MBB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[WoostAr]

I think its pretty interesting to note that the two schools with the most rigorous admissions standards and academics once enrolled still have the best 2 programs in the conference.

Just saying, Caltech's in the conference...I don't know how this statement can be made.  However, I do agree it is quite impressive that a schools with such rigorous academics can compete year in year out.

Oxy
This team has taken a turn for the worst since the new year, going 0-3, all being big double digit losses....Montoya continues to score like crazy but is struggling with efficiency (shooting under 40%)

In the last 3 games, Montoya has a total of 13 points on 3 of 21 shooting, probably where some of their problems are coming from -- the problem for Oxy is he is not scoring like crazy at the moment.

[sciacguru]

However, I do agree it is quite impressive that a schools with such rigorous academics can compete year in year out.

??

I think it's just the opposite.  Besides the state schools....cough, cough....(WIAC).....I think you will find the high academic "destination" schools able to compete at a high level every year.  Normally these schools have a broader recruiting base, bigger endowments (financial aid), and greater sustainability.  Typically these schools produce the same type of players (cookie cutters) year in and year out.  Pomona and CMS are no different....and Chapman is heading in this direction.  Here are some just to name a few:

Amherst
Williams
Wash U.
Chicago
MIT
Rochester
Illinois Wes.

And yes, you will have schools come up and win, but will they sustain it??  It boils down to financial aid, and typically most, if not all, of the higher academic D3 schools competing with the IVYs, can meet need for their students.  And you will find that 3 of the lowest student graduating debt schools across the nation are right here in the SCIAC......Pomona, Claremont, CIT.

Here are a few links.
http://www.dailyfinance.com/photos/private-colleges-with-the-lowest-student-graduating-debt/#!slide=981583

http://www.kiplinger.com/tool/college/T014-S001-kiplinger-s-best-values-in-private-colleges/index.php?table=lib_arts&state_code[]=ALL&id[]=none&sortby=ug_class_avg_debt_d&sortorder=ASC

This in no way diminishes the coaching ability of the Head coaches of these institutions.  But you must take into consideration which schools have the best financial aid directors/policies as well. Especially at the D3 level.  Big difference in $40,000+ debt after graduation vs. less than $20.000.

[Evolution]

Interesting discussion about how rigorous academic schools can sustain winning programs.

I believe that sustaining a winning program depends on the flexibility that the coach has negotiated with the admissions department.  At some schools, Coaches are allowed to write letters to help "push a student" through admissions.  Some of those athletes might be in the lowest quartile, or even lower, of the admission criteria. The amount of weight the admissions department assigns to the Coach's letter will directly correlate to the sustainability of a winning program.

In recent years parents and players have had avenues in which to exchange academic information prior to admission in hopes of allowing each parent to better game the admission process. I believe that the information parents share is truthful, and I have no reason to not believe it was truthful.  I could personally name over ten star athletes in the above named "sustained" programs who had lower gpas and much lower test scores than their classmates, and I am referring to below even the lowest published quartile.

An athlete attending a rigorously academic school does not necessarily imply that the athlete is on par academically with his classmates.

One could argue that the admissions rate is a good indicator of academic rigor.  Perhaps at some schools this is the case.  But the admission's rate statistic is skewed in that some students don't even bother to apply to schools after they review the quartiles.  In other words, at very high academic schools, especially STEM schools, students do the first major round of rejection themselves. Very few potential applicants at Caltech would even begin the lengthy application process unless they had already attained a perfect math SAT score and a perfect math SAT subject score.

To push the envelope I maintain:
"Sustainability of a winning program is determined by the adopted protocol each admissions department employs for processing athletic applications."

Along similar lines on analysis, exactly how many basketball players on the CMS team are enrolled from the thousand or so students attending Harvey Mudd?  None this year, and only a handful in years past.  The team name Claremont Mudd Scripps is a misnomer.

[madzillagd]

Here's a link to a D3Hoops article on Arik Smith for CLU...
http://d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-region/midwest-west/2013-14/coming-home-to-cal-lutheran


On the topic of academics and sustaining a winning program, I really think it comes down to the Admissions office, the President of the university and of course the coaching staff.  My nephew happens to play for one of those schools listed and it's been quite the education going through the process of admissions and seeing how the teams are built by the various coaches.  Different coaches, different amount of clout with the admissions office and it goes in cycles in terms of who they can recruit and bring in.  Something far more common in the Northeast is the use of Post Graduate years before athletes start at a 4 year university as well. 

[WoostAr]

New video on Caltech Basketball's facebook page...kind of fun.

https://www.facebook.com/caltechbasketball

[Hoops_lover]

stag44, once again your awesome with your early season observation.  I really did not detect any bias...spoke from the heart.  Chapman plays La Verne tonight and I'm very interested to see if Bokosky and the staff has come up with something to take away the "easy" lay ups and box out better.  I repeat, Joyce, Nick Dragovich and Justin Young need to step up with their help side defense and the entire team needs to communicate screens/switches.  The loss at PP was quite frustrating, especially when Chapman could have pulled away except for the defensive issues which allows wide open shots and/or easy lay ups and lets teams back into the games.  James carried the team in the first half and Zavrsnick in the second half.  Hamasaki had an off-night with about three shots rimming in and out and he missed three free throws?!?!?  He did nail a jump shot as time was winding down, that tied the game in regulation. A regular game for him and Chapman wins.
Agree with stag44 comments abut La Verne.  I think if a team comes in thinking they're going to win, La Verne kicks their butt.  Energy and emotion will give you victories here and there but maybe not get you to the playoffs.  I think they and Whittier are similar.  CLU has Powdrill, the best athletic big man in the conference and along with Smith and an improved Quintana, I think they can knock off PP or CMC.  Redlands is the team that is most dangerous.  They are starting to figure it out and like CMC and PP, play solid bball.  I think 10-6 gets a team into the 4th slot of the playoffs.

