MBB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[(509)Rat]

I respectfully disagree with others.  I think the 26 hours turn around on games was quite taxing on Cal Lu.  After almost owning CMS on their own court the night before, Arik was a dismal 2 for 10 in the first half against Chapman and only 1 for 5 from threes for the entire game.  It was obvious to me, sitting behind the bench, his legs were exhausted.  Yet he continued to play with abandon.

Even though they won't because of "academic concerns," maybe the SCIAC should go Friday/Saturday league games. If the short turnaround is so taxing for your players, it's probably why you can't beat NWC teams come tournament time. Teams who play on back-to-back nights all season. Chapman is totally screwed if they get past UT-Dallas (for the record I think they can). But playing again 24 hours later? It's really a slap in the face to competitiveness and fairness. An injustice. How is it fair that they be forced to play the next day when it clearly is not enough time for a young athlete, who trains all year round, to recover? I think we should start a petition you guys.

[elfinley]

The schedule and turnaround CANNOT be an excuse. Cal Lu is not the only team that had to face such a schedule. It is the nature of the sport.

[dahlby]

elfinely,
I think (509)Rat had his tongue pushed hard against his cheek  (similar to what D O.C. does).
The young hoopsters can play back to back. Some even have a shoot around Saturday morning.

[madzillagd]

Yep, this talk is starting to irritate me.  The issue is not with the turnaround, the issue rests squarely on the shoulders of the coach.  It is up to the coach to make sure his rotation is solid so that he doesn't negativity impact the performance of his players.  There's not a lot of leeway when you win a game by 1 point to say he should have done much differently, but the reality is he played his starters a ton of minutes in Game 1 which means they didn't have much in the tank for Game 2.  That's the choice that was made (and I can't say it was wrong because maybe that's what won the game), but it wasn't the only option available.  Wade played 6 minutes in the first game after averaging 15 mpg throughout the season.  Sulker-Hall played 6 mins in Game 1 after averaging 19 mins a game during the season.  Lynott - 9 mins in Game 1, averaged 20 mpg during the year. 

If you are looking for something that impacted the legs of the players in Game 2 of the tournament, look no further than how Game 1 was coached and how many more minutes guys played.  It is normal to tighten up a rotation in a tournament game so this isn't that surprising to see.  The starters played 3, 3, 5, 13, and 9 more minutes than their averages. Had they not played quite as much, then you likely would have seen a better effort on Game 2 but there is no guarantee they would have won Game 1 if that had happened.   

[madzillagd]

Even though they won't because of "academic concerns," maybe the SCIAC should go Friday/Saturday league games.

The NESCAC goes Fri/Sat for the specific purpose of putting academics first.  Less time away from school travelling during the week.  Not sure why this would be seen as a negative academically. 

[Evolution]

Great discussion points about back to back games.  And perhaps valid about the NW teams being conditioned to go back to back.  It would be nice for the SCIAC to get the first night win in bracket play so we could have the opportunity to play the second night.  (I think Chapman WILL win tonight.)

But the logistics of the Tournament last weekend were difficult.  I am going to guess Cal Lu team was on a bus stuck on rain clogged freeways the majority of time between the two games.  Had Cal Lu won some important conference games earlier they would have been resting in their own beds.  I certainly do not want to detract from the Chapman team's success.  In fact I had lunch with four fellow SCIAC fans and called Chapman's win against CMS earlier in the the day.  My post was only about mY observation--Arik Smith, a phenomenal player, appeared to be "spent" and still played with abandon.

Back to back, Friday/Saturday would be a huge advantage for Caltech.  It would lead to an extra night sleep.  After away games, Caltech eats preordered Subway sandwiches on the bus, all the while working a set of homework problems and work through the night until class the next day.  It's quite simply an accepted way of life--no sleep on Wednesday night.  If games went back to back, Techers would get another day of sleep.

