MBB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[OxyBob]

Great Post OldChap, but I do have a couple of points and disagreements.

Was that a post or War and Peace? Geez, I'd guess that it was longer than the entire CMS-CU game.

CMS won. Chapman lost. End of analysis. Just another basketball game in a continuing series. Time for the next game.

OxyBob

[fhsutiger]

Great Post OldChap, but I do have a couple of points and disagreements.

Was that a post or War and Peace? Geez, I'd guess that it was longer than the entire CMS-CU game.

CMS won. Chapman lost. End of analysis. Just another basketball game in a continuing series. Time for the next game.

OxyBob

Hear...Hear....Let's stop talking about Chapman!

[stag44]

Great Post OldChap, but I do have a couple of points and disagreements.

Was that a post or War and Peace? Geez, I'd guess that it was longer than the entire CMS-CU game.

CMS won. Chapman lost. End of analysis. Just another basketball game in a continuing series. Time for the next game.

OxyBob

Hear...Hear....Let's stop talking about Chapman!

Gotta rep the stags, but I agree, time to stop chattering about Chapman.. they have the independents thread thats so popular..

Looking forward, Stags have 3 GSACs games coming up. I know Scali does it for the competition among other reasons, but it also would be nice to get some D3 east coast powers coming to our place during winter to get exposure and good D3 record. Regardless, Hope Concordia and PLNU will provide STIFF challenges for the Stags..

EDITED to discombobulate the quote

[OxyBob]

Great Post OldChap, but I do have a couple of points and disagreements.

Was that a post or War and Peace? Geez, I'd guess that it was longer than the entire CMS-CU game.

CMS won. Chapman lost. End of analysis. Just another basketball game in a continuing series. Time for the next game.

Hear...Hear....Let's stop talking about Chapman!

The SCIAC season is like a wall in our living room. On it we have pictures of our family -- CMS, Pomona, Whittier, Oxy, UR, CIT, ULV, and CLU. Each new season we take the pictures down and repaint the wall. But before we paint we have to fill in the nail holes with some nonconference games before the SCIAC season begins. So, basically, Chapman is Spackle.



OxyBob

[fhsutiger]

Great Post OldChap, but I do have a couple of points and disagreements.

Was that a post or War and Peace? Geez, I'd guess that it was longer than the entire CMS-CU game.

CMS won. Chapman lost. End of analysis. Just another basketball game in a continuing series. Time for the next game.

Hear...Hear....Let's stop talking about Chapman!

The SCIAC season is like a wall in our living room. On it we have pictures of our family -- CMS, Pomona, Whittier, Oxy, UR, CIT, ULV, and CLU. Each new season we take the pictures down and repaint the wall. But before we paint we have to fill in the nail holes with some nonconference games before the SCIAC season begins. So, basically, Chapman is Spackle.



OxyBob

When do we Start!

[OxyBob]

Looking forward, Stags have 3 GSACs games coming up. I know Scali does it for the competition among other reasons, but it also would be nice to get some D3 east coast powers coming to our place during winter to get exposure and good D3 record. Regardless, Hope Concordia and PLNU will provide STIFF challenges for the Stags

Since 2002, CMS is 6-13 against the GSAC, with three wins against Hope International, two against Point Loma, and one against Westmont. Good SCIAC teams always have a shot against Hope, Vanguard, San Diego Christian, and sometimes Point Loma, but the other 7 GSAC teams not so much. As for Concordia, they're 10-0 and ranked No. 2 in NAIA-1. It would be a major achievement for CMS to beat the Eagles.

OxyBob

[oldchap]

Great Post OldChap, but I do have a couple of points and disagreements.

Since I appear to have overstayed my welcome on this particular forum I will make it brief. Stag44, let's just agree to disagree. I'm looking forward to a rematch in (hopefully) the first round of the playoffs.

Regardless, at the end of the day its pretty simple: The stags won. They did it on the road. They did it shorthanded. They did it against a clown referee crew. Basically, the Stags came in with a goal and took care of business.

One point though: in a basketball argument, never, ever bring up the refs. These refs were no better and no worse than your average D3 refs, made good calls as well as plenty of mistakes, but over the course of the entire game, the errors they made fell on both sides. A coach once told me: "in order to win a game, you have to be so much superior to the other team that even bad calls won't change the final result".

The SCIAC season is like a wall in our living room. On it we have pictures of our family -- CMS, Pomona, Whittier, Oxy, UR, CIT, ULV, and CLU. Each new season we take the pictures down and repaint the wall. But before we paint we have to fill in the nail holes with some nonconference games before the SCIAC season begins. So, basically, Chapman is Spackle.

