MBB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[OxyBob]

CMS - The Stags return 2-time defending POY Chris Blees and will be looking to 3-peat ... With Blees, Lacey and Anderson returning in the front-court, the Stags should be a load on the block and defensively.

Geez, how many years is Patrick Lacey going to play? What is this, Dan Selway University?

Claremont will be tough to beat, as usual.

Where's OXY ??    

Fact: Chapman refuses to play Oxy.

OxyBob

[CrashDavisD3]

CMS - The Stags return 2-time defending POY Chris Blees and will be looking to 3-peat ... With Blees, Lacey and Anderson returning in the front-court, the Stags should be a load on the block and defensively.

Geez, how many years is Patrick Lacey going to play? What is this, Dan Selway University?

Claremont will be tough to beat, as usual.

Where's OXY ??    

Fact: Chapman refuses to play Oxy.

OxyBob

You think that can still work if Chapman becomes a member of the SCIAC....Maybe Oxy should refuse playing Chapman in football and baseball 

[OxyBob]

if Chapman becomes a member of the SCIAC

Dream on. Will never happen.

OxyBob

[stag44]

Geez, how many years is Patrick Lacey going to play? What is this, Dan Selway University?

Claremont will be tough to beat, as usual.

[/quote]

Oxybob,

This is actually Lacey's 3rd year at CMS. He came from USD as a frosh transfer and is completing a masters at the college. So, academically he is a graduate student, but fulfilling his last year of athletic eligibility.

He'll be a load on the block this year and will benefit from the attention Blees will receive.

Whats the news from the Oxy camp? They have McCoy and Hanley, and im sure Newhall brought in some talent

[OxyBob]

Whats the news from the Oxy camp? They have McCoy and Hanley, and im sure Newhall brought in some talent

No seniors on the team. 10 freshmen on the roster. Of the guys who played major minutes last season, Jack Hanley, Deshun McCoy, and Jake Copithorne are back. Eric Leider, who averaged 9.2 ppg as a freshman, is not on the roster.

OxyBob

[Gray Fox]

Whats the news from the Oxy camp? They have McCoy and Hanley, and im sure Newhall brought in some talent

No seniors on the team. 10 freshmen on the roster. Of the guys who played major minutes last season, Jack Hanley, Deshun McCoy, and Jake Copithorne are back. Eric Leider, who averaged 9.2 ppg as a freshman, is not on the roster.

OxyBob

As of today, the roster is described as "tentative".  No seniors makes them an even better threat next year.

[Sabretooth Tiger]

if Chapman becomes a member of the SCIAC

Dream on. Will never happen.

OxyBob

I wouldn't bet the farm if I were you.

[OxyBob]

if Chapman becomes a member of the SCIAC

Dream on. Will never happen.

I wouldn't bet the farm if I were you.

The SCIAC will rue the day it lets Chapman into the conference.

OxyBob

[CrashDavisD3]

if Chapman becomes a member of the SCIAC

Dream on. Will never happen.

I wouldn't bet the farm if I were you.

The SCIAC will rue the day it lets Chapman into the conference.

OxyBob

OB is hoping Chapman don't get in so they don't get a regular beating in other sports like Panthers gave the Tigers this year in football....Chapman has been playing SCIAC teams for over 70 years...Why not let them in ?

Why is OB afraid of letting Chapman in the SCIAC...

Dont claim academics.....since Chapman is in the middle of the SCIAC if you compared today.  

Sports competition. Chapman beats SCIAC teams in all sports. SCIAC teams beat Chapman...
so that cant be the reason....

Are you jealous of something

You got smarter students but overall weaker sports teams ?
Chapman has  6 NCAA national championships. Occidental has graduated 10 Rhodes Scholars.

You are Tigers, Chapman are Panthers.....must be a species prejudice thing

[Sabretooth Tiger]

The institutional athletic philosophies and resources of SCIAC schools run the gamut and lack the consistency one might normally like see across a conference.  Adding Chapman will only heighten the distinctions away from parity/consistency . . . which may be the point OB is making, though I certainly cannot speak for him.

[CrashDavisD3]

The institutional athletic philosophies and resources of SCIAC schools run the gamut and lack the consistency one might normally like see across a conference.  Adding Chapman will only heighten the distinctions away from parity/consistency . . . which may be the point OB is making, though I certainly cannot speak for him.

Parity where in Athletics....Cal Tech has not won games in SCIAC in baseball and basketball in years and does not play football.

Parity in Academics. Not quite.....even close from top to bottom in SCIAC today.

