MBB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[stag44]

Lets not get started on the NCAA debacle in the 05-06 year.

(I was marred by the 05-06 OXY-CMS debacle)

Bitterness, thy name is CMS.

OxyBob

haha, it still stings... i feel the worst for Taylor and Parsons though..

[Gregory Sager]

It was surprising to see them receiving votes on the polls, but it seems like thier pre-season play merits it.

I hate to sound like a broken record:



... but it's non-conference, not preseason.

[cmsme]

Regarding the "War and Peace" postings--I appreciate them.  I like the longer, more analytical posting instead of the one line zingers. 
Its interesting knowing how teams qualify for the play offs, and how the defense is doing.  I can't see or hear, so I appreciate the details. 
And why isn't Chapman part of the league?  They seem like family.

[stag44]

And why isn't Chapman part of the league?  They seem like family.

From my understanding, some of the reason stems from their academic standards. I know the SCIAC has some academic baselines that all teams must have for incoming students, and I THINK that Chapman may come up short in some of them.

Also, there's always talk of swapping CalTech for Champan to make conference more competitive, but I don't think the ADs have ever come to a decision that would do that. The SCIAC changed about 15 or so years ago by adding CLU who was NAIA before that.

Even though they are not a part of our conference, they more or less do play everyteam in SCIAC in almost every sport during our NON-conference (for you Gregory Sager).

[CMSfan]

From my understanding, some of the reason stems from their academic standards. I know the SCIAC has some academic baselines that all teams must have for incoming students, and I THINK that Chapman may come up short in some of them.

I don't know all that much about the history of SCIAC or why Chapman isn't a part of the conference.  I do know that Chapman's academic standards have risen quite a bit in recent years, and that they are certainly on par with some SCIAC schools in terms of the profile of incoming students.  There may be other academic factors at play, of course, but I can't speak to that...

[Gray Fox]

La Sierra will get in ahead of Chapman.  They are more in line size-wise than Chapman, and it would give a team for Cal Tech to fight it out with for the cellar.

I would like to thank all you Chapman guys for your various postings for helping me to think this through to the only logical conclusion.   

[oldchap]

Regarding the "War and Peace" postings--I appreciate them.  I like the longer, more analytical posting instead of the one line zingers. 

cmsme, Thank you for the vote of confidence! I am definitely a Chapman fan, however I make every effort in my posts to be as objective as a fan can be and to remain civil and to be a good citizen of this blog. I usually don't get a lot of love because I'm not part of the SCIAC family, but I'm a big boy and I can take the heat.

Speaking of family, thank you for suggesting that Chapman should be part of the SCIAC. I don't have first hand knowledge of why Chapman, which fully deserve in my opinion to be part of this fine conference, isn't part of it. However I have heard what the Chapman coaching staff has said about it and what their opinion is, therefore I have some ideas.

According to the coaching staff, Chapman made two formal demands to be part of the SCIAC. The first one occurred a while back, exactly when I don't know, but it must have been more than 10 years ago. The second was more recent. The SCIAC committee turned down both requests, the first time because they said Chapman was too small and the second time because it was too big. Now, I can understand why you wouldn't want a school with more than 4,000 students compete in a league where the average is less than half of that. But both statements may point to the fact that the SCIAC just doesn't want Chapman, period. Some people at Chapman rightfully think that's because it would take away a chance at the playoffs for some of the schools which regularly win the Conference (CMS, Oxy, PP), due to the fact that most years, Chapman is competitive enough that they would end up in the top 4 with a decent shot at winning it.

I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of heat for these comments but being an Independent, especially on the West Coast, is really tough. You have to scramble each year to fill your season with meaningful games, you have to balance your strength of schedule with a good winning percentage without necessarily knowing in advance which teams are going to be good, and you can't have a bad game the entire season. Meanwhile, Conference teams don't want to play against you during their Conference play, making the entire exercise all that much more difficult.

Last point: Is Chapman being not "academic" enough the main reason it can't be part of the SCIAC? While Occidental College, Caltech and Pomona-Pitzer have very stringent admission criteria and usually make little or no exception for their athletes, CLU, Redlands, Whittier and La Verne, while worthwhile institutions are on par or possibly worse than Chapman when it comes to selectivity. A quick look at admission statistics will tell you that.  So this argument doesn't hold water.

It would make definite sense to see Chapman part of the SCIAC. However, it is unfortunately not its decision.

[Gregory Sager]

The obvious solution is to find four more schools that are willing to go through the D3 admission process and form a new league based around the current California D3 indie trio of UC-Santa Cruz, Chapman, and La Sierra. The most logical new recruit would be Southwestern. Although it's a pain to include a school that's located in Phoenix in a California-based conference, the Eagles do sponsor nine varsity sports, so they're close to qualifying for the D3 minimum of ten. Southwestern joined the NAIA this year, and is competing as an independent in NAIA Division II in basketball.

Southwestern's currently a member of the Pacific Christian Athletic Conference, a barely-there league that consists of a handful of evangelical schools located up and down the West Coast that really don't seem to play anything besides volleyball and basketball. Their ranks include another familiar face to D3's Cali indies, West Coast Baptist, which only sponsors men's and women's basketball and women's volleyball and is thus not a likely candidate for D3 membership.

[OxyBob]

Eyewitness report from Fullerton:

Cal State Fullerton 97, Oxy 59

Cal State Fullerton, which has a double overtime win against UCLA at Pauley Pavilion this season, dispatched Oxy with ease. The operative word that comes to mind is "too" -- too big, too quick, too fast, too much.

