MBB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Titan Q]

Of course home teams have a home court advantage, and some more than others, but I don't use it as yet another excuse for a loss. And I don't consider individual games to be the be-all, end-all of evaluating teams. What I get tired of is the constant devaluing and pooh-poohing that I hear every time one of these so-called vaunted Midwest or East D-III powers comes to town and gets beat by a SCIAC team. I've heard the same excuses for years: We had to travel, we were tired, we were distracted by the Hollywood sign, the sun burned our retinas, we couldn't get room service in the hotel, our star player didn't have his favorite teddy bear with him, and on and on.

Yet last year after I watched Occidental beat IWU handily, I posted that Oxy was clearly the better team, etc. (as I re-posted here yesterday).  I didn't make excuses, did I?  Yet you never mention that.  I think you hear what you want to hear, and when you don't get that, you twist what someone actually says into whatever fits your CCIW is evil, SCIAC gets screwed by D3hoops.com and the NCAA, etc. theories.

Heck, last season Wheaton made excuses for Kent Raymond, who you have compared to Michael Jordan (heh),

I did not compare Kent Raymond to Michael Jordan, Bob.  I said:

"Wheaton is not a one-man team, but that one man (Kent Raymond) is who creates the opportunities for Ben Panner, Andy Wiele, Jake Carlwell, Tim McCrary, etc...without Raymond, those players have a much harder time carrying the load.  The championship Chicago Bulls were by no stretch a one-man team, but take #23 away, and Pippen, Grant, & Co. struggle to fill their roles the same."

I think it's clear I did not compare Raymond to Jordan...just compared the role Raymond plays in getting his teamates involved in the game.  I grew up in Chicago watching Michael Jordan and, believe me, I don't compare anybody I've ever seen play to him.

As for speculating about what would happen if Cal Lutheran played at Carthage (or UWSP or wherever), I don't play the "what if" game. I have no idea what would happen, and neither do you. I do know that I saw Carthage at full strength against CLU, and the Kingsmen handled them with relative ease. I have seen some damn good D-III teams come out here to play -- Wooster, St. Thomas and Mississippi College come to mind -- but Carthage wasn't one of them. If that treads on your tender CCIW sensibilities, sorry. Maybe I should have been more impressed with Cal Lutheran for beating the Red Men.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that I think Carthage is a great team?  I think I've made it pretty clear on these boards, and on Hoopsville, etc., that I do not view Carthage as a CCIW conference tournament team (i.e., I think they'll finish 5th or lower).  Like this after the MIAA/CCIW Challenge:

I seem to remember similar comments about Carthage last season and at the halfway point they were leading the CCIW.

That's true Scott, but Carthage did finish in 5th place (7-7). 

I really can't envision the Red Men finishing any higher than that this year.  I just don't see them finishing better than Augustana, Wheaton, and Elmhurst, and I'm pretty sure Illinois Wesleyan is quite a bit better overall too (more balance, more size).

Carthage has one of the best players in Division III and they are going to knock off top CCIW teams, but I just don't think they have enough size down low to contend in the CCIW this year.  We'll see.

I think I've been consistent is saying that I view Carthage as a team with one of the best players in Division III (Steve Djurickovic), a nice complementary guard (Sean Fendley), but very little else...including absolutely zero inside presence.  I think Carthage has some nice wins (like Hope, Calvin, and Augustana) and can beat good teams because of how good Djurickovic is, but they just don't have the balance to be considered a great team.   

My comments to you about Carthage have been in response to your frequent suggestions that Cal Lutheran has to be better than Carthage, because of that one game (your utter disgust everytime Carthage gets 1 or 2 poll votes to Cal Lu's zero).  I just don't think that is reasonable for reasons I explained yesterday.  I'd like to see a game played at Carthage first, or on a neutral court, to better gauge that.  I certainly don't think Carthage is a great team, but the Red Men may be better than they looked that night.

[Titan Q]

I watch a lot of basketball games, and unless there was some sort of flukey half court shot or bizarre play or outrageous call which decided the game, the team which scored the most points was the better team apart from the venue or the travel or any other factor. You like to factor in all of that stuff, especially to explain away a loss. I don't.

