MBB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[samiam]

To borrow from a different sport, Mike Ditka went 15-1 and won a Super Bowl . . . once. He's out of coaching now for a reason.

Your claim is that a one-time event in a conference that never had such an event is reason enough to crown him a good coach. Go ahead with your belief. I don't buy into it.

For me, what makes a good coach is running a solid program in which players leave having learned more about the game and having developed more skills than when they entered. Development shouldn't happen solely on self-study by the players. Also, coaches should be good game managers and understand their players. They should be good communicators and talk with the players.

Again, if you still insist Newhall is all that, I think you're not watching carefully.

I'll just assume that you haven't seen good programs before. So, I'll take your comments with a grain of salt. SCIAC devotees have such large chips on their shoulders, it's seems difficult for them to accept that one of their own might be flawed. You don't have to go out of state to look at good programs. Go to one of Kat's practices. You'll be enlightened what some good coaching and a good program looks like.

There. I've given an example from SCIAC. Hope that makes you feel better.

[fosheezie]

Katsiaficas for Heisman

[castle]

I would have to agree with sciacguru on this one.  Newhall might not be the best coach in league...but he has been with OXY for 18 years and 250 victories, that has got to stand for something.

[samiam]

Newhall might not be the best coach in league...but he has been with OXY for 18 years and 250 victories, that has got to stand for something

Who have those victories been against? An average of a tad under 14 wins per season may be how you judge a coach. I'd add, though, that player development should also be in the mix.

However, let's stick with wins alone: CalTech (x2), Redlands (x2), Whittier (x2) are usually gimmes. That puts you at 6. Home wins against PP, La Verne, Cal Lu, and CMS puts you at 10. The biannual La Sierra bashing gives you 12, and add another 2 non-league games at gimmes gives you a total of 14.

If you're happy with such a record, fine. Most Non-SCIAC folks would view 18 years of this as mediocre at best. And mediocre in the SCIAC isn't something to hang your hat on.

But I'd advise you look at the players and how they develop. How much is attributable to Newhall? What coaching decisions has he made, what tactics has he used, what lineup changes, defensive changes has he made that have you that enthralled with him? I just don't get it.

[castle]

samiam, apparently you had some bad experinces with Newhall.  I can't comment to much on player development or any off-court coaching, but I will say the Song got a lot better over his career.  Also, I recall Newhall making some real good coaching moves.  For example, couple years ago OXY at CLU; Avedian had 23 points at half and CLU lead.  Newhall put Rebasso on Avedian in the second half; Z scored only 6 points and OXY went on to win by 3.

I also don't agree that Redlands and Whittier; or home games agianst PP, CMS, CLU are gimmmies.  I am not enthralled with Newhall's coaching; just think that he is a decent coach.  I would like to see you win at Buena Vista in March?

[Old Fighting Scot]

If redlands is not a gimme this year, i hate to see the talent of the team they beat....

[castle]

This Redlands could be called gimmies, but not every year.  OXY beat RU by 4, and lost to RU by 12 last year...

[Old Fighting Scot]

i'll give you that castle.  i cant believe that redlands is this bad every year, and besides i have only seen them in one full game, and a half of another....

[samiam]

Good points, castle. Perhaps I was too adamant about Newhall. "Decent" may be a good term for him. I've definitely seen worse.

I think what's frustrating for me as a basketball fan (not an Oxy fan) is watching the potential of the frontcourt. These guys are quite good. I think some "slightly-better-than-decent" coaching would do wonders. I think they would wind up in Buena Vista in 2006.

I might also have been too harsh about Whittier . . . well, maybe in some years. However, I do disagree with most here about Redlands. While they are not at the CalTech level, you can't run that type of offense without playing solid defense. They've been 5-9, 6-8, and 5-9 in SCIAC play the last three seasons. If you lose to them, it's probably because you have problems making layups. And this year? Talk about coaching disasters: if you don't have the personnel for your program, maybe you should change the program or style. That's more philosophical rather than cut and dry, I know. But sheesh. A program predicated on the quick 3-pointer without any 3-point shooters? Yikes.