It's easy for me as a spectator to fail to fully comprehend how difficult the last month of conference play can be--for those at the top the competition grows exponentially--and for those at the bottom the disappointment is taxing.  Veteran coaches will take a day off.  When I played, I went back to back on weekend play, and it wasn't that taxing.  Why? Because nothing was expected of me academically! The SCIAC , fortunately, expects academics to be THE priority.

Can't wait for tip-off.  Calling for a SCIAC win tonight, and keeping the faith there are more to come.

[madzillagd]

Considering how rare it has been for CLU to make the championship game in the last couple decades, not sure why they don't go ahead and stay overnight near the championship site because it isn't like it happens every year.  Common practice among teams/conferences that play in these back to back end of the year tournaments. 

[Evolution]

Lango at Cal Tech is tough but doesn't get much done. Runs around, looks like he is playing really hard but doesn't make plays.

Well, respectfully disagree.  As a freshman, Lango, who enrolled at Caltech as a 17 year old, went head to head against veteran point guards and managed to place 5th in league in assists, all the while playing with freshman teammates whose conversion rates will no doubt improve with experience.  Lango also had 18 against a nationally ranked defensive CMS team late in season.

The top three SCIAC freshman players had very similar statistics, considering their positions:
Johnson   11 ppg.      6.7 rebounds.   0.3 assists
Lee.        10.3 ppg.    6.2 rebounds.   2.3 assists
Lango.      8.6 ppg     3.1 rebounds.   3.2 assists


These players are young and still developing.  Hopefully, great things are in the making.  Interesting fact that all three freshmen have better numbers than Gaffney and Pinson had as freshman:
Gaffney.    6.7 ppg.   2.9 rebounds      1.4 assists
Pinson.     7.0 ppg.    2.2 rebounds      2.2 assists

A win tonight by Chapman is what this conference needs today.

[sciacguru]

Yep, this talk is starting to irritate me.  The issue is not with the turnaround, the issue rests squarely on the shoulders of the coach.  It is up to the coach to make sure his rotation is solid so that he doesn't negativity impact the performance of his players.  There's not a lot of leeway when you win a game by 1 point to say he should have done much differently, but the reality is he played his starters a ton of minutes in Game 1 which means they didn't have much in the tank for Game 2.  That's the choice that was made (and I can't say it was wrong because maybe that's what won the game), but it wasn't the only option available.  Wade played 6 minutes in the first game after averaging 15 mpg throughout the season.  Sulker-Hall played 6 mins in Game 1 after averaging 19 mins a game during the season.  Lynott - 9 mins in Game 1, averaged 20 mpg during the year. 

If you are looking for something that impacted the legs of the players in Game 2 of the tournament, look no further than how Game 1 was coached and how many more minutes guys played.  It is normal to tighten up a rotation in a tournament game so this isn't that surprising to see.  The starters played 3, 3, 5, 13, and 9 more minutes than their averages. Had they not played quite as much, then you likely would have seen a better effort on Game 2 but there is no guarantee they would have won Game 1 if that had happened.   

During tournament time, the starters will typically play more minutes than normal.  That is a given.  And when faced with a one and done scenario, dont you think it wise to play your best players the most minutes, at the most crucial times?  Did playing the starters major minutes possibly sacrifice energy for the next game?  Probably.  But I dont think Coach Rider and his staff were concerned about Saturday night's energy level.  If they lost on Friday, it becomes a moot point.

And I think it was coaching that won that game for CLU against CMS.  Having watched CLU play several times this year, it looked as if they totally changed their O in preparation for CMS.  Coach Rider is known for his low post play and trying to pound it down low.  It looked as if they opened it up with cuts off the hi-post, that evidently opened things up for Smith (31 pts).

Considering how rare it has been for CLU to make the championship game in the last couple decades, not sure why they don't go ahead and stay overnight near the championship site because it isn't like it happens every year.  Common practice among teams/conferences that play in these back to back end of the year tournaments. 