...on that particular night, yes.  But Boston College shouldn't be ranked ahead of North Carolina all season long because of the result of the game on January 4, should they?  Sometimes funny stuff happens - NC lost that game at home.  I think it's pretty clear Boston College is not better than the Tarheels, even though they were that night.  In the CCIW, Augustana lost at Carthage a couple weeks ago - anyone who has seen both teams play knows Augustana is a lot better basketball team.  Millikin won @ Elmhurst this year...the same Elmhurst team that handed Wash U its only loss.  Millikin is not better than Elmhurst.  Things happen.

Cal Lutheran might be a lot better than Carthage for all I know - I was not at that game like you were, but I watched the entire thing online.  There is no question Cal Lu was better that night - the game was not ever close.  But again, I don't buy the suggestion that one game (especially when one of the teams is at home) is enough to make final judgement regarding which team is better. 

You say, "You like to factor in all of that stuff, especially to explain away a loss. I don't."  If you are trying to accurately evaluate two teams, I think you have to look at the big picture, which for me includes the rest of the resume (other results), location of the game, if there was a key injury, or just misc. stuff you can pick up about the game.  Like the following from last year...

Cal Lutheran beats NCC (unranked), playing w/o Chris Drennan, in OT. They then beat #3 Stevens Point (anyone injured?) in OT. Hope springs eternal.   

A really good performance by NCC, but I wouldn't read too much into that comparative score.  I'm guessing Cal Lutheran played with a lot more fire and intensity vs UW-Stevens Point...

http://www.venturacountystar.com/news/2008/jan/02/clu-pulls-off-upset-of-national-power/

"I just sat there watching the celebration with tears in my eyes," said senior guard Deshion Inniss, who provided the game-tying points late in regulation and the game-winning points late in overtime.

"It felt like we won the NBA championship or something."

Sophomore Mychal Owens had 21 points and sophomore Andy Meier added 17 points and 11 rebounds as Cal Lutheran produced one of the biggest wins in its program's history, knocking off Wisconsin-Stevens Point, ranked No. 3 in the nation by D3Hoops.com, 72-70 in overtime Tuesday night at the Gilbert Center.

Louis Hurd led the Pointers with 14 points. Stevens Point's leading scorer, Pete Rortvedt, had 12 points on 4-of-12 shooting.

"The SCIAC doesn't get a chance to play a national powerhouse team very often," said Cal Lutheran coach Rich Rider. "We told our guys that it was a golden opportunity and let's max it out.

(Maybe Cal Lu played with less fire vs NCC than they did vs Stevens Point.)

Again, there is just no way I'm going to rank Millikin ahead of Elmhurst right now because of one result...even if head-to-head, at Elmhurst.  Just as no one is ranking Boston College ahead of UNC.  Sometimes you do have to factor in some other stuff.

[TeeDub]

OB,

I heard them mention Amir Mazarei during the Oxy broadcast tonight...I felt you flinch from here...

Congrats on the win...I would have never thought Oxy would be 5-2 at the turn...

JR

[OxyBob]

OB,
I heard them mention Amir Mazarei during the Oxy broadcast tonight...I felt you flinch from here... Congrats on the win...I would have never thought Oxy would be 5-2 at the turn...
JR

Eyewitness report from Eagle Rock:

Oxy 69, Redlands 54

Oxy clamped down on Redlands in the second half and pulled away for a 69-54 win. In the first half, Redlands led 17-12 at 10:50, but Blake Moore and Justin Goltz hit 3-balls to put the Tigers up by 1. After Oxy led 23-20, the Bulldogs reeled off 9 straight and led 29-23 before Peter Gierlach's 3-pointer brought Oxy to 29-26 at the break. In the second half, Kent Ervin's 3-pointer gave UR a 38-32 lead at 13:00, but Oxy's defense completely smothered UR, and the Tigers outscored the Bulldogs 18-4 over the next 6 minutes and led 50-42. Jack Hanley hit a 3-ball and then made a 3-point play on a jumper and one, and the Tigers led 58-48 at 2:40. Hanley made 2 more on a layup, and Oxy finished out the game with a FT parade. Oxy shot 61% FGs in the second half, and for the game outrebounded Redlands 36-17.