In the first half, after Deshun McCoy's jumper cut the lead to 9-5 at 15:50, CSUF ran off 13 points in 4 minutes and led 22-5. Jack Hanley made a jumper and Sean Anderson hit 2 FTs to get Oxy back to 27-12, but Fullerton scored the next 11 to make it 38-12, and the Titans finished of the half with another 11-0 run and led 58-19 at the half. Fullerton just couldn't miss; the Titans shot 70% on 21-for-30 FGs, including 15-for-20 on 3-balls.

In the second half, Oxy held its own against the Fullerton non-starters, winning the half 40-39.

For Oxy, Eric Leider played an outstanding game against the bigger and quicker CSUF guards, scoring 16 on 6-for-12 FGs and 4-for-6 on 3s, plus 3 rebounds and 2 assists. Jack Hanley found his outside shooting touch with 16 points on 6-for-9 FGs and 2-for-2 on 3-balls. Deshun McCoy scored 14 points and grabbed 9 rebounds. After shooting only 32% in the first half, the Tigers picked it up and shot 52% in the second half, including 7-for-10 on 3s.

Oxy is now 5-2, while Cal State Fullerton improved to 4-3.

It gets no easier for Oxy next week, as SMU, coached by former UNC standout Matt Doherty, will be in Rush Gymnasium on Dec. 19 at 2:00 p.m.

I don't know all that much about the history of SCIAC or why Chapman isn't a part of the conference. 

Every year the same discussion. It doesn't matter why Chapman is not in the SCIAC. Who knows and who cares. Fact is, Chapman is not in the SCIAC and is never going to be in the SCIAC, so the Chapman fans can stop speculating why they're not in the SCIAC. Too bad so sad bye bye already.

OxyBob

[Gray Fox]

I saw SMU play their first game of the season.  It has been a few years since I've been to one of their games.  They are bigger and stronger than what I remember, but at least they won't be the threat with the three point shots that CSUF was.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/smu/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/cumulative-stats.pdf

[OxyBob]

I saw SMU play their first game of the season.  It has been a few years since I've been to one of their games.  They are bigger and stronger than what I remember, but at least they won't be the threat with the three point shots that CSUF was.

SMU has Myles Luttman, a 6'11" junior transfer from San Diego City College, Tomasz Kwiatkowski, a 7'1" junior from Poland, Papa Dia, a 6'9" junior from Senegal, Mouhammad Faye, a 6'9" senior from Senegal by way of Georgia Tech, and Robert Nyakundi, a 6'8" redshirt sophomore from Arlington, to go along with a couple of 6'4" and 6'5" guards. It'll be a challenge for Oxy, to say the least.

Looking forward, Stags have 3 GSACs games coming up. I know Scali does it for the competition among other reasons, but it also would be nice to get some D3 east coast powers coming to our place during winter to get exposure and good D3 record. Regardless, Hope Concordia and PLNU will provide STIFF challenges for the Stags

Since 2002, CMS is 6-13 against the GSAC, with three wins against Hope International, two against Point Loma, and one against Westmont. Good SCIAC teams always have a shot against Hope, Vanguard, San Diego Christian, and sometimes Point Loma, but the other 7 GSAC teams not so much.

Claremont 75, Hope International 63 Final
Chris Blees 22 pts and 12 rebs, Patrick Lacey 15, Connor Faught 12

Nice win for D-III over NAIA-1.

Meanwhile, in other SCIAC vs. GSAC action...

Biola 53, Pomona 38 Final
Justin Sexton 11 pts and 7 rebs
9-0 Biola only shot 40%, but the Sagehens only shot 32.6% and made only 14 shots, 7 of which were made by Sexton and Donald Okpalugo.

Azusa Pacific 93, Redlands 75 Final
Matt Dietrich 12, Justin Sobczyk and Andrew Maertens 11 each, Andrew Mills 10 pts and 9 rebs.

And in other action...

Chapman barely hung on and beat La Verne 64-63.

Cal Lutheran beat La Sierra 89-65. Six players in double figures for CLU.

OxyBob

[Gray Fox]

SMU won the ConferenceUSA last year, but didn't make the NCAA tourney.

[oldchap]

Claremont 75, Hope International 63 Final
Chris Blees 22 pts and 12 rebs, Patrick Lacey 15, Connor Faught 12

Nice win for D-III over NAIA-1.

Chapman barely hung on and beat La Verne 64-63.

OxyBob

Here is what OxyBob wrote about Chapman's victory last year against Vanguard, a team every bit as good as and arguably better than Hope International:

Congratulations on another meaningless win against one of the crappy GSAC teams.

OxyBob

Chapman beat both Vanguard and Hope last year, yet they were "crappy" teams. This year, one win for Claremont against one of these "crappy" teams is considered a "nice" win.

As for Chapman win yesterday against La Verne, here is what OxyBob said about CMS previous win by one point against Chapman:

CMS won. Chapman lost. End of analysis. Just another basketball game in a continuing series. Time for the next game.

OxyBob

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[David Collinge]

Ooh, that OxyBob is just downright unfair!  He's just a meanie!

[oldchap]

Ooh, that OxyBob is just downright unfair!  He's just a meanie!

hahaha... Nope. I swore I wouldn't let him get away with anything. Besides, the two of us are best buddies. It's just downright fun to trade barbs with such a witty guy like him.