Sorry for causing any ill-will on the board. I'll try to be more positive next time.

[Gregory Sager]

I think what's frustrating for me as a basketball fan (not an Oxy fan) is watching the potential of the frontcourt. These guys are quite good. I think some "slightly-better-than-decent" coaching would do wonders. I think they would wind up in Buena Vista in 2006.

It's not likely that Buena Vista will be hosting a sectional this season. The Beavers graduated their top six scorers from last season; the two leading scorers on this year's team (which is 1-3 at this early juncture) are freshmen, Andre Wagner and Brian Fogleman. The Beavers are a strong enough program that the cliche "reload, not rebuild" is an apt one for them. Still, my guess is that it's far more likely that, in the event a SCIAC team manages to get past Puget Sound (the presumptive NWC rep) in the opening weekend, it'll have to go to the Twin Cities (St. Thomas) or Waverly, IA (Wartburg) for the westernmost sectional.

Sorry for causing any ill-will on the board. I'll try to be more positive next time.

Aw, c'mon. I was enjoying not being the villain on this board for a change. 

[samiam]

Aw, c'mon. I was enjoying not being the villain on this board for a change.

You can keep the role. The perks aren't worth the trouble.

I imagine I'll be villainous again once I see more ball in January. Then I'll be contrite, then villainous, then contrite.

I should probably see a therapist.

[castle]

CMS has a big weekend up in the Northwest.

CMS at George Fox (5-1) on Friday.  CMS at Pacific on Saturday - Lowery has Pacific at 4-2 (they went 5-20 last year).  SCIAC can help SCIAC with a win or two.

[diehardfan]

Sorry for causing any ill-will on the board. I'll try to be more positive next time.

Aw, c'mon. I was enjoying not being the villain on this board for a change. 

As a Cal Tech fan, I feel pretty safe from being a villain 

[WestCoastWhiner]

SamIAmHeadedtoTherapyBecuaseICantGetPastBeingCutfromOxy'sJVTeam,

Bro, glad you recognize your problem.  Therapy may help.   Sometimes in life you have to let things go.  If you went to Oxy undoubtedly you can look forward to other things in your life. 

But leave Newhall alone.  The coaching staff at Oxy is top notch.  Hennacy & Hall have won pretty much everywhere they have gone, including Oxy.  Newhall is the captain of the ship and is a well-regarded coach.  As SCIAC fans we all owe that staff kudos for helping us all with an Elite 8 run, a great game against UNLV, beating CS Fullerton, competing well against Utah State and generally playing as good against non-conference opponents as anyone in the conference. 

Can't develop players?  You have to be kidding me.  Don't make me rattle off names.   Every SCIAC school has guys who come in and for one reason or another, don't make it in the programs.  Usually it is more mental than anything else.  Look at the cat from CMS who walked out on his team this year.  Newhall's problem has never been coaching or player development.  In both of those areas he is as good as anyone.  His problem is generally our conference's problem, tough to recruit good enough ballers to make real headway in the post-season.   Newhall over the years has ally has 1, maybe two studs, then a bunch of guys who they coach something out of - but are outmatched against their counterparts at real DIII powers.  If he could get 3 or 4 studs, like Kats usually does, and less bozos like you, then we would see something special at the Rock.  Similarly, if Kats could get 1 or 2 more studs on top of his usual 3 or 4, I think he could make a deep run.  He is certainly as good of a game coach as you'll find in DIII.



   

[scandihoovian]

As a Cal Tech fan, I feel pretty safe from being a villain 

Shoot - I thought you'd pledged your allegiance to Cal Lu (we're young this year and could use the support  )

Big game for the Kingsmen tomorrow night vs. Westmont.  Final matchup vs. the evil empire from Montecito in Boston Garden West.