Institutional athletic philosophies and resources. Cal Lu has spent tons of money for beautiful athletic venues. Athletic Philosphies..It seems SCIAC teams compete for D3 playoff spots each year. Not sure what these words mean..

Consistency of what...You dont have parity and consistency today. Chapman does not make it any better or any worse. Also there is a lot of pressure from the NCAA to have independents to join conferences. I can't see why it wont happen but I could be wrong. Won't be the first time. Chapman already plays SCIAC teams now in most sports and has for years. Not really getting the point without more details rather than personal prejudice.

Since 1915 teams have left, joined, left and rejoined the conference WHY should there be change again. I have not heard a valid reason yet. Cal Tech, Pomona, La Verne and Whittier all have left the conference in prior years only to rejoin later. Cal Lu joined. Even Chapman was in the SCIAC for a few years. What makes Chapman so special that they dont deserve to be in the SCIAC
http://www.thesciac.org/information/about/index

[Sabretooth Tiger]

I didn't say that Chapman shouldn't be in the SCIAC. Frankly, I think there are good arguments on both sides, but overall, I think it makes sense to admit Chapman to the SCIAC.

Also, my point was that there is no parity now . . . it is very diverse . . . and that adding Chapman does not improve any desire to achieve parity. That is merely a personal observation, I have no sense that is a league goal.

[CrashDavisD3]

I didn't say that Chapman shouldn't be in the SCIAC. Frankly, I think there are good arguments on both sides, but overall, I think it makes sense to admit Chapman to the SCIAC.

Also, my point was that there is no parity now . . . it is very diverse . . . and that adding Chapman does not improve any desire to achieve parity. That is merely a personal observation, I have no sense that is a league goal.

You are exactly right about the  huge differences today in the SCIAC conference with parity issueswith both academics and athletic focus.  Cal Tech and Cal Lu would be an examples. Both are fine schools but with a different focus and different types of students. In a perfect world the SCIAC would be 2 different conferences to better align the teams and their focus but there are not enough teams to do that unless the NAIA GSAC conference became a DIII conference...Excellent feedback. Thanks for you point of view.

[OxyBob]

Adding Chapman will only heighten the distinctions away from parity/consistency

The largest SCIAC school is Redlands with 2,950 students. Chapman is more than twice that. From the Orange County Register:

And the university is preparing for significantly larger enrollment. The Orange campus currently has 6,200 students. Within a few years, that figure is expected to reach 7,000, and Doti says Chapman has long-term plans to add some type of engineering school and to greatly expand into the health sciences.

The enrollment at Chapman has doubled since 1992, and it has no intention of stopping its expansion. This has been going on for years. From the Los Angeles Times, November, 1989:

Neighbors Oppose Chapman College Plan
Growth: Residents vow to fight what could be a 50% increase in enrollment.

Chapman College and residents in the surrounding neighborhood in Orange are at odds over the new college president's plans to increase enrollment 50% over the next five years and to rename the private college Chapman University.

"We will fight it; we will not put up with any more expansion," said Carole Walters, leader of the Orange Concerned Citizens Group, an organization of about 25 neighbors who have opposed expansion of the college. "What we want from Chapman College is communication, and we haven't gotten that yet."

Chapman is a for-profit cash cow. It owns the the separate, working adult-oriented Brandman University, which has 10,000 students. Despite what it says, Chapman is unlike the SCIAC schools. It's too big for the conference and aims to get bigger. The SCIAC gains nothing by admitting Chapman because SCIAC schools can continue to play Chapman as schedule filler (except for Chapman men's basketball, which refuses to play Oxy). Let Chapman go NAIA and join the GSAC or go D-II and join the CCAA. Stay the hell out of our nice, little conference.

OxyBob

[dahlby]

OxyBob:

To correct the record....Oxy refuses to play Chapman in men's basketball. I am sure that was just a
typo on your part.

Your  quote from the LA Times was from 1989, have things changed since then, as it has been 11 years ago the statement was made.? And the quote referred to only 25 people? If they are fighting growth now (which still might be the case), then why has the city approved all the new facilities that Chapman has built since then?

Also the undergraduate enrollmen is just over 4,000, with the balance being graduate school attendees
and the like. Last I heard is that Chapman has indicated that the goal was to go to around 8,000 including graduate students, but this may have changed downward from what I hear.

I am not in a position to comment one way or the other regarding the SCIAC situation. The purpose of this post is to simply update the facts as I understand them to be.

Thanks for your interest in Chapman University. It is most appreciated, although this is the SCIAC board.


Cheers!