And I would agree it has been rare for CLU or any other SCIAC team to make the championship game the last couple of decades.......since it's only been around for what? 6 years?  And I believe it becomes a cost issue, housing 25 people overnight, when it is only a 1.5-2 hr commute.  The SCIAC is very rare indeed to have such close proximity to ALL of its conference opponents, unlike the rest of the country.

[D O.C.]

If Chapman is going to rally, I'll miss it because I cannot get the Texas video feed.

[(509)Rat]

Chapman got waxed 85-70

Played great for the first 10 min or so. Then I stopped watching. Sounds like refs' stripes were green and orange...Bob Castle made a comment since he stuck around to watch the second game. He's as impartial as they come, usually even during his broadcast, so I believe him.

Whitworth got a private Cowboys stadium tour and hung out with the trail blazers since one of Logie's former Lehigh guys plays in Portland. Hopefully Chapman guys got/get to do something fun. Sounds like they got jobbed a bit tonight. Real unfortunate, especially since what little I saw was two pretty evenly matched teams.

[OxyBob]

Sounds like refs' stripes were green and orange...Bob Castle made a comment since he stuck around to watch the second game.

Love Bob Castle, voice of the Whitworthpirates. Wow, bad refereeing. Is that in addition to flying on a plane, riding on a bus, and the temperature of the gym?

If Chapman is going to rally, I'll miss it because I cannot get the Texas video feed.

Here are some audio highlights from Chapman broadcaster Herbert Morrison:

http://tinyurl.com/n68em4f

OxyBob

[dahlby]

OxyBob...Did you actually watch a Chapman game?
Almost glad that I can't open the file you posted.
I thought the Comet announcers did a good job.
The stripes did not affect the outcome of the game!

[Gray Fox]

Sounds like refs' stripes were green and orange...Bob Castle made a comment since he stuck around to watch the second game.

Love Bob Castle, voice of the Whitworthpirates. Wow, bad refereeing. Is that in addition to flying on a plane, riding on a bus, and the temperature of the gym?

If Chapman is going to rally, I'll miss it because I cannot get the Texas video feed.

Here are some audio highlights from Chapman broadcaster Herbert Morrison:

http://tinyurl.com/n68em4f

OxyBob

Well said Bob.

The temperature of the gym was quite cool in spite of the largest paid crowd in UTD history, 1,457.

The crowd was a factor in the UTD game, very loud and excited, and familiar with the team.  UTD is a very good technical and science school with a top chess team that recruits worldwide and regularly plays for the national championship. As a consequence there are many students from Asia and India.  At times I felt as if I were in the Mumbai train station.  The Comet's colors are the same as La Verne, so the should have given them some motivation.

Neither of these teams play a Princeton style offense. UTD was able to get Chapman in foul trouble, not all due to the refs, with their fast breaks.   Bob is correct in his observation that the bus ride from DFW airport and staying in a strange hotel must have had a negative effect on the Panthers.  Perhaps the proper SCIAC league champion should have made the tournament and had a better seed.  That being said, the Comets may have worn themselves out doing fast break wind sprints and Whitworth, with a couple of hours more sleep will benefit.  The Pirates had twenty-five, or so, fans at their game, but Chapman only had five or six.

I thought I had the correct local time for both games, but it was midway in the second half of the first game, when I arrived.  I will miss the game tonight.

[(509)Rat]

UTD really started pulling away once they got their transition game going. And Whitworth traditionally travels well. From the video feed it looked like they had a section not much smaller than Trinity's. For clarification, Castle never said the refs won the game for anyone, just that there was a heavy stench of home cooking on a few calls.

I've been in the Calcutta train station and hopefully your analogy isn't true. Otherwise I fully expect the ladies to be squatting over bleachers and taking care of bathroom business right there in the open tonight. I'm also sorry that you were approached by no less than 6 homeless kids begging for rupees. Tonight should be a good one. If UTD attacks Farnsworth like Trinity did and has the same success in transition as they did against Chapman, they win. I hope neither of those things happen.