[John Gleich]

However, I do agree it is quite impressive that a schools with such rigorous academics can compete year in year out.

??

I think it's just the opposite.  Besides the state schools....cough, cough....(WIAC).....I think you will find the high academic "destination" schools able to compete at a high level every year.

Rag on the WIAC if you must, but they're far from the only public schools in d3. New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Texas, Minnesota,  even California all have public schools in the division.

For the record,  UWSP's team GPA after the first semester was 3.4. That's academic success no matter where it is.

[dahlby]

In Wednesday night SCIAC action, Chapman slipped by ULV in a back and forth contest, 65-64.

Stats and recap at:        www.chapmanathletics.com

[OxyBob]

Oxy
Montoya continues to score like crazy but is struggling with efficiency (shooting under 40%)

In the last 3 games, Montoya has a total of 13 points on 3 of 21 shooting, probably where some of their problems are coming from -- the problem for Oxy is he is not scoring like crazy at the moment.

Last night Pomona beat Oxy 68-60. An 8-0 Pomona run midway through the second half was the difference. Andrew Johnson scored 18 and had 10 rebounds for Oxy. Kris Montoya scored 2 points (FTs) in 37 minutes. In the last 4 games Montoya has scored 15 points on 3-for-27 shooting. Not sure what's going on there. Four Sagehens in double figures for Pomona.

OxyBob

[WoostAr]

For the record,  UWSP's team GPA after the first semester was 3.4. That's academic success no matter where it is.

A 3.4 is nothing to scoff at, but that kind of gpa at a tech school (Claremont College, MIT, Caltech) is slightly more difficult to maintain.

Here's the difference, all of Caltech's players IN HIGH SCHOOL did research that most people would do in graduate school...just read their bio's http://gocaltech.com/sports/mbkb/2013-14/roster

In the last 4 games Montoya has scored 15 points on 3-for-27 shooting. Not sure what's going on there. Four Sagehens in double figures for Pomona.

OxyBob

Do you think that conference opponents have his tendencies figured out?


Caltech had two twenty point scorers against Whittier last night with Emezie and Hogue...just not enough to get past Whittier, though the game was close at times...lost 86-72...Whittier had two players score 17 and two others score 16.

[OxyBob]

In the last 4 games Montoya has scored 15 points on 3-for-27 shooting. Not sure what's going on there.

Do you think that conference opponents have his tendencies figured out?

No.

Montoya has scored over 1,000 points and averaged double figures in four seasons with Oxy.

Hopefully for Oxy's sake he's just in a slump and will shake it soon.

OxyBob

[Evolution]

Caltech was scrappy the whole game and got to within 4 with a lay-up from freshman Lango with a little over ten minutes to go.

Whittier's athleticism forced Caltech into a 1-2-2 zone which was busted by the impressive shooting of sophomore guard Eric  Jennings who hit 5 of 8 threes.  Two of his threes were literally back to back -- within twenty seconds and proved to be back breakers for Caltech's second half surge towards the ever elusive (arguably) dream of a conference win.

Landrum and Irwin got into foul trouble early which allowed playing time to be spread.  Whittier is a pretty young team, too.   Good things in store for the Poets.

Only other thing worth mentioning is that Caltech held turnovers to 10, fewest this year.

[Pat Coleman]

However, I do agree it is quite impressive that a schools with such rigorous academics can compete year in year out.

??

I think it's just the opposite.  Besides the state schools....cough, cough....(WIAC).....I think you will find the high academic "destination" schools able to compete at a high level every year.

Rag on the WIAC if you must, but they're far from the only public schools in d3. New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Texas, Minnesota,  even California all have public schools in the division.

For the record,  UWSP's team GPA after the first semester was 3.4. That's academic success no matter where it is.

Virginia, Maryland, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Maine, Connecticut as well ...

[(509)Rat]

Regardless of who's public or not, we all have to admit Caltech has us beat in terms of academic accomplishments amongst their student athletes.

Only a couple other schools in the country could argue that...certainly not us in the NWC or any of the public schools. Beat em on the court and let them win when it comes to research.

[sciacguru]

However, I do agree it is quite impressive that a schools with such rigorous academics can compete year in year out.

??

I think it's just the opposite.  Besides the state schools....cough, cough....(WIAC).....I think you will find the high academic "destination" schools able to compete at a high level every year.

Rag on the WIAC if you must, but they're far from the only public schools in d3. New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Texas, Minnesota,  even California all have public schools in the division.

For the record,  UWSP's team GPA after the first semester was 3.4. That's academic success no matter where it is.

Virginia, Maryland, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Maine, Connecticut as well ...

At no point did I infer that UWSP, or any WIAC school is poor academically.  I think that it is great that the Pointers are successful both on and off the court.  That is the epitome of Division III.  What I meant to infer is that particularly the WIAC schools, of all the state schools, have the foundation to be successful every year.  Sure, their admissions standards may be lower than that of the aforementioned  "high academic" schools, but so are the majority of private schools throughout D3.  What separates them is their foundation of cost, size, academic scholarships, and facilities that rival some D1 schools. 
I wont go into full research, but I'm pretty sure that there is a team from the WIAC that is a serious contender for a national title in each sport, every year.  And for the schools that can not satisfy all or some of the qualities for a strong foundation, their teams will be successful cyclically or not at all.