For Oxy, Jack Hanley and Sean Anderson were a solid one-two punch. Hanley had 23 on 8-for-15 including four 3-pointers, plus 5 assists. Redlands did a good job keeping the ball away from Anderson, but he still managed 22 points on 5-for-7 FGs, 12-for-15 FTs, and he also pulled down 8 rebounds. Dave Ostrow played effective point guard with 4 points, 6 assists, 3 steals, and 6 rebounds. Jake Copithorne only played 3 minutes, but he managed 5 points (2-for-2 FGs and 1-for-1 FT), an assist and 2 offensive rebounds. For Redlands, Patrick Coffey played a great all-around game with 20 points, 3 assists and 4 rebounds, while Travis Miller scored 14, and Matt Dietrich had 10.

Oxy won its 5th straight, evened its record at 9-9 and is now 5-2 in the conference. I have to agree with Jordis Rocks. Oxy had lost 8 of 10 and at times looked pretty bad doing it, but Brian Newhall has done a great job turning the Tigers around and they have continued to improve game by game. Redlands dropped to 6-12 overall and 2-5 in the SCIAC. Oxy has a tough assignment this Wednesday at Cal Lutheran. The Kingsmen are smarting from 2 straight conference losses to Pomona and Whittier.

Tonight's other SCIAC scores:

Whittier 80, Cal Lutheran 65
Claremont 75, Caltech 47
Pomona 58, La Verne 36

OxyBob

[OxyBob]

Saturday capsules:

Pomona 58, La Verne 36: The Sagehens held the Leopards to 29.5% shooting on only 13-for-44. For Pomona, David Liss scored 14 and Justin Sexton had 10. For ULV, Kyle Luhnow was the only player in double figures.

Whittier 80, Cal Lutheran 65: The Poets had 5 men in double figures. The Kingsmen trailed by 15 with a little over 15 minutes left, fought back and tied the game at 57 with 8 minutes to go, but couldn't sustain the momentum. Whittier outscored CLU 14-4, led 71-61 at 3:20, and cruised home from there. For Whittier, Mike Archuletta had 19, Ken Albritton had 15, Marcus Gibson scored 13, David Hayashi had 12, and Keegan Hoover added 10. For Cal Lutheran, Andy Meier had 23 pts and 9 rebounds, Kyle Knudsen scored 13, and Aaron Fisher had 12.

Claremont 75, Caltech 47: The Stags used a 19-2 run over 7 minutes to open up a 20-point first half lead, and the Beavers were unable to respond. For CMS, Patrick Lacey scored 18, Beau Heidrich had 11, and 12 others scored points for the Stags. For Caltech, Ryan Elmquist had 22 points and 11 rebounds, his 5th straight game in double figures and second straight over 20, and Han Bin Man scored 11.

Halfway through the SCIAC season, and it's Pomona in the lead:

Pomona  6-1
Oxy  5-2
Claremont  5-2
Whittier  5-2
Cal Lutheran  4-3
Redlands  2-5
La Verne  1-6
Caltech  0-7

This Wednesday's schedule, all games 7:30 p.m.:

Oxy (9-9, 5-2) @ Cal Lutheran (12-6, 4-3)
Whittier (11-7, 5-2) @ La Verne (5-13, 1-6)
Redlands (6-12, 2-5) @ Claremont (13-5, 5-2)
Pomona (9-9, 6-1) @ Caltech (1-17, 0-7)

OxyBob

[OxyBob]

Article about Pomona from the San Bernardino Sun:

Sagehens survive player absences to lead SCIAC

Pomona-Pitzer men's basketball coach Charlie Katsiaficas prefers to be optimistic rather than pessimistic. So when he had four players miss the first first eight games because they were studying abroad, he looked at the bright side.

"We had a lot of guys that got an opportunity to play (who) might not have," he said. "I was looking at the bigger picture and hoping it would help us down the line as far as depth goes."

That seems to be the case. The Sagehens (9-9, 6-1) were 2-6 through those eight games but hold a one-game lead after the first half of SCIAC play.

Defending champion Occidental, Whittier and Claremont-Mudd-Scripps are tied for second in what most coaches agree is the one of the most balanced conference races ever.

The quartet of players that joined the team late includes two starters - junior forward Justin Sexton (16.8 points per game, 7.4 rebounds per game) and senior forward Gabriel Porter (4.8 ppg, 3.8 rpg). The other two are junior wings Colin Reinstadt and Kael Kristof, both reserves.

