconsin, isn't there a chance the game would have played out differently?  Or if Carthage and Cal Lutheran now squared off in Kenosha, WI?  And isn't there a chance that if you saw those games as well, you might have a different opinion of both teams in some way?

You say, "The better team just won each time, which pretty much happens in every game."  I'm pretty sure you don't really believe that.  We can all think of dozens of examples off the top our heads of situations where a game between Team X and Team Y was dramatically different based on the venue.  And situations where a team, playing at home, beats a better team.

I have no idea what teams were really better in those games you saw, but I'm confident that watching one game, with one team playing at home, just is not a reasonable evaluation at all.