OxyBob

That Chapman spackle on your wall must have looked pretty darn ugly last year, that Oxy this year decided to go for the much better looking and easier to paint over, spackle from the likes of West Coast Baptist and American Sports University AND La Sierra...

[Gregory Sager]

Don't get me wrong, Chapman is a VERY talented team and their coach is EXCELLENT, but they HAVE TO run the table to consider going to the tournament. It will be very difficult to justify their bid unless they have no bad losses. Lets be honest, the NCAA has a severe east coast bias, primarily because of the concentration of teams out there, and there are AT MOST 3 teams that will represent the ENTIRE west coast. So, if either the SCIAC or NWC has 2 bid, Chapman may squeeze in with a bid and create at 4 team regional, but the NCAA would rather have play-in game on the west.

That "East Coast bias" thing is a myth, stag44. The D3 Championships Committee hews pretty closely to the five primary criteria outlined in the handbook:

The primary criteria emphasize regional competition (all contests leading up to NCAA
championships); all criteria listed will be evaluated (not listed in priority order).
•  Win-loss percentage against regional opponents.
•  Strength-of-schedule (only contests versus regional competition).
- Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP).
- Opponents' Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OOWP).
[See Appendix B for explanation of OWP and OOWP calculations.]
•  In-region head-to-head competition.
•  In-region results versus common regional opponents.
•  In-region results versus regionally ranked teams.

SCIAC and NWC teams are considered for Pool C berths upon the same criteria as the at-large teams in other parts of the country. And Chapman is considered for a Pool B berth upon the same criteria as well, except that the Panthers' competition is against the likes of Maryville, Nebraska Wesleyan, Rust, St. Joe's of Brooklyn, etc.

The West Coast has never had five teams in the tournament because the West Coast has never earned five teams in the tournament via the stated criteria in the handbook.

Looking forward, Stags have 3 GSACs games coming up. I know Scali does it for the competition among other reasons, but it also would be nice to get some D3 east coast powers coming to our place during winter to get exposure and good D3 record. Regardless, Hope Concordia and PLNU will provide STIFF challenges for the Stags..

No! You don't want "East Coast powers" coming to SoCal during winter! Well, it might be nice to see the likes of Williams or Amherst or F&M just for competition's sake, but the snowbirds that you should want to see coming to SoCal every winter are the midwest powers: WIAC teams, CCIW teams, top-tier MIAC, MWC, NAthC, or IIAC teams, etc. Those are the teams who count in terms of the five primary criteria I quoted above, because they -- and not the East Coast teams -- count as in-region games. Any game played against a team from the NCAA's administrative Region 4 -- which includes Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Minnesota -- counts as in-region for a SCIAC, NWC, or West Coast indie team.

In short ... the snowbirds that count are the ones from the midwestern prairie, not the ones from the eastern seaboard.

[OxyBob]

That Chapman spackle on your wall must have looked pretty darn ugly last year, that Oxy this year decided to go for the much better looking and easier to paint over, spackle from the likes of West Coast Baptist and American Sports University AND La Sierra...

Chapman schedule:

Jan. 6 Caltech
Jan. 11 West Coast Baptist
Jan. 13 La Sierra
Jan. 24 La Sierra
Feb. 6 La Sierra
Feb. 19 West Coast Baptist

And don't forget the two games against 0-5 Southwestern College.

Circle Jan. 23 vs. UDallas. Try not to F it up this time.

OxyBob

[Gregory Sager]

Don't get me wrong, Chapman is a VERY talented team and their coach is EXCELLENT, but they HAVE TO run the table to consider going to the tournament. It will be very difficult to justify their bid unless they have no bad losses.

One other thing: Chapman is in much, much better shape than you think. The Panthers are not only 7-1 overall, they're 7-1 in-region. Of the nine other teams that are listed as independents here, not a single one of them has a winning in-region record. Rust, which is 2-2, is the next-closest competitor among the indies.

Chapman, which has twelve in-region games left (LaVerne, Redlands, @ Whittier, @ Caltech, three against La Sierra and two against UC-Santa Cruz, the aforementioned game against Dallas whose outcome last year gave OxyBob no end of delight, and the end-of-season indie tourney at UCSC), is thus very much in the driver's seat for a Pool B bid. Barring an epic collapse by the Panthers, this will be the season in which they finally get a ticket to the dance.

[stag44]

Don't get me wrong, Chapman is a VERY talented team and their coach is EXCELLENT, but they HAVE TO run the table to consider going to the tournament. It will be very difficult to justify their bid unless they have no bad losses.

One other thing: Chapman is in much, much better shape than you think. The Panthers are not only 7-1 overall, they're 7-1 in-region. Of the nine other teams that are listed as independents here, not a single one of them has a winning in-region record. Rust, which is 2-2, is the next-closest competitor among the indies.