It helped that Katsiaficas got a rare Division I transfer in junior guard David Liss (14.5 ppg, 3 assists per game), who had walked on at Cal but was looking to go elsewhere after a coaching change there.

Katsiaficas credited Liss and backcourt mates Adam Chaimowitz (15.7 ppg, 4.4 rpg) and Jeremy Namkung (9.2 ppg, 3 apg) for holding the team together through its growing pains.
...

Katsiaficas realizes that losing players temporarily comes with the territory of working at an institution where academics are a high priority.

"One of the things we stress in getting kids to come here is the total experience and the educational opportunities so it would be hypocritical for me to do anything but support those endeavors," he said. "From a selfish standpoint, yes I would have loved to have them the whole season."

OxyBob

[OxyBob]

Wednesday night notes:

Oxy (9-9, 5-2) @ Cal Lutheran (12-6, 4-3)
Oxy has won 5 straight overall, and the Tigers have won 3 straight at CLU. Oxy only gives up 58.9 points per game, 5th best in all of D-III. The Kingsmen lost at Whittier after losing at home to Pomona last Wednesday. That's the first time CLU has lost back-to-back games since February '07. CLU's Andy Meier leads the conference in scoring (16.7 ppg) and is second in rebounds (8.2 pg) behind his teammate Aaron Van Klaveren (9.1). The Kingsmen have 4 players averaging double figures: Meier, Kyle Knudsen (14.2), Greg Grimm (10.6) and Van Klaveren (10.4). Oxy's Dave Ostrow leads the SCIAC in assists with 53, while CLU's Kyle Knudsen leads the league in steals with 36.

Whittier (11-7, 5-2) @ La Verne (5-13, 1-6)
Whittier has not beaten a SCIAC team other than Caltech on the road since the Poets won at ULV more than four years ago on January 15, 2005. Whittier leads the league in scoring, averaging 77.2 ppg. La Verne has lost 5 straight and 7 of 8. Billy Nicolini (12.6 ppg) and Kyle Luhnow (12.4 ppg) are the go-to guys for the Leopards. Mike Archuletta is averaging 12.5 points and 6.5 rebounds per game for Whittier. The Poets' Keegan Hoover (91.7%) and Marcus Gibson (88.9%) lead the SCIAC in FT shooting.

Redlands (6-12, 2-5) @ Claremont (13-5, 5-2)
Claremont barely escaped with a 3-point win at Redlands in the SCIAC opener. The Stags shoot 47.6% from the floor, best in the league. CMS also leads the SCIAC in steals with 10.2 per game. Claremont's Achilles' heel is FT shooting. The Stags only shoot 65.9% from the line. The Bulldogs' Matt Dietrich (15.4 ppg) is second in the conference in scoring, and his teammate Patrick Coffey (13.9 ppg) is 6th. UR has lost 4 of the last 5 in the Temple of Doom.

Pomona (9-9, 6-1) @ Caltech (1-17, 0-7)
The Sagehens (43.6%) have the best 3-point FG percentage in all D-III, led by David Liss (50%) and Adam Chaimowitz (45.1%). Liss is 3rd in the league in scoring, second in assists, and first in 3-pt FG%. Caltech hasn't done much winning, but Travis Haussler (23) and Ryan Elmquist (21) lead the league in blocked shots, and Matt Dellatorre (12.5 ppg), Elmquist (21.1 ppg), and Haussler (10.3 ppg) are doing everything they can do to try and help CIT get their first SCIAC win since 1985. This game won't be it.

OxyBob

[Pat Coleman]

OB -- can you add links with the stories? I would occasionally add one to the What we're reading box on the front page, but I don't always have time to do the search (and those papers don't seem to show up in my standard Division III basketball Google News search).

[Sabretooth Tiger]

Here's the link to the Sagehen article most recently posted by OB:

http://www.sbsun.com/search/ci_11607345

[OxyBob]

OB -- can you add links with the stories?

Here's the link to the Sagehen article most recently posted by OB:
http://www.sbsun.com/search/ci_11607345

Yes, I can do that, and thanks for the link, OxyBob.

OxyBob

[TeeDub]

UR has lost 4 of the last 5 in the Temple of Doom.

Hey OB...is that 1 win a "System" (aka Traveling Freak Show) win?

JR

[OxyBob]

UR has lost 4 of the last 5 in the Temple of Doom.

Hey OB...is that 1 win a "System" (aka Traveling Freak Show) win?

Jan. 17, 2007: Redlands 98 @ Claremont 94
UR: Amir Mazarei 33, Patrick Coffey 16, Daniel Markus 15, Dave Thomas 10
CMS: Mani Maceira 40, Dan Winterbottom 13, Zach Weismann 10
3-Point Shots: Redlands 14-for-43, Claremont 3-for-5

Claremont shot 66.7% on 42-for-63 and lost.

OxyBob

[scandihoovian]

Looking forward to tonight's CLU-Oxy matchup, especially as it's the one "impact game" on the schedule.  A road win for Oxy would be huge as the top 5 continue to fight it out for one of the four spots in the SCIAC tourney.  A CLU win gives them a season sweep, which, again, may be critical when it comes down to determining tournament participants. Should be a great game.

OB-
Thanks for the article about PP.  I didn't realize Liss was a former D1 walk on.  He sure looked tough against the Kingsmen.  Does anyone know if he had to sit for a semester?  The only stats I could find show him as having played in just 10 games...

[OxyBob]

Looking forward to tonight's CLU-Oxy matchup, especially as it's the one "impact game" on the schedule.  A road win for Oxy would be huge as the top 5 continue to fight it out for one of the four spots in the SCIAC tourney.  A CLU win gives them a season sweep, which, again, may be critical when it comes down to determining tournament participants. Should be a great game.

Craig Dunkin aka tigersports will be doing the Oxy vs. CLU play-by-play on OXYBroadcast.com, "Your Home for Internet Broadcasts for Occidental College Sports." This will be Craig's first-ever basketball broadcast from CLU. His A-team color commentator Tim Walsh is unable to be with him tonight, so filling in for Tim will be yours truly, the Stu Lantz of the SCIAC.

I didn't realize Liss was a former D1 walk on.  He sure looked tough against the Kingsmen.  Does anyone know if he had to sit for a semester?  The only stats I could find show him as having played in just 10 games...

Dave Liss did not have to sit since he transferred down from D-I to D-III. He's played in all of Pomona's games this season.

Here's his bio from the Cal web site:

http://calbears.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/liss_david00.html

OxyBob

[OxyBob]

Eyewitness report from Thousand Oaks:

Cal Lutheran 77, Oxy 51

CLU: Greg Grimm 17, Kyle Knudsen 17, Aaron Van Klaveren 10, Andy Meier 10
Oxy: Sean Anderson 10
Halftime: CLU 44-29
Rebounds: CLU 33-13

Cal Lutheran did everything right and throttled Oxy, 77-51. CLU led 18-14 at 11:40. Using crisp passing, sharp shooting, aggressive board play, and lockdown man-to-man defense, the Kingsmen went on runs of 12-2 and 14-7 to open up a 21-point lead at 44-23, and led by 15 at the break. In the second half it was more of the same. CLU went on a 17-4 run and it was a clinic at 63-37 with 12 minutes to go. For the game CLU shot 64% from the floor and outrebounded the Tigers 33-13. The Kingmen had 4 starters in double figures. Very few positives for Oxy.

With the win, CLU swept the 2 SCIAC games from Oxy, which gives the Kingsmen a big advantage over the Tigers in the race for the 4-team conference tournament. This coming Saturday CLU will try and avenge an earlier loss to Claremont, while Oxy will be in must-win mode against Pomona.

Other scores from Wednesday:

Pomona 91, Caltech 47
Whittier 70, La Verne 53
Claremont 64, Redlands 49

SCIAC standings:

Pomona  7-1
Claremont  6-2
Whittier  6-2
Cal Lutheran  5-3
Oxy  5-3
Redlands  2-6
La Verne  1-7
Caltech  0-8

Saturday's schedule:

Whittier (12-7, 6-2) @ Redlands (6-13, 2-6)
Pomona (10-9, 7-1) @ Oxy (9-10, 5-3)
Claremont (14-5, 6-2) @ Cal Lutheran (13-6, 5-3)      
La Verne (5-14, 1-7) @ Caltech (1-18, 0-8)

OxyBob