Chapman, which has twelve in-region games left (LaVerne, Redlands, @ Whittier, @ Caltech, three against La Sierra and two against UC-Santa Cruz, the aforementioned game against Dallas whose outcome last year gave OxyBob no end of delight, and the end-of-season indie tourney at UCSC), is thus very much in the driver's seat for a Pool B bid. Barring an epic collapse by the Panthers, this will be the season in which they finally get a ticket to the dance.

So if things go as planned then, it will probably be SCIAC vs Chapman in a first round game with the NWC getting a bye and playing the winner?

[Gregory Sager]

Don't get me wrong, Chapman is a VERY talented team and their coach is EXCELLENT, but they HAVE TO run the table to consider going to the tournament. It will be very difficult to justify their bid unless they have no bad losses.

One other thing: Chapman is in much, much better shape than you think. The Panthers are not only 7-1 overall, they're 7-1 in-region. Of the nine other teams that are listed as independents here, not a single one of them has a winning in-region record. Rust, which is 2-2, is the next-closest competitor among the indies.

Chapman, which has twelve in-region games left (LaVerne, Redlands, @ Whittier, @ Caltech, three against La Sierra and two against UC-Santa Cruz, the aforementioned game against Dallas whose outcome last year gave OxyBob no end of delight, and the end-of-season indie tourney at UCSC), is thus very much in the driver's seat for a Pool B bid. Barring an epic collapse by the Panthers, this will be the season in which they finally get a ticket to the dance.

So if things go as planned then, it will probably be SCIAC vs Chapman in a first round game with the NWC getting a bye and playing the winner?

I'd say that that's one of five likely scenarios:

* SCIAC Pool A vs. Chapman on Thursday at either school, winner @ NWC Pool A on Saturday (three teams, one flight)
* NWC Pool A vs. Chapman, NWC Pool B vs. SCIAC Pool A on Friday, @ either NWC Pool A or SCIAC Pool A (four teams, two flights)
* NWC Pool A vs. SCIAC Pool B, Chapman vs. SCIAC Pool A on Friday, @ NWC Pool A, SCIAC Pool A, or Chapman (four teams, two flights)
* NWC Pool A vs. Chapman, NWC Pool B vs. SCIAC Pool A on Friday, @ NWC Pool A, SCIAC Pool A, or Chapman (four teams, two flights)
* NWC Pool A, Chapman, SCIAC Pool A, and a fourth team from the other side of the Rockies on Friday, @ either Chapman or SCIAC Pool A (four teams, two flights)

I know that Chapman isn't too popular a program amongst you SCIAC types, but the Panthers are actually doing your league a favor on a couple of levels. One, their improved competitiveness and gaudy in-region record enhances your teams' strength of schedule; two, a Pool B bid for the Panthers drastically improves the possibility that there will be tournament basketball played in southern California in March due to the NCAA's maniacal insistence upon cutting down travel costs.

[Gregory Sager]

I noticed that Whittier gave undefeated (and fifth-ranked in NAIA-1) Biola a good game last night in Biola's gym. Biola won, 77-66, and led the entire game, but the Poets had the Eagles' lead down to seven points with a minute and change remaining. The Eagles ended the game with their starters still on the floor. Seems to me that that's a pretty good performance for what must've been a seriously outmanned Whittier team.

[stag44]

Thanks for all that analysis Greg!! As a player, I really didnt delve too deeply into the background of NCAA selection, and just always thought the NCAA was anti-CMS (I was marred by the 05-06 OXY-CMS debacle).
Really appreciate it though, looking forward to having CMS host this year!

I noticed that Whittier gave undefeated (and fifth-ranked in NAIA-1) Biola a good game last night in Biola's gym. Biola won, 77-66, and led the entire game, but the Poets had the Eagles' lead down to seven points with a minute and change remaining. The Eagles ended the game with their starters still on the floor. Seems to me that that's a pretty good performance for what must've been a seriously outmanned Whittier team.

Looking at Whittier's roster it looks like Rock just reloaded them. They have a kickback from The Master's (NAIA-1) in Menez, and got Perry back from injury. It was surprising to see them receiving votes on the polls, but it seems like thier pre-season play merits it. It will be interesting once conference rolls around though and teams can gameplan and scout. Whittier always seems to finish middle of the pack and is good for 1 or 2 upsets or unexpeceted wins.

[OxyBob]

Lets not get started on the NCAA debacle in the 05-06 year.

(I was marred by the 05-06 OXY-CMS debacle)

Bitterness, thy name is CMS.

OxyBob